* An unofficial New Silmarillion Outline *

[Aiwendil]

Good to see you, Lindil!

All right, I think that after being away for a bit, it might be best for me to start back in with something easy, so I'll try to look at "Thingol and Melian" this weekend.

[Aiwendil]

Just wanted to apologize for being absent for so long. Various things in real life have been consuming all my time. Alas, that state of affairs will probably continue for a few weeks at least, but I'm hopeful that sometime in June I can try to dive back in.

[ArcusCalion]

No worries Aiwendil, life happens! You may have noticed that Fin and I are starting on the Second Age drafts in the time being, but when you return we will stop and review.

[Findegil]

Hi Aiwendil,

nice to hear that you are still interested. As sad as it is: real live is more important, so take your time.

Respectfully
Findegil

[ArcusCalion]

I figured since Fin and gondowe and I have finished the first round of edits for the entire Second Age narrative, it might be time for a full timeline with progress updates:

Untouched means that this chapter has not been worked on by any member.
First Draft means that this chapter has been worked on by one member, but is not ready for posting.
Priv. Draft means that this chapter has been worked on by one member, and is ready for posting.
Draft means that this chapter has been posted, but no work has yet begun on it.
Work in progress means that this chapter has been posted, and work is underway, and may in fact be almost done.
Semi-finished means that this chapter has been finished, but new changes or revisions have come to light and it needs further work.
Finished means that this chapter has been finished, and all members are still satisfied with its state.

TRANSLATIONS FROM THE ELVISH

VOLUME I: THE ELDER DAYS

Ainulindalë .................................................. ............. Finished
Valaquenta .................................................. ............. Finished
- Of the Valar .................................................. ................... Finished
- Of the Maiar .................................................. ................... Finished
- Of Enemies .................................................. .................... Finished
Quenta Silmarillion
- Of the Beginning of Time .................................................. . Finished
- Of Valinor and the Two Trees .............................................. Finished
- Concerning Naugrim, Ents, and Eagles ................................ Finished
-- Anaxartaron Onyalië .................................................. ........ Finished
- Of the Coming of the Elves ..................................... Work in progress
-- Cuivienyarna .................................................. ....... Work in progress
-- Orcs .................................................. .................. Work in progress
-- Of the Captivity of Melkor ....................................... Work in progress
- Of Thingol and Melian ............................................ Work in progress
- Of Eldamar and the Princes of the Eldalië ................. Work in progress
-- Aman .................................................. ................ Work in progress
-- The Names of Finwë's Descendants .......................... Work in progress
--- The names of Finwë and his spouses .............................. Work in progress
--- The names of the Child of Míriel ..................................... Work in progress
--- The names of the Children of Indis ................................. Work in progress
--- The names of the Children of Fingolfin ............................ Work in progress
--- The names of the Children of Finarfin .............................. Work in progress
--- The names of the Sons of Fëanor ................................... Work in progress
- Of Finwë and Míriel .................................................. .. Semi-finished
- Of Fëanor and the Unchaining of Melkor ....................... Semi-finished
- Of the Silmarils and the Unrest of the Noldor ................. Semi-finished
-- The Shibboleth of Fëanor ........................................ Work in Progress
- Of the Darkening of Valinor ......................................... Semi-finished
-- Of the Rape of the Silmarils ......................................... Semi-finished
- Of the Thieves’ Quarrel .............................................. Semi-finished
- Of the Flight of the Noldor ...................................... Work in progress
-- Of the Speech of Fëanor upon Túna .......................... Work in progress
-- Of the first Kin-slaying and the Doom of the Noldor .... Work in progress
- Of the Sindar .................................................. ...... Work in progress
-- Of the Building of Menegroth ................................... Work in progress
-- Of the Coming of Denethor ...................................... Work in progress
- Of the Sun and Moon and the Hiding of Valinor .......... Work in progress
- Of Men .................................................. ............... Work in progress
- Of the Coming of the Noldor ................................... Work in progress
-- Of Fingon and Maedros ........................................... Work in progress
-- Of the Siege of Angband ......................................... Work in progress
-- Concerning the Dwarves ......................................... Work in progress
- Of the Founding of Nargothrond and Gondolin ........... Work in progress
-- Of Dagor Aglareb .................................................. . Work in progress
- Of Beleriand and Its Realms ................................... Work in progress
- Of the Noldor in Beleriand ...................................... Work in progress
- Of Turgon and the Building of Gondolin .................... Work in progress
- Of Maeglin .................................................. ......... Work in progress
- Of the Coming of Men into the West and the Metting of the Edain and the Eldar ... Work in progress
-- Of the Kindreds and Houses of the Edain .................. Work in progress
-- The Drúedain .................................................. ....... Work in progress
--- The Faithful Stone .................................................. ..... Work in progress
Athrabeth Finrod ah Andreth ....................................... Finished
- The Tale of Adanel .................................................. ........... Finished
- Of the Ruin of Beleriand and the Fall of Fingolfin .................... Finished
-- Of the Death of Fingolfin .................................................. ... Finished
-- Of the Sige of Eithel Sirion and the Fall of Galdor .................... Finished
-- Of the Swarthy Men .................................................. .......... Finished
Atanatárion
- Narn Beren ion Barahir or Narn e•Dinúviel .................. Finished
-- The Lay of Leithian .................................................. ........... Finished
--- Of Thingol in Doriath .................................................. ............... Finished
--- Of Lúthien the Beloved .................................................. ............ Finished
--- Of Daeron Minstrel of Thingol .................................................. ... Finished
--- Of Morgoth & the Snaring of Gorlim ............................................ Finished
--- Of the Saving of King Finrod Felagund by the XII Bëorings ............. Finished
--- Of Tarn Aeluin the Blessed .................................................. ....... Finished
--- Of Gorlim Unhappy .................................................. ................. Finished
--- Of Beren Son of Barahir & his Escape .......................................... Finished
--- Of the Meeting of Melian and Thingol ........................................... Finished
--- Beren's Meeting with Lúthien .................................................. ... Finished
--- Beren before Thingol .................................................. ............... Finished
--- Lúthien's Captivity in Doriath .................................................. ... Finished
--- Beren in Nargothrond .................................................. .............. Finished
--- Beren and Felagund before Sauron ............................................. Finished
--- Lúthien in Nargothrond .................................................. ........... Finished
--- The Defeat of Sauron .................................................. .............. Finished
--- The Attack by Celegorm and Curufin ........................................... Finished
--- The Disguising of Beren and Lúthien and the Journey to Angband ... Finished
--- Fingolfin and Morgoth; the Meeting with Carcharoth ...................... Finished
--- Beren and Lúthien in Angband .................................................. .. Finished
--- Escape from Angband .................................................. ............. Finished
- The Quest of the Silmaril 2 ................................................. Finished
- The Quest of the Silmaril 3 ................................................. Finished
-- The Wolf-hunt of Carcharoth ................................................ Finished
- The Song of Lúthien in Mandos ............................................ Finished
-- The Choices of Lúthien .................................................. ...... Finished
- Narn e•mbar Hador .................................................. ......... Finished
- Narn e•’Rach Morgoth or Narn i Chîn Húrin .................. Finished
-- Of the Union of Maedros .................................................. ... Finished
--- The Childhood of Túrin .................................................. ............ Finished
-- Of the Fifth Battle: Nirnaeth Arnoediad ................................. Finished
--- The Words of Húrin and Morgoth ................................................. Finished
--- The Departure of Túrin .................................................. ............ Finished
--- Túrin in Doriath .................................................. ...................... Finished
--- Túrin among the Outlaws .................................................. ......... Finished
--- Of Mîm the Dwarf .................................................. ................... Finished
--- The Land of Bow and Helm .................................................. ...... Finished
--- The Death of Beleg .................................................. ................. Finished
--- Faelivrin .................................................. ................................ Finished
--- Túrin in Nargothrond .................................................. ............... Finished
--- The Fall of Nargothrond .................................................. ........... Finished
--- The Return of Túrin to Dor-Lómin ............................................... Finished
--- The Coming of Túrin into Brethil ................................................. Finished
--- The Journey of Morwen and Niënor to Nargothrond ....................... Finished
--- Niënor in Brethil .................................................. ..................... Finished
--- The Coming of Glaurung .................................................. .......... Finished
--- The Death of Glaurung .................................................. ............ Finished
--- The Death of Túrin .................................................. .................. Finished
- Sigil Elu-neath .................................................. ................ Finished
-- The Wanderings of Húrin .................................................. ... Finished
--- The Fall of the Shadow on Brethil ................................................ Finished
--- Húrin in Nargothrond .................................................. .............. Finished
--- Húrin in Doriath .................................................. ..................... Finished
-- Of the Ruin of Doriath .................................................. ....... Finished
--- The Nauglamír .................................................. ....................... Finished
-Narn en•Êl .................................................. ...................... Finished
-- Narn e•Dant Gondolin .................................................. ....... Finished
--- Of Tuor and the Fall of Gondolin .................................................. Finished
-- Narn Orthad en•Êl .................................................. ............ Finished
--- Of the Voyage of Eärendil .................................................. ........ Finished
--- Of the Great Battle and the War of Wrath ..................................... Finished
--- Of the Last End of the Oath of Fëanor and His Sons ....................... Finished
--- Of the Passing of the Elves .................................................. ....... Finished
--- The Second Prophecy of Mandos ................................................. Finished

VOLUME II: THE HISTORY OF THE NORTHWEST OF MIDDLE-EARTH

The Black Years
- The Sindarin Princes of the Silvan Elves .................... Work in progress
- The Relations of the Longbeard Dwarves and Men ...... Work in progress
- A Description of the Island of Númenor .................... Work in progress
- Indis i·Ciryamo .................................................. ... Work in progress
- Concerning Galadriel and Celeborn .......................... Work in progress
-- The Elessar .................................................. ......... Work in progress
- The Port of Lond Daer ............................................ Work in progress
- Glorfindel .................................................. ........... Work in progress
- Of the Five Wizards ............................................... Work in progress
- Of the Rings of Power ............................................ Work in progress
- Aman and Mortal Men ............................................ Work in progress
- Tal-Elmar .................................................. ........... Work in progress
- The Fall of Númenor .............................................. Work in progress
-- The Lost Road .................................................. ..... Work in progress
- Sauron Defeated .................................................. . Work in progress
The Fading Years
- The Tradition of Isildur ........................................... Work in progress
-- The Disaster of the Gladden Fields ........................... Work in progress
- The Return of the Shadow ...................................... Work in progress
-- Concerning Hobbits ................................................ Work in progress
-- Of Pipe-Weed .................................................. ...... Work in progress
- Gondor and the Heirs of Anárion ............................. Work in progress
-- The Northmen and the Wainriders ............................ Work in progress
- The North Kingdom and the Dúnedain ...................... Work in progress
-- Of the Ordering of the Shire .................................... Work in progress
- The Legend of Amroth and Nimrodel ........................ Work in progress
- The Stewards .................................................. ...... Work in progress
- The Ride of Eorl .................................................. ... Work in progress
-- Cirion and Eorl .................................................. ..... Work in progress
- The House of Eorl .................................................. Work in progress
- Dúrin's Folk .................................................. ........ Work in progress
- Concerning Gandalf, Saruman, and the Shire ............. Work in progress
- The Quest for Erebor .............................................. Work in progress
-- The Broken Bridge .................................................. Work in progress
-- Of the Finding of the Ring ........................................ Work in progress
- The Tale of Aragorn and Arwen ................................ Work in progress
-- The Shadow Lengthens ........................................... Work in progress
- The Hunt for the Ring ............................................. Work in progress
-- Of the Journey of the Black Riders ............................ Work in progress
-- The Ring Sets Out .................................................. Work in progress
- The Treason of Isengard ......................................... Work in progress
-- The Shadow Grows ................................................. Work in progress
-- The Battles of the Fords of Isen ................................ Work in progress
- The War of the Ring ............................................... Work in progress
- The End of the Third Age ........................................ Work in progress
The New Shadow ........................................... Work in progress

VOLUME III: THE LORE OF THE WISE

Laws and Customs of the Eldar .................................. Priv. Draft
- Of Marriage .................................................. .................. Priv. Draft
- Of Naming .................................................. ................... Priv. Draft
- Of Death and the Severance of Fëa and Hröa ...................... Priv. Draft
- Of Re-birth and Other Dooms of Those That Go to Mandos ... Priv. Draft
- Of the Severance of Marriage ........................................... Priv. Draft
- Namna Finwë Míriello .................................................. .... Priv. Draft
- The Converse of Manwë and Eru ....................................... Priv. Draft
The Lammas .................................................. ......... Priv. Draft
- Dangweth Pengolodh .................................................. .... Priv. Draft
- Tengwesta Quenderinwa .................................................. Priv. Draft
-- Lambion Ontalë .................................................. ............. Priv. Draft
--- The Division of Tongues .................................................. ........ Priv. Draft
--- Excursus on the Languages of Beleriand ................................... Priv. Draft
- Essecenta Eldarinwa .................................................. ...... Priv. Draft
-- The Primary Linguistic Elements ........................................ Priv. Draft
-- The Meanings and Use of the Various Terms Applied to the Elves, and Their Varieties in Quenya, Telerin, and Sindarin ... Priv. Draft
--- Quenya .................................................. ............................... Priv. Draft
--- Telerin .................................................. ................................ Priv. Draft
--- Sindarin .................................................. .............................. Priv. Draft
--- *Abarī .................................................. ................................ Priv. Draft
-- The Clan Names, with Notes on the Names of Other Divisions of the Eldar .... Priv. Draft
--- Lindar (Teleri) .................................................. ...................... Priv. Draft
--- Vanyar .................................................. ................................ Priv. Draft
--- Noldor .................................................. ................................ Priv. Draft
--- Sindar .................................................. ................................ Priv. Draft
--- Nandor .................................................. ............................... Priv. Draft
- Appendix A. Elvish Names for Men .................................... Priv. Draft
- Appendix B. Elvish Names for the Dwarves ......................... Priv. Draft
-- The Petty Dwarves .................................................. ......... Priv. Draft
- Appendix C. Elvish Names for the Orcs .............................. Priv. Draft
- Appendix D. *KWEN, Quenya, and Elvish (Especially Noldorin) Words for 'Language' ... Priv. Draft
-- Note on the 'Language of the Valar' ................................... Priv. Draft
- Appendix E. Ósanwë Centa .............................................. Priv. Draft
- Appendix F. On *PHAN, Fana, and Related Matters .............. Priv. Draft
-- The Knowledge of the Valar, or Elvish Ideas and Theories Concerning Them ... Priv. Draft
-- Other Derivatives of *PHAN .............................................. Priv. Draft
- Appendix G. Notes on Órë ................................................ Priv. Draft
- The Tree of Tongues .................................................. ...... Priv. Draft
Ambarcanta .................................................. .Work in progress
- Maps and Diagrams .................................................. ...... Priv. Draft
Assorted Lore .................................................. ....... Priv. Draft
- The Istari .................................................. .................... Priv. Draft
- Of Lembas .................................................. ................... Priv. Draft
- The Sources of the Legend of Isildur's Death ...................... Priv. Draft
- The Line of Elros and the Kings of Númenor ........................ Priv. Draft
- The Marshals of the Mark ................................................. Priv. Draft
- The Rivers and Beacon-Hills of Gondor ............................... Priv. Draft
Assorted Poems .................................................. .... Priv. Draft
The Geneologies .................................................. ... Priv. Draft
Scholarly Notes and Essays ...................................... Priv. Draft
- Commentary of the Athrabeth Finrod ah Andreth ................ Priv. Draft
-- Author's Notes to the Commentary .................................... Priv. Draft
- Notes on Motives in the Silmarillion ................................... Priv. Draft
- The Palantíri .................................................. ................. Priv. Draft
- A Note on Númenórean Linear Measures ............................ Priv. Draft

As can be seen, we have made incredible progress already!

[ArcusCalion]

Having looked at the Tale of Aragorn and Arwen again, I have found that it can be inserted into the last two chapters of my original outline. Looking again at the other three 'tales' (Battles of the Fords of Isen, Hunt for the Ring, and Quest for Erebor) I think perhaps that The Hunt for the Ring can also be included. However, this may result in strange tonal shifts where Frodo is named without any explanation and highly specific dates are given where before there were only years denoted. I am happy to leave it out, as I think it works well (along with the other three) as supplemental material to Lord of the Rings, and would not work as well if worked into the historical narrative. Even so, I thought we should discuss it, since we are coming to the end of the entire narrative of the History of Middle-earth.

Here are my thoughts on each 'tale':
1) The Tale of Aragorn and Arwen: This tale is told as a self-contained narrative, with a similar historical tone to Appendix A and the Silmarillion in general. Thus, it makes no unexplained references to events not inside the tale, and all characters are either introduced in the narrative, or have already been introduced in the Silmarillion as we've created it. Thus, to insert it into the main narrative is not difficult, and although it must be broken up into pieces to fit the chronology, it is not spread out very far and is easy to follow. Therefore I think it should be added into the main narrative.
2) The Quest for Erebor: This tale is told as a fist person narrative by Frodo about a conversation between Gimli, himself, Pippin, and Gandalf in Minas Tirith. Therefore, to insert it into the tale we would need to remove the authorial first person from the writing, as well as the very situation in which it is presented, which would cause it to lose a lot of its structure. It also references Pippin as a character without introducing him. Therefore I think it is ideal to leave this tale separate as an appendix.
3) The Hunt for the Ring: This tale is told as a historical narrative analyzing the movements of people over a span of a few months. It makes heavy use of specific dates (something almost unheard of in our narratives outside of the Atanatarion) as well as references characters like Frodo and the events of LotR without giving explanations. For instance, it assumes the reader knows the plot of LotR in that we know that Bilbo gave the ring to Frodo and that he was entrusted to carry it secretly to Rivendell, of which there is never made explicit mention, either in this narrative or in our own historical narrative. Therefore I think it would work ideally as an appendix, although it is possible to insert it, despite the odd references.
4) The Battles of the Fords of Isen: This tale is told assuming the reader already knows the events of LotR. It references specific movements of the characters, refers to 'the narrative' of LotR, and mentions many many characters without giving them any introduction. Thus, to include it into the main narrative would be very jarring and would have very little context, so I think it is better to keep it separate as an appendix.

[Findegil]

I expected that in these parts we would come to discussions about the Appendices. I must say that I was from the start reluctant about using material as Appendices. I could agree to ArcusCalion’s reasoning that with our very short versions of tales from The Hobbit and LotR including all the stuff in the main narrative would creat some unproportonality. But let us go through the Appendices one by one as ArcusCalion started to do:
1) The Tale of Aragorn and Arwen: I have not yet read the second draft, but in principal I agree to include it into the main narrative.
2) The Quest for Erebor: As soon as ArcusCalion posted The Stewards which covers the tale from The Hobbit, I started experimenting with the text to include The Quest for Erebor. The main part of The Quest for Erebor is the conversation between Gandalf and the the dwarves, Thorin in particular, and some description of motives and movements by Gandalf. That we loss the setting and the conversation with the hobbits and Gimil is true, but what do these part add to the story?
The main issue I see, and up to now I did not have a good solution, is the unproportionality we creat: We tell on some pages how Gandalf orgenised the beginning of the quest, but then we have one or two bleak paragraphs about the quest itself. I found one source that can help: LotR; Prolog; Of the Finding of the Ring. In the moment I am considering takeing up parts of the revisions to The Hobbit started by JRR Tolkien in 1960. They reach only to the approach of Rivendell, but that could be okay, since the tone of the story is much changed we could take it as an account based on Gandalf’s memories. Since Gandalf left soon after the finding of the Ring we could rather follow him to the With Council in Lórien and the attack on Dol-Guldur and then tell in short what eles happened to Thorin & Co.
Anyhow we have created such breaks before, but in these cases we did not have better description. In all this four cases we know where to find it, but we restricted our self not to include it.
3) & 4) The Hunt for the Ring & The Battle of the Fords of Isen: The issue about knowledge of the plot and characters of LotR is clear, but I wonder if must not cure that issue any how. I don’t know which text ArcusCalion considered as sources for our text in the chapter The War of the Ring, but I can see two sources that could help to make the narrative a bit more substantial: I remember a Letter to Milton Waldmann in which Tolkien gave a ‘short’ description of his whole legendarium. I am not sure if the full text is available but we should search for it. And we have in the three volume editions of LotR in volume 2 and 3 a short description of what has happen so far. In addition we could search in HoMe for plot synopsis or use LotR; Appendix B especially The Great Years both of which we might expand within our rules to full narrative.
A special case is The Marshals of the Mark. If we include The Battle of the Fords of Issen in the main narrative, I think we should shift this to volume 3.

In the result we would creat something like JRR Tolkien envisioned for his Silmarillion and the Atanatarion: Where the great publications of JRR Tolkien (The Hobbit & LotR) cover the events, our retelling is short, but where these primary sources leave holes or are short our text is as braod as we can manage.

At least I think it is worth trying to include these 4 sources into the main narrative. If we fail to do so or are unsatisfied with the result we can easily switch back to using them as Appendices.

Respectfully
Findegil