Tom Bombadil & Jack of Beanstalk Fame - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Inziladun · 04-12-2017, 10:29 AM

Though there may be parallels, with the lack (as far as I Know) of any evidence of conscious drawing on the "Jack" tale, I'm calling it coincidence.

Balfrog · 05-09-2017, 08:11 PM

Inziladun

Yes it could be coincidence. Or it could be a layering of deeper mythology. As promised. Ms. Seth's latest essay offers more 'coincidental links':

https://priyasethtolkienfan.wordpres...lorful-pair-4/

(viii) The miller and the farmer from Sarehole – being named as Ogres by the Tolkien boys – and the miller being covered in bone-dust.
(ix) Farmer Magott having etymological links to 'Goemagot' – a British Giant – pointed out by M. Hooker
(x) Farmer Maggot being cast with an ogre-like personality in an early draft per M. Hooker.
(xi) The name Bamfurlong – having etymological linkage to a long field of beanstalks – perhaps with the intention of representing one tangled-up giant one.

Eleven is kind of getting up there for the whole affair being pure coincidence. Still – as in all these matters – when it's not clearly spelled out by Tolkien – it's always conjectural. In this case though, I hark back to one of Tolkien's comments per Letter #180:

"Having set myself a task, ... being precisely to restore to the English an epic tradition and present them with a mythology of their own ...”.

I have to wonder which “epic tradition” and what exactly did he want to “restore”? Did he mean Arthurian myth – which are not entirely native English stories?

I'm not so sure why the tale of the Beanstalk and 'Jack' – as Ms. Seth states being “a quintessential part of traditional English folklore” - would have been excluded from LotR, especially as so much other myth/folklore from our world wasn't!

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Email this Page
Display Modes
Switch to Linear Mode Hybrid Mode Switch to Threaded Mode

04-12-2017, 10:29 AM	#1
Inziladun Gruesome Spectre Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Heaven's doorstep Posts: 8,039	Though there may be parallels, with the lack (as far as I Know) of any evidence of conscious drawing on the "Jack" tale, I'm calling it coincidence. __________________ Music alone proves the existence of God.

05-09-2017, 08:11 PM	#2
Balfrog Haunting Spirit Join Date: Nov 2014 Posts: 87	Inziladun Yes it could be coincidence. Or it could be a layering of deeper mythology. As promised. Ms. Seth's latest essay offers more 'coincidental links': https://priyasethtolkienfan.wordpres...lorful-pair-4/ (viii) The miller and the farmer from Sarehole – being named as Ogres by the Tolkien boys – and the miller being covered in bone-dust. (ix) Farmer Magott having etymological links to 'Goemagot' – a British Giant – pointed out by M. Hooker (x) Farmer Maggot being cast with an ogre-like personality in an early draft per M. Hooker. (xi) The name Bamfurlong – having etymological linkage to a long field of beanstalks – perhaps with the intention of representing one tangled-up giant one. Eleven is kind of getting up there for the whole affair being pure coincidence. Still – as in all these matters – when it's not clearly spelled out by Tolkien – it's always conjectural. In this case though, I hark back to one of Tolkien's comments per Letter #180: "Having set myself a task, ... being precisely to restore to the English an epic tradition and present them with a mythology of their own ...”. I have to wonder which “epic tradition” and what exactly did he want to “restore”? Did he mean Arthurian myth – which are not entirely native English stories? I'm not so sure why the tale of the Beanstalk and 'Jack' – as Ms. Seth states being “a quintessential part of traditional English folklore” - would have been excluded from LotR, especially as so much other myth/folklore from our world wasn't!