Lord of the Rings TV series gets multi-season order at Amazon

[Kuruharan]

Originally Posted by Boromir88

Oh don't say it...our most dreadful imaginations usually become reality. Just when I thought The Hobbit would go in a different direction ("Oh it's going to be a Del Toro film"), Jackson gets his foot in the door and then comes along Boyens and Walsh again for the same recycled disaster.

I know.

Sort of against my will, I want to see this TV series be well done...not that I expect anything of the sort. Just setting myself up for the inevitable disappointment.

I can just see Jackson already trying to work his way into the project. I fear that for the low knowledge corporate types he would seem like a big prize to score for the project since his name is already so heavily tied to the brand, they would think they are ensuring the success of the show by bringing him on board.

[Michael Murry]

Originally Posted by Kuruharan:

I can just see Jackson already trying to work his way into the project. I fear that for the low knowledge corporate types he would seem like a big prize to score for the project since his name is already so heavily tied to the brand, they would think they are ensuring the success of the show by bringing him on board.

This seems like a rather inescapable -- if not implacable and inexorable -- observation. Consider, from Wikipedia:

The [Hobbit] series was a major financial success, with the films classified as one of the highest-grossing film series of all time, going on to outgross The Lord of the Rings film trilogy. Although critically considered to be inferior to The Lord of the Rings, it was nominated for various awards and won several, though not as many as its predecessor

Budget
$675 million
Box office
$2.932 billion

More from Wikipedia:

Television

On November 13, 2017, it was announced that Amazon had acquired the global television rights to The Lord of the Rings, committing to a multi-season television series. The series will not be a direct adaptation of the books, but will instead introduce new stories that are set before The Fellowship of the Ring. Amazon said the deal included potential for spin-off series as well.

We can clearly see the "why" of it all. I just shudder to think of the "what?"

[Kuruharan]

I wonder how much of the “financial success” of The Hobbit is attributable to inflation of ticket prices...

[Boromir88]

I'm somewhat comforted by the fact that the Amazon CEO Jeff Bezos is already known to be a big fan of the fantasy genre and that he was directly involved in discussing this project with the Tolkien Estate and Trust.~Valesse

The rub about this is I remember when Jackson said he was a "fan" of Tolkien because he read Lord of the Rings once on a train and thought "this will be a kewl movie."

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by Boromir88

The rub about this is I remember when Jackson said he was a "fan" of Tolkien because he read Lord of the Rings once on a train and thought "this will be a kewl movie."

I'd be surprised if the writers of a tv series had even done that. At most they might have watched the movies, and that's where their ideas about Tolkien will originate.

[Faramir Jones]

Thanks for starting this thread, Victariongreyjoy!

With what people have said, and the news of Christopher Tolkien's resignation as Director of the Tolkien Estate, I'm not optimistic about this planned TV series.

If, as you said Snowdog, this happened, things might be different:

As long as there is an all new cast, and all new episode writers and directors, and PJ Boyens WETA and gang are kept as far away from it as possible, it may have a chance.

The best that can be done, I think, is to wait and see...

[Lalaith]

This commentator agrees with us:
https://www.theguardian.com/tv-and-r...stamina-amazon

"Realistically, the best the series can do is not disappoint people. The worst it can do is junk the franchise for ever. That seems like too big a gamble, especially for a service that makes most of its money delivering cat food."

[Kuruharan]

First, the initial reaction to the Lord of the Rings show was a heavy, sustained groan that could be heard the world over. No one is remotely excited about the adaptation. Even to the most enthusiastic Tolkien fan, it’s just another needless dilution of a work that exists best in print form.

I had not consulted any other sites to gauge reaction to the news, so this information both intrigues and pleases me.

It will be a prequel that ditches the canon in order to explore the events between The Hobbit and Lord of the Rings, events so dull that Tolkien didn’t bother committing them to paper.

That comment irritated me.

It is not that the events between The Hobbit and The Lord of the Rings are dull. Not at all.

I just don't think the greedy pack of cynics who are producing this show will come close to doing it justice.

[Snowdog]

I believe this deal has its roots in the rights that were sold in the late 60's to UA, so it will be limited to the Hobbit and Lord of the Rings published book material. The CT published material (Sil, UT, CoH, HoME) is CT copyrighted and came after the 1969 deal was made. That said, the appendices at the end of Return of the King is a goldmine of summarized historical Middle Earth outlines that could lend itself easily to a multi episode TV mini-series. Of course, a major story in there is Appendix B which covers Aragorn and Arwen, so I suspect this will be at least part of this venture. That said, I am cautiously optomistic, or reluctantly hopeful, that this works out to the good. As long as there is an all new cast, and all new episode writers and directors, and PJ Boyens WETA and gang are kept as far away from it as possible, it may have a chance.

[Nerwen]

Originally Posted by Snowdog

I believe this deal has its roots in the rights that were sold in the late 60's to UA, so it will be limited to the Hobbit and Lord of the Rings published book material. The CT published material (Sil, UT, CoH, HoME) is CT copyrighted and came after the 1969 deal was made. That said, the appendices at the end of Return of the King is a goldmine of summarized historical Middle Earth outlines that could lend itself easily to a multi episode TV mini-series. Of course, a major story in there is Appendix B which covers Aragorn and Arwen, so I suspect this will be at least part of this venture. That said, I am cautiously optomistic, or reluctantly hopeful, that this works out to the good. As long as there is an all new cast, and all new episode writers and directors, and PJ Boyens WETA and gang are kept as far away from it as possible, it may have a chance.

For my part, I'm optimistic that it will work out to be spectacularly horrible. Down with mediocrity, I say!

[Morthoron]

I can't say I have much faith in an adaptation, save for that morbid type of interest that makes one slow down on the freeway to view a car crash.

Oh, I'm sure they'll trot out a slew of hired-gun "Tolkien experts" to give the proceedings the facade of authenticity, and they're sure to borrow some of the look of the films. They may even break from convention and have a multi-ethnic cast to assuage the appearance of political-incorrectness purportedly pervading Tolkien's Northwestern European mythos. There may even be the titillation of elves and men bumping uglies for the sake of the prurient modern and utterly bored viewer. After all, they must keep people engaged as they bounce from Facebook to Instagram between violent beheadings, incinerations and disembowlments.

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by Morthoron

They may even break from convention and have a multi-ethnic cast to assuage the appearance of political-incorrectness purportedly pervading Tolkien's Northwestern European mythos. There may even be the titillation of elves and men bumping uglies for the sake of the prurient modern and utterly bored viewer. After all, they must keep people engaged as they bounce from Facebook to Instagram between violent beheadings, incinerations and disembowlments.

Exactly. I fear the end product will have nothing Tolkien remaining, save the name. That begs the question of why one uses the Tolkien association, then. Only one answer: money.

[Michael Murry]

Originally Posted by Snowdog

... the appendices at the end of Return of the King is a goldmine of summarized historical Middle Earth outlines that could lend itself easily to a multi episode TV mini-series. Of course, a major story in there is Appendix B which covers Aragorn and Arwen, so I suspect this will be at least part of this venture. That said, I am cautiously optimistic, or reluctantly hopeful, that this works out to the good. As long as there is an all new cast, and all new episode writers and directors, and PJ Boyens, WETA and gang are kept as far away from it as possible, it may have a chance.

Yes, the various LOTR appendices do contain calendars of dates and summary plot outlines which could form the basis for additional "Middle Earth" stories. Unfortunately, Peter Jackson and Company made a hash of this information when they selectively plundered the Appendices and rearranged and expanded much of Tolkien's material -- most notably the Aragorn and Arwen "love" stuff -- into their own scripts for The Lord of the Rings -- the film. Ditto for the three Hobbit films. So now we have six films that constitute what I have heard termed, "the Jackson Legendarium," which the new television series will have to keep in mind so as to avoid "intellectual" property-rights litigation from the motion-picture studio quarter. Caught between a literary rock and a movie hard place, so to speak, something tells me that corporate lawyers will have as much to say about these television stories as anyone else.

[Rhun charioteer]

I think the main takeaway from this is that Amazon is downright desperate to keep up with Netlfix and HBO for streaming customers in terms of big buck critical and commercial successes. It's apparently a cut throat new sphere in the entertainment industry.

Amazon and Bezos I think see LOTR as a way to buy themselves out of the fact they can't compete with HBO-their trying to replicate Game of Throne's success despite GOT and LOTR being manicheanly different in terms of style, themes, emphasis, and worldview.

Is there any word on why Christopher Tolkien has resigned?

[Kuruharan]

Originally Posted by Rhun charioteer

Amazon and Bezos I think see LOTR as a way to buy themselves out of the fact they can't compete with HBO-their trying to replicate Game of Throne's success despite GOT and LOTR being manicheanly different in terms of style, themes, emphasis, and worldview.

I'm not sure that the powers that be at Amazon are attuned enough to the two franchises to realize the differences.

Maybe they were bamboozled by everyone saying that Martin is the American Tolkien and they thought they could one up HBO by getting the "original."

Is there any word on why Christopher Tolkien has resigned?

Sadly, I suspect it is the obvious reason of his advancing age.

[Michael Murry]

If I understand the legal situation surrounding the proposed television series and possible spin-offs, the TV programs may cover anything and everything in Middle Earth from after The Hobbit (book and films?) but before LOTR: The Fellowship of the Ring (book and film?). To begin figuring out what this means as a practical, story-telling matter, I consulted the relevant Middle Earth chronology (for the Third Age) from Appendix B of Lord of the Rings (the book) which reads as follows:

2942 Bilbo returns to the Shire with the Ring. Sauron returns in secret to Mordor.
...
3001 Bilbo's farewell feast [on his 111th birthday]. Gandalf suspects his ring to be the One Ring. The guard on the Shire is doubled. Gandalf seeks for news of Gollum and calls on the help of Aragorn.

I take it, then, that these prospective television programs and spin-offs can cover anything and everything in Middle Earth from 2943 to 3000 of the Third Age, a period of 58 years (inclusive). Still, I can't see how the characters and their story arcs can make any sense without reference to what came before and what comes after. In other words, we seem to have sequel and prequel combined into one: with the former coming after what no one can legally tell us about (but which we know anyway) and the latter coming before something else that no one can legally tell us about (but which we know anyway), either. How does anything like that work outside of a "secret" American grand jury proceeding leaked to the media by anonymous accusers on an hourly basis? Game of Thrones, or House of Cards? Inquiring minds want to know.

[William Cloud Hicklin]

Hey, I wonj't be disappointed at all, since I fully expect Young Aragorn: Lord of the Game of Ring Thrones to be utter crap.

[Morthoron]

Originally Posted by William Cloud Hicklin

Hey, I wonj't be disappointed at all, since I fully expect Young Aragorn: Lord of the Game of Ring Thrones to be utter crap.

Well, white wolves did cross the Brandywine during the Fell Winter. Could zombies be far behind?

[Boromir88]

Originally Posted by Morthoron

Well, white wolves did cross the Brandywine during the Fell Winter. Could zombies be far behind?

And before The Wall there was the High Hay.

[Galadriel55]

Originally Posted by Boromir88

And before The Wall there was the High Hay.

Which has magic that stops the Children of the Old Forest!

[Michael Murry]

I just caught this from Den of Geek:

John Rhys-Davies interview: Aux, Orcs, Lord Of The Rings, Indiana Jones and more

John Rhys-Davies tells us about Aux, autograph hunting, horror, the Lord Of The Rings TV series and more.

I don't do Internet links very well in this forum, so would someone please fix this if I get it wrong?

[URL="http://www.denofgeek.com/uk/movies/john-rhys-davies/53281/john-rhys-davies-interview-aux-orcs-lord-of-the-rings-indiana-jones-and-more"[/URL]

The Interested reader will have to scroll down a bit in the interview to get to Mr Rhys-Davies' comments on LOTR, the Hobbit, and prospective TV series. He basically sees little but greed for more $$$$$$$ in the whole idea, something like on-line gambling.

[William Cloud Hicklin]

Good for JRD. He's always told it like he sees it.

[davem]

Given that in the past the Estate has threatened legal action against a non-profit children's camp due to copyright https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20...nge-name.shtml this whole money grab seems sordid to say the least. There are lots of good reasons for attacking Amazon (as I said, I avoid them because of their 'creative' approach to tax and their treatment of staff) but the anger should be directed at the Estate, who decided to cash in on Tolkien's creation. Any harm done to Tolkien's creation should be laid at the door of the Estate. What was born in the mud and blood of the Somme, has become a cash cow for a bunch of greedy business people who know the price of everything and the value of nothing. If the rights had been placed in the public domain we would have no doubt seen some appalling and offensive trash produced, but also some beautiful and creative productions. As it is, this deal will almost certainly only produce the former.