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#1 | |
Flame of the Ainulindalë
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If there was only the EW on D1 the D1 was mostly futile as there is no relations to read - as there were none. But if there was a wolf and an EW, then it becomes at least theoretically possible to find something. I asked about it because I wanted to know whether we could actually KNOW it or whether we could only think it probable. I mean if N2 kill is impossible with a wolf turned only on that very same Night, then it is a proven thing there was a wolf on D1 in the game (as there was a confirmed kill) - if it is possible for the EW to make her first wolf and make a kill during the same Night, then it would be only probable there still was a wolf among us on D1. The only thing that now kind of troubles me is the way Kuru has avoided answering that question... but without any better leads I'lll stick to the idea that there was a wolf on D1 and I'm currently looking for any jackpots on D1 voting which ended in a tie - so is there anything looking like a helping hand -situation where a baddie helped another to avoid the gallows? Hope that cleared my meaning...
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#2 | |
Laconic Loreman
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That doesn't mean other people voting last night weren't trying to help for other reasons. Mine were unintentional.
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#3 | |
Blithe Spirit
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,779
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#4 | |
Flame Imperishable
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Right here
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Pros (for the side of evil): - EW-Lottie doesn't get found out as EW as soon. - Strong wolf presence in the Dead Thread in the form of Boro (with 3 more future potential-wolves to spare!). - Lottie manages to distance herself from Boro (if he gets found out as a wolf). Cons (for the side of evil): - Does actually mean that a wolf gets killed (but in this case Boro would be the spare one). edit: x-posted with Legate
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#5 | |
The Werewolf's Companion
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: The Moon
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Now, I'm not saying you *were* turned last Night, but I am saying that if we're floating insubstantial theories, I'd like this one to be out there, too. I'd still rather vote for Zil toDay. I'm much more confident in my suspicion of him than I am in this theory about you. But I'd like to point out the vibes I'm picking up now, just to have them out there in the case that I continue to find you suspicious later on. To summarize: I don't want to forget that on Day 2, your posts felt more cautious than they did on Day 1. I suspect you might have been turned last Night, but I have no proof, and therefore I simply want to quickly jot that down. EDIT: xed with Legate
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#6 |
Auspicious Wraith
Join Date: May 2002
Location: The Netherlands
Posts: 4,859
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I'm beginning to suspect Loslote, which has surprised me somewhat because I liked her posts on Day 1.
Go back to the Nerwen/Inzil spat - I had to read this 3 times (and get Cailin to explain it to me ![]() Then (post #197), it's pretty minor but there's just something about it - she returns to the attack on Inzil but seems to balance it out by 'feeling better about Nog' at the same time. 'Wouldn't mind voting for Zil today" indeed. I dunno - it's just the first time so far I've read something and thought there might be something behind it.
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#7 | |||
Shady She-Penguin
Join Date: Dec 2004
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I'd like to go to bed soon, and avoid the voing chaos this time, so I'm gonna vote soon. And please everyone, remember to keep track of the general situation before you vote, we don't want another tie. That novel you want to write to back up your vote can wait until you've voted. You don't want to crosspost with everyone, trust me. edit: xed with the last trio
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Like the stars chase the sun, over the glowing hill I will conquer Blood is running deep, some things never sleep Double Fenris
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#8 |
Shady She-Penguin
Join Date: Dec 2004
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Eönwë -
1) good. That makes sense. 2) let's not debate this now when the dl is in an hour and a bit but rather during the first half of toMorrow.
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Like the stars chase the sun, over the glowing hill I will conquer Blood is running deep, some things never sleep Double Fenris
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#9 |
Flame Imperishable
Join Date: Dec 2007
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Yes, but for my second post what I was getting at was that for toNight, both people should vote for toDay's lynchee (so we don't have a wasted Night on that thread).
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#10 |
Shady She-Penguin
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: In a far land beyond the Sea
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Quick list
Innocent
Legate and Mithalwen - seem like their normal innocent selves, haven't said anything particularly eyebrow-raising. Eomer - he rubs me the wrong way with everything he says, so it is as it should be. ![]() Idk Boro and Lottie - yesterDay was weird. I would like to wait at least one more Day and see. But Boro is certainly fishier than Lottie and seems to have a death wish, so out of the two I'd vote for him again. Lalaith - she's hard to read. Nogrod - aka the advocate of the dead ![]() Brinniel and Shasta and Sally - they are all under my radar atm, will need to pay more attention toMorrow. Pervencia - where is she (again)? Suspicious Nerwen and Zil - I don't like the way the spat escalated, it actually made me think of those times two wolves thought it would be "logical" to suspect each other and went for it and nobody who was actually innocent thought it was logical. Eönwë - it's maybe not the fairest or best of arguments, but he'd have been a very logical wolf convert pick. Has been markedly guarded toDay and continues to talk about the dead thread which is useful (I really appreciate someone trying to work out a system, I do!) but also conveninetly something else than finding wolves/EW, which is especially bad this late. edit: xed with all
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Like the stars chase the sun, over the glowing hill I will conquer Blood is running deep, some things never sleep Double Fenris
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#11 | |
Flame Imperishable
Join Date: Dec 2007
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Quote:
You do have a point though - I have been thinking a lot more about that than I should be, at the expense of working out who I actually think is suspicious. edit: whoa, new page! x-ed with a few.
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#12 |
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: The Treetops, C/O Great Smials
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Here. But about to succumb to exhaustion.
Can someone tell me the voting deadline in Greenwich Mean Time?
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#13 |
The Werewolf's Companion
Join Date: Aug 2009
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I didn't mean it to seem shady, I just meant that of the people advocating for no lynch, he was probably least likely to face scrutiny the next Day, which might have made him a more appealing person to turn. Again, all wild speculation.
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I have loved the stars too fondly to be fearful of the night. Double Fenris
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#14 | |
Flame Imperishable
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Right here
Posts: 3,928
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#15 | ||
Shady She-Penguin
Join Date: Dec 2004
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Quote:
edit: xed with Kuru and afraid I've been on the misspell train too!
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Like the stars chase the sun, over the glowing hill I will conquer Blood is running deep, some things never sleep Double Fenris
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#16 | |
The Werewolf's Companion
Join Date: Aug 2009
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Quote:
I'm headed home from work, but I should be back before DL, so I'm not going to vote yet.
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I have loved the stars too fondly to be fearful of the night. Double Fenris
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#17 |
Pilgrim Soul
Join Date: May 2004
Location: watching the wonga-wonga birds circle...
Posts: 9,461
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I know she hasn't been posting but it maybe would be nice to get Pervinca's name right..
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#18 |
Flame Imperishable
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Right here
Posts: 3,928
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You're right, of course. I just copied Kuru's list.
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#19 |
Regal Dwarven Shade
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: A Remote Dwarven Hold
Posts: 3,593
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Oh.
Have I been getting her name wrong? ![]()
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#20 |
Flame of the Ainulindalë
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Just looking at Eönwe's plan makes me more confident about not even thinking about that kind of a "deal". There's everything to go wrong and be misinterpreted.
Also it ties the hands of people in the Dead thread, making being there totally redundant (there can be situations where it would be more crucial to know someone else's than the "oldest" residents role)- or nauseatingly infuriating when things even can't go like "decided" (like there are several kills at a time and then there is no communication at all as to which one is checked). Unless the game ends very suddenly and fast, most of us are going to be there and wouldn't you like to play as well after death? The Dead can't pass any reliable information - as facts to be used in proofs -but they see more. And well you'll be there soon too with all your wits and capabilities of organizing things and seeing what is the best for the villagers you have here in the living thread - but then you will be empowered with lots of other stuff as well the living here have no clue. The reasonable way - to me - would be that the Dead play the game there and sort things out as best they can and then empower a vote for anyone who is to them the most suspicious-looking. And trust me - "been there, done that" - when you get there yourself, you understand what I mean. If the game lasts any longer than a few Days, the actual game will be there, not here. Okay. End of my rant. Sorry.
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#21 | |||||
Laconic Loreman
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Nerwen asks later how Inzil knows this...for myself it's not the possible "slip" itself, but the posts and reactions afterwards. Inzil 176: Quote:
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#22 | |
Laconic Loreman
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I accidentally hit enter and didn't finish the explanation...
Inzil 180: Quote:
As I said though, appearances aren't always what they seem. And then the digging in on the Nerwen vote/suspicions when pressed for why... So yes, not the possible letting slip to knowing what the EW/wolves knew or didn't know, but just the responses after make it look worse for Inzil.
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#23 | ||
Shady She-Penguin
Join Date: Dec 2004
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And I agree very much with Lottie about Eönwë. There's something about him that's different, and he would have been a good (but obviously also short-sighted) pick from the EW. I mean picking the villager that is the most widely trusted/ considered reasonable/productive is great if it works but not exactly sneaky. But in this case I wouldn't be surprised... which kinda sucks for Eönwë of course if it's true - imagine being such a good good guy that you're turned evil and then lynched because you were the obvious choice because you were so good? edit: xed with Eomer
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Like the stars chase the sun, over the glowing hill I will conquer Blood is running deep, some things never sleep Double Fenris
Last edited by Thinlómien; 07-13-2017 at 03:40 PM. Reason: EDIT OF EDIT - bd stop showing posts I've read as orange please |
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#24 | |
The Werewolf's Companion
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: The Moon
Posts: 3,021
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Quote:
EDIT: xed with Nog
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I have loved the stars too fondly to be fearful of the night. Double Fenris
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#25 |
Wisest of the Noldor
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Back. Will post when I've caught up.
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"Even Nerwen wasn't evil in the beginning." –Elmo. |
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#26 |
The Sweetest Spoiler
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: from beneath you it giggles incessantly
Posts: 5,789
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....I need a drink. I'm home though, so there's that.
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"My heart always cowers behind the defense of my wit." Friendship is two pals munching on a well-cooked face together. Fenris bookworm.
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#27 |
Flame Imperishable
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Right here
Posts: 3,928
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Just to clarify how the empowering thing would work (since there's been some discussion):
1. Let's assume we start with today's living as the options. First of all, we alphabetise the list (toDay is an even Day so it's in Z->A order). That gives us: Thinlómien2. Now, if someone is selected from the first half of the names (which includes the person exactly in the middle), then the person is PREY (to use Kuru's terms), i.e., good, and if they are in the second half, they are a PREDATOR (also Kuru's term), i.e., evil. This gives us: If the person is PREY: Thinlómien Shastanis Althreduin satansaloser2005 Pervencia Took Nogrod Nerwen Mithalwen Loslote If the person is a PREDATOR: Legate of Amon Lanc Lalaith Inziladun Eönwë Eomer of the Rohirrim Brinniel Boromir88 3. Then, based on whether the Target (i.e. the person whose role was found out the Night before) is innocent or guilty, someone who is a known innocent (i.e. someone genuinely found out to be an innocent, or if no such person appears, a Night kill, e.g. Morsul - I assume the Dead Thread can come up with a system, but my suggestion would be to cycle through those lynched and definitively proven to be innocent) picks which of the people in the appropriate PREDATOR or PREY list is voted. Of course, if we want to be particularly careful about the list (and possibly EW attempts at manipulation), we could, for example, after Day 4 (since this will only start on Day 3), decide to use a different ordering, e.g. Kuru's narration order (forwards one day, backwards the next), and so on. edit: x-ed since my last.
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#28 |
Flame Imperishable
Join Date: Dec 2007
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Also, just to clarify the other part, the idea was that the Target would be the non-Night-killed-person in the Dead Thread who has been there the longest and has not had their role revealed should be picked.
I say non-Night-killed because while it's an interesting idea, it seems pretty crazy to imagine the EW Night-killing one of their own, and even if they did, it seems even more unlikely that it could happen more than once (once they're down to non-replenishable wolves), and one wouldn't screw up the system enough to make much a difference. edit: x-ed since my last.
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#29 | ||||
A Voice That Gainsayeth
Join Date: Nov 2006
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Ok! Off to finish going through toDay's posts and then I will try to also figure out something sensible out of this and vote. EDIT: x-ed with some bunch of people somewhere around since my last probably
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#30 |
Wisest of the Noldor
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I need to think some more about this Dead Thread situation. Can we make it work?
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"Even Nerwen wasn't evil in the beginning." –Elmo. |
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#31 |
Shady She-Penguin
Join Date: Dec 2004
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I think yes, but I also think we should figure that out rather in the first half of toMorrow when people are anyway going to be slow about getting to lynching business, not less than two hours before the deadline (as no one is going to be empowered toDay anyway).
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Like the stars chase the sun, over the glowing hill I will conquer Blood is running deep, some things never sleep Double Fenris
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#32 | |
Shady She-Penguin
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: In a far land beyond the Sea
Posts: 8,093
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Quote:
I'm gonna vote now, and I became very unsure about Zil/Nerwen, so: ++Eönwe if you're lynched we will remember your dead thread plans and continue to discuss them! Good night kids, and remember to avoid cross-voting! We don't want a tie!
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Like the stars chase the sun, over the glowing hill I will conquer Blood is running deep, some things never sleep Double Fenris
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#33 | ||
Flame of the Ainulindalë
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#34 |
Flame of the Ainulindalë
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I do think the Boro - Lottie cahoots in the end of D1 is a bit of a stretch, but one of them being either the EW or a Wolf is not that far off.
Boro has acted weirdly either just having fun, wishing to play in the Dead thread, sporting as the EW / Wolf or plain counting that being too reckless would in the end stop us from actually lynching him (that there would be enough people not to vote him in the end). Lottie and Inzil have both been on top of things early D1 on which could be just dedication to the game and taking it seriously (just wishing to know the rules well and giving them and different scenarios a lot of thought beforehand). Lottie I could see advocating a no-lynch as a baddie just to be on a safe side herself while making show-off -moves near the DL to underline her daring (aka. not having a baddie-role). Zil goes to and fro a bit like Legate but feels a bit less genuine. Eönwe flip-flops like Lommy of the old times first advocating lynch: "no lynch is a free ride for the wolves" and then making a "Legate 180" and suggesting a no-lynch plan. But then being around ten minutes before the DL he doesn't do anything to affect the vote - so drawing himself away from the issue and not like trying to push for the no-lynch - like he was happy about it? Okay. Those are probably my top suspects at the moment.
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Upon the hearth the fire is red Beneath the roof there is a bed; But not yet weary are our feet... Last edited by Nogrod; 07-13-2017 at 04:44 PM. Reason: X'd since my earlier post... |
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#35 |
Shady She-Penguin
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: In a far land beyond the Sea
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Okay okay.
Boro and Nerwen, thanks for the clarifications. I actually think Zil looks better not worse because of this. But I also think Nerwen looks a bit more innocent. It starts to look like an innocent-on-innocent spat to me. Argghh. edit: xed with Boro and Nerwen
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Like the stars chase the sun, over the glowing hill I will conquer Blood is running deep, some things never sleep Double Fenris
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#36 |
Flame of the Ainulindalë
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What are you (Lommy & Legate) talking about the immediate DL? Isn't in 1 hour and 40 minutes from now, not 40 minutes from now?
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#37 | |
A Voice That Gainsayeth
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: In that far land beyond the Sea
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Quote:
![]() (x-ed with everyone since the quoted post)
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"Should the story say 'he ate bread,' the dramatic producer can only show 'a piece of bread' according to his taste or fancy, but the hearer of the story will think of bread in general and picture it in some form of his own." -On Fairy-Stories |
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#38 |
Wisest of the Noldor
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Hang on, where's this "Eonwe is different toDay = wolf" thing come from? *Is* he different?
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"Even Nerwen wasn't evil in the beginning." –Elmo. |
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#39 | ||
Flame of the Ainulindalë
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#40 |
A Voice That Gainsayeth
Join Date: Nov 2006
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Ok, here we go:
Nerwen - aside from the incident with Zil, there wasn't anything that would make me suspect her in any way. Therefore I am probably not going to vote her toDay. Inziladun - okay, now upon re-reading, his reaction to Nerwen escalated in such a rapid way that it really makes my alarm bells ring. However, all his posting earlier was pretty normal, so I would prefer not to vote him solely on the basis of that one instance. Loslote - now she has been bringing a lot of stuff to the front, and like I said, seems generally much more vocal than I am used to her being. I am really not into believing that she and Boro would have been two baddies from the start, although we have seen bolder packs. Objectively however, even though she's being vocal and bringing people up as possible suspects and all that, her behavior did not strike me as sinister by itself. I think there isn't enough to make me vote her now, either. Boromir88 - okay, let's be frank. If there's anyone behaving outright suspiciously, it's him; and that is exactly the problem, because why. His responses regarding yesterDay were satisfactory to me by themselves, but that does not change his behavior as it is. He is probably the one I might consider the most worthy of my vote, just because I have no idea what to do with him and I don't want to give him a pass "because he's so strange that he possibly can't be guilty". Shastanis Althreduin - is not around? I mean, appeared, but there have been no posts from him now, so... obviously leaving him be for now, although I certainly hope we won't have too many submarines here. satansaloser2005 - hasn't yet posted enough for me to form an opinion, therefore probably not voting her now. Eomer of the Rohirrim - he has been poking around. YesterDay, I got generally positive vibe from him, today, he was maybe throwing some suspicion, but also said things I can again agree with and which seem reasonable (like his attitude towards Boro). Not voting him, in any case. Thinlómien - she has been very active now, and I can agree with many points she brings up. Most of all, I am not getting any feeling of false tones from her posts, which at the moment is probably the main thing I am operating on in regards to her. Therefore no reason to vote her toDay. Lalaith - is really hard to read for me, I think I need to see more from her. So far, nothing that would make me vote for her, however. Mithalwen - so far I am not getting any bad vibes from her. She participates in the discussion, I did not see anything that would look especially wolf-y. In any case nothing that would make me think she deserves a vote. Eönwë - whereas I acknowledge the theory that he would have been a convenient Wolf pick last Night, I also acknowledge that it would have been perhaps too obvious (then again, nobody really thought about it until now), and upon re-read, I don't think his behavior is really different in some significant manner. I am probably not voting him toDay. Nogrod - good to see him around, though most of his posting was about the Dead thread. I am certainly not voting him toDay, hopefully toMorrow there will also be more things to read from him. Pervinca Took - probably absent? Brinniel - also hasn't been around that much, although has posted earlier. Not enough to go with, however. But that's about it. Will check who I x-posted with (probably a lot) and then finally vote and go to sleep. EDIT: x-ed since my last post
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"Should the story say 'he ate bread,' the dramatic producer can only show 'a piece of bread' according to his taste or fancy, but the hearer of the story will think of bread in general and picture it in some form of his own." -On Fairy-Stories |
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