2 Of Valinor and the Two Trees - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

ArcusCalion · 11-02-2017, 12:18 PM

VT-LQ-01.5: Ekkaia is in no way meant to be equivalent to "space." It is akin more to the ancient Greek and Indian mythological idea of the Sea that encircles the world, or the Biblical waters that were beyond the sky that God used to make the flood. In the earliest concept, there was no "space" as it was a simple flat earth with the stars and Sun and Moon being in "Ilmen" the narrow region of the atmosphere where the luminaries are said to be. However, in the new concept, Ea is introduced as true "space" beyond Arda, which is merely our world / solar system. Thus, the placement of the Walls of the World comes into question. In the old conception, their function was to separate Creation from Uncreation, and to bind the Valar and Maiar to Arda. however, with the introduction of Ea, the boundary between Creation and Uncreation is the place between Ea and the Void, and thus it seems to me that the Walls would be there. However, for this passage, the main point is that, regardless of the placement of the walls, there must be some mention of Ea and its vast spaces, as the passage as-is merely lays out the old cosmology, where it goes Vaiya(Ekkaia) -> Walls of the World -> The Void / Eldest Darkness. We must either replace the Void section with Ea, or insert and additional Ea reference. I suppose we do actually have to determine where the walls of the world are meant to be in the new conception as well.

VT-LQ-04b, VT-LT-06 & VT-LT-11.5: I agree with Fin here. The Gardens of Lorien are even said to wind "nigh to the feet of Silpion." They can thus be by Ezellohar and in the Gardens of Lorien and Vana at the same time.

VT-LT-13: I agree with Fin here, I think the judgement of Men is worth including, as the description used is of the Halls of Mandos, removing Fui would allow for us to use it.

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11-02-2017, 12:18 PM	#15
ArcusCalion Quentingolmo Join Date: Aug 2017 Posts: 525	VT-LQ-01.5: Ekkaia is in no way meant to be equivalent to "space." It is akin more to the ancient Greek and Indian mythological idea of the Sea that encircles the world, or the Biblical waters that were beyond the sky that God used to make the flood. In the earliest concept, there was no "space" as it was a simple flat earth with the stars and Sun and Moon being in "Ilmen" the narrow region of the atmosphere where the luminaries are said to be. However, in the new concept, Ea is introduced as true "space" beyond Arda, which is merely our world / solar system. Thus, the placement of the Walls of the World comes into question. In the old conception, their function was to separate Creation from Uncreation, and to bind the Valar and Maiar to Arda. however, with the introduction of Ea, the boundary between Creation and Uncreation is the place between Ea and the Void, and thus it seems to me that the Walls would be there. However, for this passage, the main point is that, regardless of the placement of the walls, there must be some mention of Ea and its vast spaces, as the passage as-is merely lays out the old cosmology, where it goes Vaiya(Ekkaia) -> Walls of the World -> The Void / Eldest Darkness. We must either replace the Void section with Ea, or insert and additional Ea reference. I suppose we do actually have to determine where the walls of the world are meant to be in the new conception as well. VT-LQ-04b, VT-LT-06 & VT-LT-11.5: I agree with Fin here. The Gardens of Lorien are even said to wind "nigh to the feet of Silpion." They can thus be by Ezellohar and in the Gardens of Lorien and Vana at the same time. VT-LT-13: I agree with Fin here, I think the judgement of Men is worth including, as the description used is of the Halls of Mandos, removing Fui would allow for us to use it.