The Hobbit Trolls - A Clever Parody?

[Morthoron]

Originally Posted by Balfrog

Morthoron

I actually enjoyed your fancy parody. Unfortunately your creation is of little value. But if it only took 5 minutes to do – imagine how little time and effort it would have taken Tolkien to create one for The Hobbit!

So to some quick scoring:


Proposed 'Troll' Figures ...............................Ms. Seth's Parody..........................Morthoron's Parody

(a) Of the same era............................................... .Yes.............................................. .Yes
(b) Of the same profession/background.......................Yes.............. .................................Yes
(c) Known to each other..........................................Yes ................................................No
(d) Connection to 'cockney London'............................Yes............ ...................................No
(e) Works - connection/tangencies to The Hobbit text...Yes (10+)........................................No
(f) Connections to remarks in Tolkien's Letters.............Yes........................... .....................No
(g) Known to Tolkien........................................... ...Yes............................................ ..Probably
(h) In a field actively studied by Tolkien......................Yes.................. ............................Possibly


Hmm … doesn't look like your effort stacks up very well. Can you have another go and find a different threesome that improves the standing? Or perhaps you can dig-out some more on the current three that will up the score and thus boost the credibility of your proposal?

First of all, I was joking; second, sadly, it seems you are in earnest regarding an hypothesis by your Sethian alter-ego that resorts to possibility puddle-jumping and an otherwise pretzel-logic twisting leap of faith to force a coney-ish conclusion on the trolls. By the way, they are not necessarily speaking cockney, but more like Mancunian, given that Tolkien would be more acquainted with guttural Manchester accents, having lived outside of Birmingham as a child and serving in the Lancashire Fusiliers in WWI. His brushes with London cockney would be limited.

Humorously enough, you're saying that the scholasticism of Thomas Aquinas, and Boethius' Consolation of Philosophy, were only "probably" known to Tolkien? One of the great Catholic authors of the 20th century who had the theological acumen to convert C.S. Lewis to Christianity, but scholasticism was only "possibly" part of a field he "actively studied"?

Obviously, you are completely unaware of the theological studies of Tolkien and his friends C.S. Lewis and C.K. Chesterton. Nor are you aware that T. Shippey makes the statement that Tolkien knew and loved King Alfred's translation of Consolation of Philosophy. You are also utterly unaware of the serious research, theses and books, regarding Tolkien and the scholasticism propounded by Boethius, Aquinas, Ockham and Albertus Magnus. At the very heart of The Lord of the Rings are the Thomistic ideals of Justice and Mercy (which are viewed as inseparable).

In addition, Tolkien had "cordially disliked" Shakespeare and never mentioned Greene or Nashe at all. There are literally no connections, imaginary or otherwise, to Shakespeare, Greene or Nashe elsewhere in The Hobbit.

Besides, Tolkien's writings are littered with his disdain for Shakespeare, including his damnable diminution of Elves: “the word [elves] to be understood in its ancient meanings, which continued as late as Spenser—a murrain on Will Shakespeare and his damned cobwebs.”

According to his biographer Humphrey Carpenter, during a debate in school Tolkien “poured a sudden flood of unqualified abuse upon Shakespeare, upon his filthy birthplace, his squalid surroundings, and his sordid character.”

Yet Tolkien, who even disliked Macbeth's walking army of fake trees, and who exhibited no love at all for any Elizabethan prose or poetry (preferring Middle English and Anglo-Saxon predecessors), would suddenly plop 3 playwrights from London into one of his books? My point by adding 3 trollish scholastic philosophers was that your Sethian click-bait does not in any way persuade more than any other casual (or in this case, sarcastic) guess regarding anything in Tolkien's corpus.

Originally Posted by Balfrog

Anyway – you are wrong – the first thing I checked was your trio's birth and death dates using Wikipedia. I immediately realized that William of Ockham could not possibly have been known by A.M. & T.A.

Am I wrong, or are you merely incapable of proper reading comprehension? I suggest you reread what I wrote regarding William of Ockham. Perhaps reciting it aloud will aid in your understanding. Take your time. Read it very slowly.