Tol-in-Guarhoth CIX - Ten Year Anniversary Game: Dead Thread

[A Little Green]

I agree that in general it makes more sense to check lynches than Night kills. So.. Nog? I think he's seemed quite innocent this far, but the village doesn't seem to share my view on the matter - and anyway if I remember correctly he was the one they were mostly requesting that we'd check. Nog suggested checking phantom which I'm also fine with. I think he, too, is more likely to be an ordo - but then, I think he's better at fooling me than Nog is. Also feel free to check me if you think that will help shed light on things, though *spoiler alert* I'm boring ungifted prey. Checking Rune or Agan seems a bit fruitless at this point, too.

[Nogrod]

I think we should base our decisions on the foreseeable information-value of the one checked rather than an abstract rule or what some of the villagers want us to do. (it was, I think, mainly Boro who made it his mission yesterDay to hammer it home in several posts that we here should check me - and I have reasons to believe tp and Boro have things going on together: you can find some from this thread - I'll be back with them later as now I'm needing to be off)

Also. Our chances of getting information through during normal Days is pretty small - and everything can be twisted by active wolves down there. There is just too much room for interpretation with our extra-votes to work properly as a channel of information.

But when we hopefully get a visitor here - hopefully somewhat later though - then we should be able to give her/him as much and as useful information we can.

[the phantom]

Originally Posted by Nog

Not to mention tp's obvious reluctance to be checked...

I'm not reluctant. Rather, I adamantly refuse to be checked.

(1) I'm an Ordo, and I know I'm an Ordo, and any Wolves that may be on this thread probably think I'm an Ordo. Green seems to think me innocent. I think Agan does too. Checking me would be of little value here.
(2) The Living are highly unlikely to request my identity after the events of yesterday. They'll want Nog and Green both before me. Lommy, Boro, Mac, etc.- there will be enough of them that will write me off as an Ordo.
(3) Look at the lynch I was involved with on the first day. All that I did was drive the Nog-bus which saved Agan, who turned out to be THE HUNTER! It's not as if any Wolfish info can be gathered from the fact that I killed Nog and saved Agan.

So why on earth do you wish to gather information that is both useless and unlikely to be asked for? The very idea of pushing for a check of my identity is preposterous. If you are not a Wolf, then you will have some serious explaining to do after the game, because you are deliberately trying to waste our Night ability. Similar to the way that you, while alive, were deliberately trying to stand in the way of setting up a system for the Dead to pass valuable info to the Living. Now you're trying to throw a wrench into the system from the Dead Thread.

[the phantom]

There are two options, Green and Nog.

Rune and Agan- what is your opinion on the matter?

Should we consider the prospect of redundant information? In other words, there isn't a point to checking someone that the Seer has already checked. Thus if Legate is the Seer then Nerwen, Lommy, and Mith are cleared and Green is already dreamed guilty, thus Nog is the obvious choice for our power.

But if the Seer is someone else and Green has not been checked then she may be the best choice.

[A Little Green]

Originally Posted by phantom

I'm not reluctant. Rather, I adamantly refuse to be checked.

Darling, you do realise that isn't how it works. The rest of us are a majority, and so technically if we decided to check you we could, regardless of whether you adamantly refused it or not.

Originally Posted by phantom

(1) I'm an Ordo, and I know I'm an Ordo, and any Wolves that may be on this thread probably think I'm an Ordo. Green seems to think me innocent. I think Agan does too. Checking me would be of little value here.
(2) The Living are highly unlikely to request my identity after the events of yesterday. They'll want Nog and Green both before me. Lommy, Boro, Mac, etc.- there will be enough of them that will write me off as an Ordo.
(3) Look at the lynch I was involved with on the first day. All that I did was drive the Nog-bus which saved Agan, who turned out to be THE HUNTER! It's not as if any Wolfish info can be gathered from the fact that I killed Nog and saved Agan.

I doubt anyone (except maybe Boro) is "writing you off as an innocent" just yet. I'm certainly not. All I said was that I think it's more likely you're innocent. Apart from what read I can get from your posting, it is also true (though this is getting quite meta and therefore not all that reliable) that you are a fairly likely early dream for the Seer, and if the Seer dreamed you it's fairly likely you're not a wolf since we haven't seen anyone claim the contrary. So - I'm guessing you're innocent but I don't trust you yet.

Originally Posted by phantom

So why on earth do you wish to gather information that is both useless and unlikely to be asked for? The very idea of pushing for a check of my identity is preposterous. If you are not a Wolf, then you will have some serious explaining to do after the game, because you are deliberately trying to waste our Night ability. Similar to the way that you, while alive, were deliberately trying to stand in the way of setting up a system for the Dead to pass valuable info to the Living. Now you're trying to throw a wrench into the system from the Dead Thread.

That said, you do have to allow for differences of opinion about what is useful/likely to work/whatever. Not everyone who disagrees with you is a wolf. Also, don't be so surprised we don't trust you - in a game like this we'd be barking mad not to be wary of everyone who isn't a known innocent, and we all know you're clever enough to act as innocently as you're now doing regardless of your role. There. Enough flattery to keep you happy?

As for toNight's vote, I'd prefer Nogrod over myself since I know I'm an ordo and thus checking me definitely won't give us a wolf (though I'm not convinced checking Nog will, either). I do realise the rest of you can't know that, so if you think it's worth your while then by all means check me. Also Legate isn't the Seer, so I'd advise against basing too many schemes on that assumption.

[A Little Green]

Originally Posted by Runne

It is of course completely true that Mr. P. Has a strategic advantage, but is this really reason enough for him to be tonight’s choice? In fact it strikes me as a bit odd that you put so much weight into this advantage... After the rest of us can just do the talking when he is not around, and (hopefully) come to some agreement, leaving TP powerless. Or, if it is all about the strategic advantage (Which will only be an advantage, until a substantial amount of North Americans have been butchered), we could decide to screw up our lives and daily routines by staying up.

Well, I don't know about the rest of you but I'm definitely not staying up until deadline! Also, it's true that the "advantage" of being the only one around at deadline isn't all that significant. If the rest of us have already voted, there isn't much the last person can do to sway the whole thing. And even if there was, I don't see a way it could be done without him revealing his cards at the same time, and thus us knowing his alignment wouldn't prevent it. Does that make sense? It made sense in my head but I'm not sure it's understandable to anyone else.


EDIT: x-ed with Agan

[the phantom]

Originally Posted by Green

Darling, you do realise that isn't how it works. The rest of us are a majority, and so technically if we decided to check you we could, regardless of whether you adamantly refused it or not.

What I mean is, I will never admit that it might be a viable idea to check my identity (the way you have admitted it about yourself).

You recognize the tactical situation and that a check of you is a realistic possibility, but that is not the case with me. You may want to check me, you may feel better checking me, but talking about it like it's something we're really going to do is, I insist, very suspicious. Given the Day 1 voting, the fact I was Night-killed, and the presence of a lynch victim and Hunter victim, I am not a real option except as a fruitless distraction.

Originally Posted by Green

Also Legate isn't the Seer, so I'd advise against basing too many schemes on that assumption.

Heh heh, well of course you think he isn't since he called you a Wolf.

Who is the Seer, then? Boro? (dreams possibly Rikae, Shasta, Lommy, Legate)

Or someone just laying low and reluctant to give info....

[the phantom]

Originally Posted by Agan

and whatever it means, the wolves didn't react to them (or at least the suspicion I'd garnered weighed more than my potential giftedness)

Yeah, I was a bit worried about you overnight- afraid you may have been a Seer that over did things. I might've actually been able to spot you as a Hunter if it weren't for the fact that I'm unsuited for such a role (I would've done everything possible to avoid using my power, where as you embraced the opportunity to take a shot).

And really the fact they didn't gun for you- that makes me worried about the village, because the Rune kill just didn't make any sense to me. Basically, I'm worried that the Seer will hide quite well but will be killed nonetheless because the pack won't make a logical kill, if you follow...

Anyway, you're the one with the big threatening weapons, so I'd say you'll probably have the final say on our check. Anyone care to shop around for other Seer candidates so that we can avoid redundant information if possible? I can't undertake such a thing until later today.

[Rune Son of Bjarne]

Originally Posted by Noggins

My top candidate would be the phantom. Not only because I think finding out his alignment could really shed some light to some other people's roles, but also just because of our situation here: with tp sitting as the only American to whom the DL is an easy thing and able to make the last word (if we Europeans are already sleeping - which I really intend to do more often from now on) we should really know what he is up to. I mean if he is a wolf we'd need to secure a two-vote lead to anyone we wish to gain our extra-vote / whom to check before going to sleep.

It is of course completely true that Mr. P. Has a strategic advantage, but is this really reason enough for him to be tonight’s choice? In fact it strikes me as a bit odd that you put so much weight into this advantage... After the rest of us can just do the talking when he is not around, and (hopefully) come to some agreement, leaving TP powerless. Or, if it is all about the strategic advantage (Which will only be an advantage, until a substantial amount of North Americans have been butchered), we could decide to screw up our lives and daily routines by staying up.

Personally I would much rather stick to picking a non-wolf kill, at least in the beginning. Though TP and Noggins are two people I would normally dream of the first were I the seer, maybe it is correct that getting to know their true identities, might not yield enough additional information.

Anyways, I am mostly inclined to vote for Greenie, or perhaps Nogrod.

[Aganzir]

I'm also inclined to vote for Greenie or Nog.

I'm obviously curious about Greenie because my main reason for suspecting her wasn't based on anything she said (she was the perfect voice of reason most of the time) but how she said it, and she made me uneasy even before Legate started talking about her. Then again I always suspect her, as she kindly reminded me when I woke up in the morning.

I wasn't particularly suspicious of Nog (I kind of saw where he was coming from when he voted for me on DAY 1, and it was really my own fault for not specifying I liked his post even though I disagreed with a lot of his ideas because the way he explained them, they had merit, so it really looked like buddying up) but his tirade for checking the phantom could also be a wolf's clever counter attack.

I was freely dropping gifted hints during my short and eventful life, and whatever it means, the wolves didn't react to them (or at least the suspicion I'd garnered weighed more than my potential giftedness). I knew phantom picked up on them, and Boro did too, even if I'm not sure when. The fact that he brought it up yesterday in the thread when I was about to be lynched makes me feel better about him because that's something he didn't have to do. Therefore I don't buy Nog's worry about his and phantom's weird relationship (I kind of wish they were lovers though, they'd be the couple we've been waiting all our life ).

So yeah, I'm up for either. (Only after dinner though.)