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10-07-2015, 07:11 PM
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#1 | |
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Shade of Carn Dûm
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Tol Morwen
Posts: 369
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I was wondering (rereading Gilfanon's Tale) - are Nuin, Ermon, and Elmir still valid in the later mythology - are they "canon"? I find the story (or at least the fragments of it that were actually written) pretty intriguing...but that's not the point - there is nothing contradicting the later writings in the general outline of the story (of course, it would still need revisions).
What I find very alluring about the said characters is that Nuin (if you don't count Morwë and Nurwë and Eöl according to some versions of the story of Maeglin) is the only Avarin Elf mentioned by name anywhere - and he actually plays a pretty large role in the Awakening of Men. Which brings me to another point - Ermon and Elmir are also (as in the matter of Nuin) the ONLY unbegotten Men ever named in Tolkien's writings. Maybe there is a place for at least some of the concepts of the story in our revision. What are the others' thoughts on the matter? P.S. Yes, and what about Tareg the Ilkorin and Tu (Túvo)?
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Last edited by Arvegil145; 10-07-2015 at 07:29 PM. |
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10-08-2015, 12:01 PM
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#2 |
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King's Writer
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 1,721
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I thinkt that this story was skipt by Tolkien. There is no trace of it found in Adanel's Tale nor in Myths Transformed Text II. Thus Ermon and Elmir were lost, which is good since these names are to much bound into northern Mythology.
Nuin on the other hand left, may be some, traces as we knew that men had early in thier history contact to Elves (Avari, see MT Text II). The same could be said about Tu (Túvo) since in GA §§79-80 we here about Morgoth dealings with Men and are told that 'his spies were watchful, and tidings soon came to him of the arising of Men. ... this desgin was slow to ripen, ... Morgoth ... came back to Angband, leaving behind at that time but few servants, and those of less might and cunning.' Tu feels for me much like one of these spies and / or servant of less might and cunning. Respectfully Findegil |
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08-17-2017, 02:30 PM
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#3 |
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Quentingolmo
Join Date: Aug 2017
Posts: 525
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Findegil, since you have the best understanding of the docs, could you lay out the final chapter outline, but indicating where work is finished and still needs to be done? This could be really helpful to see what areas need most attention.
Last edited by ArcusCalion; 08-20-2017 at 01:37 PM. |
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08-18-2017, 11:42 AM
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#4 | |
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King's Writer
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 1,721
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I wouldn’t say that I have the documents. But at least I try to have an overview.
Okay, here comes the list of chapters with remarks of what was done on them. I have shortened the list to full chapters. The sub-chapters are easily found in the chapter structure earlier in this thread and the status of the sub-chapters of one full chapter is normally the same. The following status classes are used: Untouched: Chapter is foreseen in the structure, but nothing more is done about it. Priv. Draft: Compilation of text done by one member, not yet in a state ready for group discussion Draft: Compilation of text done by one member, ready for group discussion Work in progress: Discussed in the Forum but not yet deemed finished by the members OR once deemed finished but known to be in need of substantial revision Semi-finished: finished but with small points raised by new sources or new input that must be discussed Finished: Done and all members are still happy with the result Quote:
Respectfully Findegil Last edited by Findegil; 09-13-2017 at 02:56 PM. Reason: Updated due to new chapters under discussion. |
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08-18-2017, 02:40 PM
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#5 |
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Quentingolmo
Join Date: Aug 2017
Posts: 525
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This is extremely helpful thank you so much!
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09-26-2017, 06:17 PM
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#6 | |
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Quentingolmo
Join Date: Aug 2017
Posts: 525
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Volumes 2 and 3
So ever since I finished that whole bunch of drafts (phew) I have been tinkering away at parts 2 and 3 of this grand work, trying to figure out a suitable outline. I figure I might as well post it up here, and see what people think of it.
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09-26-2017, 07:39 PM
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#7 |
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Wight
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 121
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A few questions:
1) I cannot find "6 Of Eldamar and the Princes of the Eldalie Draft" anywhere and the only topic related to "7 Of the Darkening of Valinor: Of Finwë and Míriel Semi-finished" is http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showthread.php?t=4396 last updated in 2004. Is the latest text for this only on the private forum? 2) Why was the Darkening of Valinor split up into multiple main chapters (7-10) while other chapters have sub-chapters (i.e. 12: Of the Flight of the Noldor is made up of sub-chapters "Of the Speech of Fëanor upon Túna" and "Of the first Kin-slaying and the Doom of the Noldor")? It seems inconsistent. 3) Is "Athrabeth Finrod ah Andreth" going to be placed between chapters 21 and 22 of the Quenta itself? I think it makes sense to embed the Great Tales into the Quenta itself, but the Athrabeth should be in a separate section isolated from the Quenta. On a tangent: The Athrabeth is one of my favorite writings by Tolkien, and I absolutely think it should be included. 4) "Óssanwë Kenta": I am not familiar with this. Where is it from? I agree that it is not clear what to include in Volume II and how to organize it. I will give it some thought and reply soon. |
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02-24-2018, 07:27 PM
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#8 |
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Seeker of the Straight Path
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: a hidden fastness in Big Valley nor cal
Posts: 1,680
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An amzing thing findegil n co.
Re round world The trouble was 2 fold if I recall. 1 - Tolkien never finalized the chronology. 2- the vast bulk of the mythology is otherwise cohesive and it was part if it forever. I honestly no longer recall whether JRRT flipped back or not and my Tolkien library is not in Hawaii with me. But of course. .if the group energy is going that way.... But having been a FE project for so long...17 years...(deep bow) it would be a bit of shame to not see it set sail properly. Even if Rôg is on board. Lol. I would urge a finalization with flat middle earth for pre atalantë and then when complete ...(a literary smooth reading version was envisioned). My personal dilemma is that I think the optimum solution for a Translations from the Elvish style super Silm is along lines of annotated Hobbit. Core 99 silm ...huge folio book...with older lost tales variants below...later variants above. And old era of annals on the sides and final era later. If I get a windfall or grab a couple volumes of used HBs at a time I could cut n paste it to a folio. Let all the major variants share a huge spread of a dual page. I could see setting up a new team for that as a side forum ...and after some mock ups we send them to Annotted CJRT insider ...complete with tales of the BD exploits as the groundwork...and see if Anderson likes it enough to go pitch it to CJRT. But as for all the layout here...its amazing. An exploratory group ...looking into a somewhat integrated style or at least good transitions esp between hyper condensed or note fragments to full blown revised sort of lurches. And whether to go for a stylistic revision/reader version at all...of course.
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The dwindling Men of the West would often sit up late into the night exchanging lore & wisdom such as they still possessed that they should not fall back into the mean estate of those who never knew or indeed rebelled against the Light.
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