Follow Up to the Blue Mountains Question - Gundabad

[Kuruharan]

That is an interesting idea.

However, Thrain was King of Durin's Folk. It seems oddly specific that he could only give permission to access Gundabad if he was ruling from a specific place.

[Huinesoron]

It's not about where he was ruling from - it's about who he was. The dwarves believed that Durin was reincarnated, so any one of the seven Durins would (under this theory) have the authority to open the birthplace of Durin I. Other kings of his line wouldn't have the same authority.

hS

[Zigûr]

Is it possible that they suspected that, even if they were to retake Gundabad, the Orcs would simply return in a generation or two (as they did) and seize it from them again? "If this is victory, then our hands are too small to hold it." Even without a menace like the Balrog, perhaps the Dwarves knew that they simply didn't have the strength to hold Gundabad in the long term.

[Huinesoron]

Originally Posted by Zigûr

Is it possible that they suspected that, even if they were to retake Gundabad, the Orcs would simply return in a generation or two (as they did) and seize it from them again? "If this is victory, then our hands are too small to hold it." Even without a menace like the Balrog, perhaps the Dwarves knew that they simply didn't have the strength to hold Gundabad in the long term.

That's actually very plausible (probably moreso than my not-so-crackpot theory). I feel like 'we recaptured but didn't reoccupy' is something that happens more than once in Tolkien - Osgiliath for one, but also the whole fall of Arnor. It fits the theme of Good being in decline even without Evil to directly oppose it - and also draws on Tolkien's experiences in the Great War, where the land recaptured during the Somme wasn't exactly repopulated.

The one downside is that it assumes the dwarves are willing to allow that much common sense in. Given that Thorin faced down a dragon to retake Erebor with 12 companions, and Balin took a stab at reclaiming Moria despite Dain (the king at the time) saying 'haha, if we do that we'll all die horribly'... would they really be deterred from populating Gundabad just by the threat of a few Orcs?

hS

[Zigûr]

Originally Posted by Huinesoron

The one downside is that it assumes the dwarves are willing to allow that much common sense in. Given that Thorin faced down a dragon to retake Erebor with 12 companions, and Balin took a stab at reclaiming Moria despite Dain (the king at the time) saying 'haha, if we do that we'll all die horribly'... would they really be deterred from populating Gundabad just by the threat of a few Orcs?

I'd say it's most likely in the utter exhaustion after Azanulbizar. The only person who seemed to have any remaining enthusiasm was Thráin, and Dáin immediately shut him down. The lords of the other houses were in a similar frame of mind to Ironfoot. After that discussion I can't imagine the reoccupation of any sites in the Misty Mountains being on the agenda. The text even states that after the battle the Dwarves stripped their dead "so that Orcs should not come and win there a store of weapons and mail." Seemingly they knew (or at least believed) that, despite their Pyrrhic victory, Orcs were still at large in the region.

By contrast, in the other cases the Dwarves were living comfortably and becoming restless.