Scarburg Meadhall Discussion Thread

[littlemanpoet]

A few points about this harsh winter.

It's the Fourth Age, the age of humans. No dark lord is to blame for it.

There is no human caused reason for a harsh winter, the technology is not available.

It can only come about by natural causes.

Historically, harsh winters were caused by volcanic explosions. Krakatoa comes to mind; so, to my mind, and would have to be our template. If so, then the winter would not be limited to winter months, but would, depending upon the size of the volcanic eruption, last well into spring, maybe have started the previous summer, and could within reason last longer than a year.

Thus, starvation would be the killer, and frostbite might or might not be an issue. All that would be needed is for temperatures to remain below that necessary for crops to grow.

This means that the sun would be dimmed and ash would have filled the sky for long periods, and would rain down on everything.

If we want a truly harsh winter, this seems like the only way to have it happen. Otherwise, all we could really, reasonably conjecture would be a tough winter that would not entail frostbite, starvation, or anything severe.

The only alternative to this would be a mini-ice age, which lasts centuries; I don't think we want to go there.

[Nogrod]

Agreed on not wishing to have a mini ice-age... let's keep this within some boundaries.

Originally Posted by littlemanpoet

Historically, harsh winters were caused by volcanic explosions. Krakatoa comes to mind; so, to my mind, and would have to be our template. If so, then the winter would not be limited to winter months, but would, depending upon the size of the volcanic eruption, last well into spring, maybe have started the previous summer, and could within reason last longer than a year.

Thus, starvation would be the killer, and frostbite might or might not be an issue. All that would be needed is for temperatures to remain below that necessary for crops to grow.

I'm fine with a volcanic eruption somewhere, but I do think we might get away from the cause of the hardship with even less dramatic events.

Like let's say the spring (one year before we start the writing) was just very late. This kind of things happen every now and then. And when people finally got into sowing there was a sudden "back-winter" like we call it here in Finland killing all the crops. So they'd have very thin supplies for the next winter (maybe they managed to grow little something during the late summer) - which would then turn out to be a lot more severe winters are normally. Also those things just happen to happen every now and then. I remember in late 80's there was a winter in Finland when the temperature stayed below -30C for over two months (-22F).

So the unhappy combination of frostbited crops in the summer and severe winter would produce enough hardship - people who are not well nourished tend to be weaker against extreme cold as well.

And they would have fex. needed to have made a dramatic decision whether to eat their (already very low supplies of) seed grain during the winter to survive...

[Galadriel55]

I agree that we don't even need a volcanic eruption, just a chain of unfortunate events. A late spring frost that killed half the crops (is that the "back-winter"? We call it "freezeover" in Russian ). A hailstorm just before harvest that brought down the other half. The winter started early - the ground froze deep before the snow fell, (which would reflect on the success of next spring's crops), and any late crops were lost. Then, a couple/few weeks later, there was a series of large snowstorms that effectively buried the residents of the Mead Hall and isolated them from the rest of the world, as the roads became unpassable (such events happen here almost every winter - we have freezing temperatures way before snow, and then all of a sudden the snow banks become quite high in a matter of a week). Perhaps we could talk about men trying to brave the roads to bring food from elsewhere, but no wagons could be brought in the snow (dogsleds not invented in Rohan yet?), so the results were minimal. Firewood could also be an issue; I don't remember the exact layout of the land around the Hall, but wasn't the wood bit farther away than is convenient? Also, the local lords would be heavily involved; from what I gather, any grain that the Hall has would have been collected as taxes from the lords, right? The hall itself doesn't do farming. The lords' people also suffered, and the lords could be blaming the Eorl for stealing their food and not helping [enough] during a time when his help was needed.

[Folwren]

I just did a little research to see what needs to be added to our timeline.

It looks like Eodwine returned to Scarburg at the end of the December/early January.

Saeryn will have her delivery in May.

Nogrod, when do you think Athanar will leave the hall?

What other events need to go on the timeline? We could note Scyld's departure, just to have it there for future reference, if need be.

[littlemanpoet]

Originally Posted by Folwren

It looks like Eodwine returned to Scarburg at the end of the December/early January.

Saeryn will have her delivery in May.

Saeryn gave birth in May, FA 16. Having just scanned about 25 pages of rpg last night, of that I am sure. :P

I kinda like "Hard Winters" too. Plain and simple. And evocative.

[Mithalwen]

So the reboot will be early spring of FA20? If I recycle Elfthain, and I would like to I think since he is on the periphary of my private fanfic and I know him well and like him - though I wouldn't have chosen to write a male of that age otherwise - he would be 17 I think if I honour the dates of his previous appearance at the Edoras mead hall and Darker Days.... given his background I imagine he would be whatever the Rohirric equivalent of a esquire would be...scutifer? shieldbearer? arrowfodder? - a young man of good standing attached to a noble household to learn the knightly trade Are there any precedents in this version for such things? I don't want to tie myself in to many knots but it would be nice not to be too discordant with what has gone before.

He could either be a new arrival having started elsewhere - though whether that would be "normal" like medical student rotations or exceptional I don't know or given the time frame he could have been there since 14..

If he would be a nuisance I will come up with someone else..

[Folwren]

Oh! That would be amazing, Mith! Javan (my character) is about 18 now and I'd love to have someone closer to his age. The other boys in the game are four or five years younger than Javan, I think.

[piosenniel]

Just an FYI for the new players in this extension from the Meadhall:

For the new players who have joined in the discussion on this thread --

Use this short Character Bio form, please…

Inziladun – place your character bio(s) on the new RPG Discussion thread when they’re done

Mithalwen – place your character bio(s) on the new RPG Discussion thread when they’re done

Snowdog – place your character bio(s) on the new RPG Discussion thread when they’re done

~*~ Thanks! -- Pio

[piosenniel]

So.... now the RPG and its Discussion Thread are titled: Hard Winters

is the icon for both the threads - unless you want to change it

[littlemanpoet]

Originally Posted by Mithalwen

given his background I imagine he would be whatever the Rohirric equivalent of a esquire would be...scutifer? shieldbearer? arrowfodder?

Shield-bearer would be most appropriate for the Eorlingas. What's scutifer?
Arrowfodder? I hope not - you want him to live, right?

Now that I've read much of the rpg, I get it why Firefoot was having some difficulty with the time jump. Now I am too: Scyld and Rowenna had a plotline and to just skip over it seems difficult at best.

I wonder if we need to spin it off into a separate rpg, or outline the events? Any thoughts? For those who have not carefully read the Scyld-Rowenna exchanges, this involves them teaming up to figure out who the dead body in the smoke-hut was, and how he died.

[Thinlómien]

Just a quick note as I'm abroad and just online on my phone - I'll update my bios on Tuesday once I'm back in Finland and have consulted Nogrod about Cnebba and Modtryth etc. I might even write a post then!

Firefoot - I'd love some interaction with Leof and Wilheard! I think Wilheard will need a friend, too, after having lost his brother (poor boy), but I'll get back to you about the details next week.

PS. Everything looking nice and busy here!

[Mithalwen]

Scutifer is of similar etymology to Esquire also meaning shield bearer I found it when looking for a less French alternative to Esquire but it is not unfrench enough really being so latinate... Armiger (armour bearer, senior esquire) has the same problem. Of course it may not be appropriate to translate too closely the chivalric tradition but the Rohirrim clearly trained ... some may be born fighters but soldiers have to be made.

And yes I want him to live, I am fairly hopefuk he will get to grow old on his beloved farm eventually but I don't know so much what happens to him in the meantime.

[Firefoot]

Originally Posted by littlemanpoet

Now that I've read much of the rpg, I get it why Firefoot was having some difficulty with the time jump. Now I am too: Scyld and Rowenna had a plotline and to just skip over it seems difficult at best.

I wonder if we need to spin it off into a separate rpg, or outline the events? Any thoughts? For those who have not carefully read the Scyld-Rowenna exchanges, this involves them teaming up to figure out who the dead body in the smoke-hut was, and how he died.

I feel better knowing at least one person doesn't think I was just being whiny about the time jump.

Anyway, my current thought process was pretty much to just drop that plotline - they aren't able to find anything out and it stays a mystery. As I wrote in my most recent post, Scyld tries to follow up, gets scared of what fingers get pointed his way, and decides to leave. He'll go first to Dol Amroth and obtain some sort of letter of pardon from Linduial to get his name cleared, maybe spend some time there, then go track down his family, and finally after five years now be returning to the hall. I think he might need to acquire some kind of trade in that amount of time as well - right now he has an odd collection of talents but nothing that would really earn him a living, which seems problematic. If anyone who has a little more knowledge about the culture has thoughts, I'd appreciate it. Alternately, if his current skill set would be sufficient to put him to some use in the Hall, that would be cool too but I have no idea what sort of role that would be.

Any of this can change though.

On a separate note, with all these young men running around I think it might be a really good time to introduce Leof's now 18 year old sister...

[Folwren]

I didn't know Leof had a sister! Sounds like fun.

I was thinking it's about time Thornden found himself a wife. He might never marry, though, because he'd be one to fall slowly in love, and he hasn't shown any sign of liking any of the girls currently at the Hall.

For the record, I didn't think you were being whiny about it, Firefoot.

K, Lommy, what happened to Wilheard's brother? Wilheard and Wulfric were Athanar's sons, right? I know there was some discussion of them above that I missed.

[Firefoot]

Since G55's posts jump significantly in time, I attached the co-written Scyld and Rowenna post onto the end of my last Scyld post to keep the timeline in order.

[Nogrod]

I hope you got it via PM lmp as I forgot to click the "get read receipt" -button (without it I always ponder whether I managed to send something or not).

And thanks for the kind words - it was fun to think over and write...

[littlemanpoet]

I got it. I'll take some time with it. But I need to have it done by Friday's end, I think. Much to do after that!

[littlemanpoet]

Originally Posted by Firefoot

Since G55's posts jump significantly in time, I attached the co-written Scyld and Rowenna post onto the end of my last Scyld post to keep the timeline in order.

Perhaps, Firefoot, you could add a link to your post so people could click and go?

[Firefoot]

Originally Posted by littlemanpoet

Perhaps, Firefoot, you could add a link to your post so people could click and go?

Post here.