Tolkien's Views on Creation and Evolution

[Huinesoron]

Request: Is it possible to move this thread to The Books or Novices and Newcomers? It seems like it would fit better there.

Opening Disclaimer: The original question was what Tolkien believed about the creation of the Earth. A second question of how closely he matched his writings to that belief. Actual discussion of the truth or otherwise of these beliefs isn't relevant, and I for one won't be addressing it.

With that said:

Originally Posted by R.R.J Tolkien

I will do. However when you attempted to do the same against creation, i thought it ok i respond.

R.R.J. Tolkien, I think you're confusing Morthoron with skip spence here. Skip was also mostly just stating what Tolkien did and felt, rather than their own beliefs; while this did slip over into an assertion ('strong scientific evidence'), the majority of what they said was just a summary of Tolkien's thoughts as seen in Myths Transformed (which is indeed in Morgoth's Ring).

Okay, moving on, I've been rooting through Letters to see what I can find.

Letter 96

Letter 96, as quoted at length by R.R.J., is very clear that Tolkien believed in a literal Fall of Man, and in a historic 'Edenic state' for humanity. Whether this was a garden at the source of four rivers where the first two humans lived in harmony with the animals, or an innocent 'childhood' in the East African Rift Valley (per Legate), isn't strictly clear from the letter; however, Tolkien definitely comes across as thinking the Genesis account is a myth based on a distant reality.

Letter 153

Letter 153 is a response to a Catholic reader arguing that many things Tolkien did were theologically unsound. It actually has very little bearing on the questions at hand, but does contain this:

I am not a metaphysician; but I should have thought it a curious metaphysic – there is not one but many, indeed potentially innumerable ones – that declared the channels known (in such a finite comer as we have any inkling of) to have been used, are the only possible ones, or efficacious, or possibly acceptable to and by Him!

The specific reference here is reincarnation, but I find it interesting that Tolkien appears at least open to the possibility that there is other intelligent life in the universe than humanity. Still not strictly relevant, but interesting.

Letter 169

As for the shape of the world of the Third Age, I am afraid that was devised 'dramatically' rather than geologically, or paleontologically. I do sometimes wish that I had made some sort of agreement between the imaginations or theories of the geologists and my map a little more possible.

It surprises me just how scathing Tolkien can be about scientific theories, while at the same time accepting them. This comment is typical: he simultaneously refers to them as 'imaginations', while saying he wishes he'd adhered more closely to them!

Letter 211

[quote]Pterodactyl. Yes and no. I did not intend the steed of the Witch-King to be what is now called a 'pterodactyl', and often is drawn (with rather less shadowy evidence than lies behind many monsters of the new and fascinating semi-scientific mythology of the 'Prehistoric'). But obviously it is pterodactylic and owes much to the new mythology, and its description even provides a sort of way in which it could be a last survivor of older geological eras.5[/]quote]

We encounter again Tolkien's use of the word 'myth' to describe events he believe happened, but were not recorded directly (same usage as for Genesis). This is proof that he was dubious of the specific science of paleontology - but also that he accepted the reality of 'older geological ages' from which a pterosaur-like creature could have sprung. This is similar to the 'elephant of prehistoric size' in Letters 64, though of course the mammoth is much more recent (there were extant mammoths 4000 years ago, which is well into actual, written historical time!).

Letter 324

Owing to the prominence of Ethiopia in the Italian war Gondar may have been one such element. But no more than say Gondwana-land (that rare venture of geology into poetry).

I think this goes a long way towards explaining what's up with Tolkien's viewpoint: he was, first and foremost, a literary thinker. His own writings were 'sub-creations'; any account of pre-history was 'mythology', whether scientific or religious; and the most interesting thing about ancient super-continents was the 'poetry' of their names.

Myths Transformed

The major changes Tolkien wanted to make during the 'Myths Transformed' period, late in his life, were: removing the flat earth period; making the sun (and moon) older than Middle-earth; moving the Awakening of Men back to around the time of the Awakening of the Elves (so that Melkor could corrupt them in person); making Melkor more of an immanent force for evil in the world, and less a single figure; dramatically lengthening the timeline.

On this last point: Tolkien lengthened a Valian Year from ~10 solar years to precisely 144, multiplying the age of Middle-earth by nearly 15. If we assume the timeline here was still valid, then the two Awakenings would have taken place some 650,000 years after Creation. It was then some 72,000 years to the Return of the Noldor, and (from other sources) a good 13,000 years from then to the present day.

Under Tolkien's late ideas, then, Middle-earth is 'now' around 750 thousand years old, and the 'Edenic state' of mankind lies nearly 100,000 years in the past.

I remember that the round-earth, old-sun changes were made to accord with the facts of the Real World (I think at the same time he made the Earth orbit the Sun, rather than the reverse); I don't remember whether the age change was stated to be for the same reason.

The Silmarillion - Nordic or Christian?

Both, obviously. ^_^

Unlike Lewis in The Magician's Nephew, Tolkien never set out to write an allegory for Genesis, or for any other part of the Bible. There are Christian themes and images in Middle-earth - a great many of them, as R.R.J. cites. There are also a lot of Norse themes and images: Tolkien mentions that Smaug is based on Fafnir (Letters 122), that the Dagor Dagorath is more like Ragnarök than 'anything else' (Letters 131), the name and character of Frodo (Letters 168), that Tom Bombadil makes use of some Nibelung material (Letters 237 & 240), Mirkwood (Letters 289), the dwarves (Letters 297)... I'm sure there are many more.

Perhaps the most relevant quote I've found on this matter is Tolkien's comments on Hitler, in Letter 45:

I have spent most of my life, since I was your age, studying Germanic matters (in the general sense that includes England and Scandinavia). There is a great deal more force (and truth) than ignorant people imagine in the 'Germanic' ideal. I was much attracted by it as an undergraduate (when Hitler was, I suppose, dabbling in paint, and had not heard of it), in reaction against the 'Classics'. You have to understand the good in things, to detect the real evil. But no one ever calls on me to 'broadcast', or do a postscript! Yet I suppose I know better than most what is the truth about this 'Nordic' nonsense. Anyway, I have in this War a burning private grudge – which would probably make me a better soldier at 49 than I was at 22: against that ruddy little ignoramus Adolf Hitler (for the odd thing about demonic inspiration and impetus is that it in no way enhances the purely intellectual stature: it chiefly affects the mere will). Ruining, perverting, misapplying, and making for ever accursed, that noble northern spirit, a supreme contribution to Europe, which I have ever loved, and tried to present in its true light. Nowhere, incidentally, was it nobler than in England, nor more early sanctified and Christianized. ....

The 'northern spirit', and the Nordic tales, were noble, and worthy of a lifetime of study. Per Letters 15, the very existence of the Silmarillion lent the later stories a 'northern atmosphere'. And Tolkien felt that they could only be improved by being 'sanctified and Christianised'.

Thus the Valar, Norse-style gods in all but name, are viewed through a lens of Christianity, and become angels; the invocations to Elbereth have resonances with Catholic prayers to the saints or indeed Mary to intercede on their behalf; and Gandalf is simultaneously an 'Odinic wanderer' and an angel in the style of Raphael, who met Tobiah on the road and travelled with him.

Tolkien's work doesn't set up a 'Christian good, Pagan bad' dichotomy; rather, it takes both bodies of mythology as sources, and blends them together with linguistics and his own imaginings. It's true that you're more likely to find 'bad' Nordic themes than Christian ones, but there are also many 'good' Nordic-inspired ideas in Middle-earth. Tolkien took it all and cooked up something truly unique, that - as Morthoron said - can be appreciated by anyone, Christian or otherwise.

hS

PS: That said, I find this quote very baffling:

Originally Posted by Birzer

...[Gandalf's] staff apparently having the same power as that possessed by Moses.

Staffs associated with Moses have the following powers: turning into snakes, producing water by hitting rocks (which Moses was punished for!), parting oceans, sprouting into trees, and securing victory over enemy armies.

Gandalf's staff... does none of these, nor anything like them. Unless the point Birzer is making is 'neither staff has any actual power, because it all comes from God', I'm not at all sure what he's trying to say.

hS

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Huh, you people have certainly been busy. I will just remark one thing, rather regarding the "generic methodology" used on this thread (which I think basically everyone agrees on, only somehow I think there was a seed of danger of people misunderstanding each other):

The question is (Huneisoron clarified it pretty well just above, I'd say) what were Tolkien's views of creation/evolution, then that's pretty simple and clear topic and let's stick to that.

I absolutely agree with Morth's contribution regarding the various influences, but I think it does not actually have anything to do with the question posed. The fact whether Tolkien used myths from here or there as inspiration for his Legendarium says nothing about his personal beliefs regarding the real-world age of the Earth etc.

Funnily enough, I think what Morth said was a good response to what R.J.J. wrote AFTER Morth's post, in his post about the Christian influences. As far as I am concerned, it looks to me like these posts should have been posted in reverse order. Then they would both make sense. Otherwise, what R.J.J. said is as much off-topic as Morth's. I mean, it may be enlightening for someone who doesn't know about Tolkien's background that much and so on, but it really doesn't also contribute to the question about Tolkien's stance on the evolution etc. question.

And most of all, we are talking about Tolkien's, let's say, scientific belief, right? We are not talking about his faith or anything. He was a Catholic, we know that, that could give us some generic area to operate in. But the basic idea is to try to reconstruct what he was thinking based on letters and other remarks. (And I think you folks have pretty much accomplished that.) Am I right?

All in all, I would 100% back up Huneisoron's opening disclaimer above as being the standard for this discussion, as well as moving this topic into a different sub-forum. Any related, but different discussions can have their own thread, if it came to that.

[R.R.J Tolkien]

Originally Posted by Legate of Amon Lanc

Huh, you people have certainly been busy. I will just remark one thing, rather regarding the "generic methodology" used on this thread (which I think basically everyone agrees on, only somehow I think there was a seed of danger of people misunderstanding each other):

The question is (Huneisoron clarified it pretty well just above, I'd say) what were Tolkien's views of creation/evolution, then that's pretty simple and clear topic and let's stick to that.

I absolutely agree with Morth's contribution regarding the various influences, but I think it does not actually have anything to do with the question posed. The fact whether Tolkien used myths from here or there as inspiration for his Legendarium says nothing about his personal beliefs regarding the real-world age of the Earth etc.

Funnily enough, I think what Morth said was a good response to what R.J.J. wrote AFTER Morth's post, in his post about the Christian influences. As far as I am concerned, it looks to me like these posts should have been posted in reverse order. Then they would both make sense. Otherwise, what R.J.J. said is as much off-topic as Morth's. I mean, it may be enlightening for someone who doesn't know about Tolkien's background that much and so on, but it really doesn't also contribute to the question about Tolkien's stance on the evolution etc. question.

And most of all, we are talking about Tolkien's, let's say, scientific belief, right? We are not talking about his faith or anything. He was a Catholic, we know that, that could give us some generic area to operate in. But the basic idea is to try to reconstruct what he was thinking based on letters and other remarks. (And I think you folks have pretty much accomplished that.) Am I right?

All in all, I would 100% back up Huneisoron's opening disclaimer above as being the standard for this discussion, as well as moving this topic into a different sub-forum. Any related, but different discussions can have their own thread, if it came to that.

Agreed and thanks for the post.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

I think there's one thing that should be pointed out. I think all the other references to Tolkien's belief in the Gospels, or his generic Christian faith, do in no way contribute as arguments for or against his belief in regards to creation.

Like it's been brought up several times above, professing Christian faith, or even less, believing in some sort of divine providence (or writing about world governed by Valar or Eru's will etc), does not need to have anything to do with understanding the creation of our world. Like I have said above: one can be a Christian or believe in God creating the world, but at the same time not believe in literal interpretation of Genesis. The Genesis is, first and foremost, a statement: it is a proclamation of faith, saying that creation was not an accident, it has a purpose, etc etc. The details of how exactly it happened - biologically, physically - are not its chief concern (if it had been, it would have spent more time elaborating on it - instead, every verse rather just repeats and underlines the fact that it was God's word that is, according to this account, the source of everything).

The same, what Tolkien said about Gospels, if he believed them to be true, says nothing about taking the rest of the biblical writings literally.

I am just saying all this evidence is not really relevant, as it cannot be used as an argument for or against anything. It only says that Tolkien was a Christian, but we already know that. What is relevant for the question of his view of creation and evolution is the evidence that directly refers Genesis, evolutionary theories, pterodactyls, etc.

[R.R.J Tolkien]

So I cant find it online but pages 141-142 of The Inklings C.S Lewis J.R.R Tolkien, Charles Williams and their friends. Humphrey Carpenter Harper Collins Publishers 2006

gives a small example of some of the discussions on evolution by the inklings. It seems from this section that evolution as in Darwinian upward complexity evolution is rejected, a few reasons are given.

[Huinesoron]

I agree with Legate that continuing to list examples of Christian (or indeed Norse) themes in Tolkien's writing is off-topic for this thread, and I'm sorry for contributing to it.

R.R.J., it would be really interesting if you could copy out some of that Inklings evolution discussion. I've not run up against any relevant quotes anywhere else (and don't own the Inklings biography), so it's possible that quote is the only basis for discussion.

Coming back to Myths Transformed, I thought I'd compile a few actual quotes from the collection that have bearing on Tolkien's thinking.

Originally Posted by MT 1

When however (no matter how little most people know or think about astronomy) it is the general belief that we live on a 'spherical' island in 'Space', you cannot [write a Flat Earth cosmology] any more.

This quote is actually... really weird. Tolkien isn't saying that he wants his story to be more true to life; he's saying that it's fundamentally wrong to write a story that conflicts with the majority understanding of nature. More and mor, it feels like Tolkien viewed everything as a story, rejecting objective truth entirely and basing his judgements solely on 'what most people believe'.

Originally Posted by MT 2

[Elven] legends should have a closer relation to the knowledge now possessed of at least the form of the Solar System (=Kingdom of Arda); though it need not, of course, follow any 'scientific' theory of its making or development.

'Scientific' in quotes yet again.

Originally Posted by MT 2

[Melkor's first attacks] will, roughly, correspond to supposed primeval epochs before Earth became habitable. A time of fire and cataclysm.

This section also directly references 'the orbit of Earth', and also insists that the Sun has to be coeval with the Earth.

And that is... Actually about it. MT then moves on to discuss later events, and does so mostly in-universe; we don't get anything else that sheds light on Tolkien's thinking behind the changes. Well, so it goes.

hS

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Nice discoveries there, hS. I think the first quote looks like Tolkien is talking about what would the public and the critics accept from a "good writer" at that time. The same way writing free-form verse would be considered awkward at certain time, or using outdated words would seem strange.

Why "scientific" is in quotation marks in the second one is hard to tell. But we should bear in mind that the first half of 20th century was also ripe with all kinds of new theories that may have seemed crazy, and also "esoteric pseudo-science" had been popular since earlier on. He may be refering to anything or nothing in particular.

The third quote at least seems to quite clearly indicate, whatever Tolkien's view of Earth's beginning was, it was not a literal copy-paste of Genesis. "A time of fire and cataclysm" does not sound like anything from the harmonious picture painted there, and to me it also sounds like simplified, average person's way of talking about the formation of primal Earth according to the latest theories in geology/astronomy of his time.

P. S. And I second the request for quotes about the Inklings - that's exactly the kind of stuff that might be interesting and good to have quoted here, if it can be found.

[R.R.J Tolkien]

Originally Posted by Huinesoron

I agree with Legate that continuing to list examples of Christian (or indeed Norse) themes in Tolkien's writing is off-topic for this thread, and I'm sorry for contributing to it.

R.R.J., it would be really interesting if you could copy out some of that Inklings evolution discussion. I've not run up against any relevant quotes anywhere else (and don't own the Inklings biography), so it's possible that quote is the only basis for discussion.

Coming back to Myths Transformed, I thought I'd compile a few actual quotes from the collection that have bearing on Tolkien's thinking.



This quote is actually... really weird. Tolkien isn't saying that he wants his story to be more true to life; he's saying that it's fundamentally wrong to write a story that conflicts with the majority understanding of nature. More and mor, it feels like Tolkien viewed everything as a story, rejecting objective truth entirely and basing his judgements solely on 'what most people believe'.



'Scientific' in quotes yet again.



This section also directly references 'the orbit of Earth', and also insists that the Sun has to be coeval with the Earth.

And that is... Actually about it. MT then moves on to discuss later events, and does so mostly in-universe; we don't get anything else that sheds light on Tolkien's thinking behind the changes. Well, so it goes.

hS

I have spent a good amount of time trying to cheat and find it online to post here and cannot. I have my kids soccer tournament today perhaps tomorrow i could or at least a short summary [but would you trust me].



Thanks for posting some quotes and since I have not yet read the material, i can only comment and guess at context. As to the first I dont think your conclusion is correct. If you read his letters or bio's i dont think one can say Tolkien objected to truth or held some relative truth. Nor is he one to simply accept majority opinion because the majority accept it. My guess is it seems he went from his early northern mythology [early sillmarillion] and wanted to make it more in line with lotr and it taking place in our actual earth in a historical time period.



Right. Science good, evolution not part of science [but that is another thread]. But he was referring to eleven science and what the elves would know. Tolkien was not a creator but a discoverer, he discovered what these people and places would be based on their language, history etc.


This last one is very, very interesting and deserves thought. Thanks for posting these now i must get the home.


Thanks good post.

[R.R.J Tolkien]

Originally Posted by Huinesoron

Request: Is it possible to move this thread to The Books or Novices and Newcomers? It seems like it would fit better there.

Opening Disclaimer: The original question was what Tolkien believed about the creation of the Earth. A second question of how closely he matched his writings to that belief. Actual discussion of the truth or otherwise of these beliefs isn't relevant, and I for one won't be addressing it.

With that said:

R.R.J. Tolkien, I think you're confusing Morthoron with skip spence here. Skip was also mostly just stating what Tolkien did and felt, rather than their own beliefs; while this did slip over into an assertion ('strong scientific evidence'), the majority of what they said was just a summary of Tolkien's thoughts as seen in Myths Transformed (which is indeed in Morgoth's Ring).

Thanks for the correction and i did apologize to Morthoron, good catch sir thanks.

Originally Posted by Huinesoron

Okay, moving on, I've been rooting through Letters to see what I can find.

Letter 96

Letter 96, as quoted at length by R.R.J., is very clear that Tolkien believed in a literal Fall of Man, and in a historic 'Edenic state' for humanity. Whether this was a garden at the source of four rivers where the first two humans lived in harmony with the animals, or an innocent 'childhood' in the East African Rift Valley (per Legate), isn't strictly clear from the letter; however, Tolkien definitely comes across as thinking the Genesis account is a myth based on a distant reality.

He was answering a question to his son about the reality of the garden and fall as many had rejected it, Tolkien stated he did believe this "myth" [so called] and that from the christian biblical perspective. I think that is clear from the letter. However this does not make him a young earth creationist as another poster pointed out.

Originally Posted by Huinesoron

Letter 153

Letter 153 is a response to a Catholic reader arguing that many things Tolkien did were theologically unsound. It actually has very little bearing on the questions at hand, but does contain this:



The specific reference here is reincarnation, but I find it interesting that Tolkien appears at least open to the possibility that there is other intelligent life in the universe than humanity. Still not strictly relevant, but interesting.

I think this has nothing to do with life outside of the universe, but reincarnation of a hypothetical created being by god.

Originally Posted by Huinesoron

Letter 169



It surprises me just how scathing Tolkien can be about scientific theories, while at the same time accepting them. This comment is typical: he simultaneously refers to them as 'imaginations', while saying he wishes he'd adhered more closely to them!

Agreed, just the reason I wish a in depth book was written on the subject. I think he might have been saying the "imaginations or theories of the geologists" [evolution long ages] is just that, but that he wanted his middle earth in the third age to match more closely the accepted geography of the past by the majority of geologist.

[QUOTE=Huinesoron;711709]
Letter 211

Pterodactyl. Yes and no. I did not intend the steed of the Witch-King to be what is now called a 'pterodactyl', and often is drawn (with rather less shadowy evidence than lies behind many monsters of the new and fascinating semi-scientific mythology of the 'Prehistoric'). But obviously it is pterodactylic and owes much to the new mythology, and its description even provides a sort of way in which it could be a last survivor of older geological eras.5[/]quote]

We encounter again Tolkien's use of the word 'myth' to describe events he believe happened, but were not recorded directly (same usage as for Genesis). This is proof that he was dubious of the specific science of paleontology - but also that he accepted the reality of 'older geological ages' from which a pterosaur-like creature could have sprung. This is similar to the 'elephant of prehistoric size' in Letters 64, though of course the mammoth is much more recent (there were extant mammoths 4000 years ago, which is well into actual, written historical time!).

Agreed this is why i am confused on the issue. He says "semi-scientific mythology of the 'Prehistoric'" and yet seems to accept old ages. This is why i think he was likely some form of old earth creationist. Of course the evolution interpretation could be the "mythology" while the prehsitoric, could be the ages, thus a old earth creationist. Wish I could ask him.

Originally Posted by Huinesoron

Letter 324



I think this goes a long way towards explaining what's up with Tolkien's viewpoint: he was, first and foremost, a literary thinker. His own writings were 'sub-creations'; any account of pre-history was 'mythology', whether scientific or religious; and the most interesting thing about ancient super-continents was the 'poetry' of their names.

Nice.

Originally Posted by Huinesoron

Myths Transformed

The major changes Tolkien wanted to make during the 'Myths Transformed' period, late in his life, were: removing the flat earth period; making the sun (and moon) older than Middle-earth; moving the Awakening of Men back to around the time of the Awakening of the Elves (so that Melkor could corrupt them in person); making Melkor more of an immanent force for evil in the world, and less a single figure; dramatically lengthening the timeline.

On this last point: Tolkien lengthened a Valian Year from ~10 solar years to precisely 144, multiplying the age of Middle-earth by nearly 15. If we assume the timeline here was still valid, then the two Awakenings would have taken place some 650,000 years after Creation. It was then some 72,000 years to the Return of the Noldor, and (from other sources) a good 13,000 years from then to the present day.

Under Tolkien's late ideas, then, Middle-earth is 'now' around 750 thousand years old, and the 'Edenic state' of mankind lies nearly 100,000 years in the past.

I remember that the round-earth, old-sun changes were made to accord with the facts of the Real World (I think at the same time he made the Earth orbit the Sun, rather than the reverse); I don't remember whether the age change was stated to be for the same reason.

Interesting, I cannot comment until i have read it but thanks.

Originally Posted by Huinesoron

The Silmarillion - Nordic or Christian?

Both, obviously. ^_^

Unlike Lewis in The Magician's Nephew, Tolkien never set out to write an allegory for Genesis, or for any other part of the Bible. There are Christian themes and images in Middle-earth - a great many of them, as R.R.J. cites. There are also a lot of Norse themes and images: Tolkien mentions that Smaug is based on Fafnir (Letters 122), that the Dagor Dagorath is more like Ragnarök than 'anything else' (Letters 131), the name and character of Frodo (Letters 168), that Tom Bombadil makes use of some Nibelung material (Letters 237 & 240), Mirkwood (Letters 289), the dwarves (Letters 297)... I'm sure there are many more.

Perhaps the most relevant quote I've found on this matter is Tolkien's comments on Hitler, in Letter 45:



The 'northern spirit', and the Nordic tales, were noble, and worthy of a lifetime of study. Per Letters 15, the very existence of the Silmarillion lent the later stories a 'northern atmosphere'. And Tolkien felt that they could only be improved by being 'sanctified and Christianised'.

Thus the Valar, Norse-style gods in all but name, are viewed through a lens of Christianity, and become angels; the invocations to Elbereth have resonances with Catholic prayers to the saints or indeed Mary to intercede on their behalf; and Gandalf is simultaneously an 'Odinic wanderer' and an angel in the style of Raphael, who met Tobiah on the road and travelled with him.

Tolkien's work doesn't set up a 'Christian good, Pagan bad' dichotomy; rather, it takes both bodies of mythology as sources, and blends them together with linguistics and his own imaginings. It's true that you're more likely to find 'bad' Nordic themes than Christian ones, but there are also many 'good' Nordic-inspired ideas in Middle-earth. Tolkien took it all and cooked up something truly unique, that - as Morthoron said - can be appreciated by anyone, Christian or otherwise.

hS

PS: That said, I find this quote very baffling:

I think you are spot on sir, good post.

Originally Posted by Huinesoron

Staffs associated with Moses have the following powers: turning into snakes, producing water by hitting rocks (which Moses was punished for!), parting oceans, sprouting into trees, and securing victory over enemy armies.

Gandalf's staff... does none of these, nor anything like them. Unless the point Birzer is making is 'neither staff has any actual power, because it all comes from God', I'm not at all sure what he's trying to say.

hS

Good question. I think as you stated, the power originates from eru and not from magic spells. I have not read that in awhile.

[R.R.J Tolkien]

A bit off topic but some other less relevant christian themes. If anyone is looking for a more in depth look at christian themes, get the books refrenced in my op.

Gods in Control

People like Galadrial, Elrond, Tom Bombadil, and Gandalf remind us as Gandalf said “I can put it no plainer than by saying Bilbo was meant to find the ring, and not by its maker. In which case you also were meant to have it. And that may be an encouraging thought.” Like the God of the bible, Eru is involved in providential and guidance; Tolkien called it “Gods management of the drama.” An atheist said to Tolkien, “You create a world in which some sort of faith seems to be everywhere without a visible source, like a light from an invisible lamp.” Tolkien felt a spirit was working through him while writing LOTR, he attributed to god.


Deceptive Appearances

“All that is gold does not glitter, not all those who wander are lost.”
-Lord of the Rings

Detail’s written on Strider make him out to be “The queerest” of all the folk in the prancing pony, yet he would end up being a king and helper. This follows the biblical idea of not looking at the outward appearance, but looking inward. King David was the youngest of the family and most unlikely to be selected king, being a shepherd and not a warrior. But as God says in 1 Samuel 16:6-7 in selecting king David, God does not see outward appearances as man sees, he sees the heart. Another king in the bible, Jesus, was a lowly, poor, working carpenter, born in a manger with no special visual qualities (Isaiah 53:2-3), yet will be the future king of the earth.


Shutting out the Night

“Come dear folk...laugh and be merry...let us shut out the night. Fear nothing”
-Goldberry addressing Hobbits, LOTR

With all the dark danger of the old Forrest around and them being chased, the Hobbits are able to put the fear away because of the love and grace poured out by Tom Bombadil, the most ancient and powerful light. Good can drive out evil, Nehemiah 8:10 & 1 John 4:18.

Often Overlooked

“We always seem to get left out of the old lists and old stories.”
-Merry speaking to Treebeard, LOTR

The Hobbits were often overlooked by the outside world, where they were referred to as “Halflings.” Saouron overlooked them until the discovery of the ring. Yet they were chosen of all the free peoples for the most important task. Throughout the bible God chooses people of weakness to do his tasks, such as Joseph, Moses, David, the twelve disciples, etc. 1 Corinthians 1:26-29.

The First-Adam / Last-Adam connection

“Aragorn’s distant ancestor was King Isildur. Isildur had the opportunity to destroy the ring, but he instead succumbed to temptation and kept the ring for himself. This led to his death, and plunged the world into an age of darkness, much as Adam’s sin brought death and suffering into the world. But Aragorn succeeds where his forefather failed. Aragorn does not succumb to temptation. He is not tempted by the glory and power the ring promises (see Matthew 4:8-10), but wants only to save the world from the evil bestowed upon it by his ancestor. After conquering evil, Aragorn is officially installed as the king. Likewise, Christ came into the world to save people from sin; Christ succeeded where Adam failed. Christ defeats evil and is installed as King” (Psalm 2:6-9)
-Jason Lisle the Gospel in Hollywood


Hidden Courage

“There is a seed of courage hidden waiting for some final desperate danger to come along to make it grow.”
-LOTR

Hobbits are small, friendly, peaceful people, enjoying the fruits of life; like drink, beer, food, parties and extended sleep. Not the worrier kind of folk like Dwarves and Strider. Yet over and over again the Hobbits perform great acts of courage against all odds. The small ordinary Hobbits do extraordinary things that most men of Rohan or Gondor would be scared to do. They choose self sacrifice over self preservation and enjoyment. In the Bible when David was fighting Goliath, he was just a small boy (shortest of 8 brothers) and a shepherd. None of the grown men in the army wished to face Goliath, yet a small shepherd did, and against all odds defeated the giant.


Redemption

“When things are in danger someone has to give them up, lose them so that others may keep them.”
-Frodo speaking to Sam, LOTR

Frodo was willing to sacrifice his own good and his life on Middle Earth to save the Shire and all of Middle Earth. Jesus’ death on the cross was when he gave up his life for ours.


Saved on the Wings of Eagles Exodus 19:4

Many times in the Hobbit and the LOTR good peoples are saved on the wings of eagles, literally. Such as with Frodo and Sam on Mount Doom, Gandalf on Isengard, and the Dwarves, Bilbo, and Gandalf in the Hobit.

The Ring

“The ring seems to represent sin. It answers only to Sauron, a nonphysical enemy representing Satan. Like sin, the ring is superficially attractive, desirable, and gives its wearer great power. But it inevitably destroys its wearer and enslaves him to the evil Sauron. Those who have been in possession of the ring find it nearly impossible to give up, even though it slowly destroys them.”
-Jason Lisle the Gospel in Hollywood


Gospel the True Tale

“If literature teaches us anything at all, it is this that we have in us an eternal element.”
-J.R.R Tolkien

“Myth, Tolkien believed, allowed us to see things as they were meant to be, prior to the Fall.
-Bradley Birzer J.R.R Tolkien s Sanctifying Myth


Tolkien said of the gospel, that Jesus, God in flesh, died on the cross to pay the penalty for our sins. “There is no tale ever told that men would rather find was true, and none which so many skeptical men have accepted as true on its own merits...to reject it leads either to madness or to wrath,” Tolkien went on to say, “This story is supreme and is true. Art has been verified. God is the lord of angels, and of men and of elves, legend and history have met and fused.” Tolkien viewed the gospel as a story that entered history, a true story. “The resurrection…was the greatest fairy story…the gospels tell a fairy story, by the greatest author, who is the supreme artist and author of reality.” Also believing that “The only just literary critic is Christ,” because of “the gifts he himself bestowed.”


“He [Tolkien] created a body of work that is imbued with a profound wisdom-a wisdom that our civilization desperately needs-drawn very largely from the Catholic faith in which he was raised.”**
-Secret Fire: The Spiritual Vision of J.R.R. Tolkien*by Stratford Caldecott