Middle-earth What-ifs

[Faramir Jones]

I recall your quote from UT, Zigûr, and agree that the separation of Gondor and Arnor might have begun with Meneldil's attitude, which later hardened into a tradition. I believe that the earlier attitude you quoted was intensified by the disaster of the Gladden Fields, when Isildur and his 3 eldest sons died, his youngest son Valandil being his successor, though a minor.

Isildur was accepted by his nephew as overlord, as High King of the Dúnedain; but I don't believe that Meneldil would have accepted the same relationship from a much younger cousin unable to rule. There is an interesting note that Meneldil was the last Man born in Númenor before the Downfall; so I've no doubt he was made much of in his early years, as a sign of promise for the future. Such a person would not have accepted a younger cousin as overlord. Now, if Isildur had survived, lived to a ripe old age, and had then been succeeded by his eldest son...

[Zigûr]

Originally Posted by Faramir Jones

There is an interesting note that Meneldil was the last Man born in Númenor before the Downfall; so I've no doubt he was made much of in his early years, as a sign of promise for the future.

That's a good point. I've always liked the idea of Meneldil as the last Man born in Númenor. Weirdly enough, he was born the year before Eru destroyed Númenor. No one in the entire island had children for several months to a year? Or does it mean that he was the youngest survivor of Númenor?

It's interesting to note in general that the position of High King seems to have been unclaimed by the line of Isildur after his death. Regarding Isildur surviving, the quote about Meneldil seems to suggest that he was eager to be managing his own affairs (and Gondor's) even when he had every reason to assume Isildur's continued survival.

[Belegorn]

The Dúnedain were slow to reproduce and perhaps events on the island stayed the birth of children to some extent as Elves are known to do when they are engaged in conflict. Meneldil could certainly have been the youngest survivor of Númenor because Isildur too was born in Númenor though an older man. A great portion of the Dúnedain were probably born in Númenor that were still around 122-124 years later till Isildur's death. I just think that statement means he was the youngest of the survivors of Númenor.

I think it is a good point that the view of the South toward the North may have extended almost from the beginning of the 3rd Age. In Gondor the Dúnedain did look askance at what they saw as a "small thing" in Arthedain. I mentioned Eärnil was one of the few who was of a different view "I do not foget the loyalty of Arnor, no deny our kinship, nor wish that the realms of Elendil should be estranged." [Gondor and the Heirs of Anárion] As great a captain as he was Eärnil could not even bring himself to bring aid to Arthedain for almost 30 years when it collapsed.