The New Shadow

[Findegil]

NS-SL-07: Okay ‘Satanistic’ might not be good, but I would rather look for Letter 338 for a replacement. Anyhow we should give as well the information that this story would mark the end of Eldarions regin:

… {I found that even}Even so early there was an outcrop of revolutionary plots, about a centre of secret NS-SL-07b{Satanistic religion}<Letter 338 societies practising dark cults>; while Gondorian boys were playing at being Orcs and going round doing damage. {I could have written a 'thriller'}We only know that the tale was about the plot and its discovery and overthrow{ – but it would be just that. Not worth doing.} NS-SL-08 <Letter 338{Except the beginning of a tale}and that it was supposed to refer to the end of the reign of Eldarion{ about 100 years after the death of Aragorn}.>

NS-SL-01: I think we have to do something about the dating of this tale. If we take the dating of Letter 338, Borlas would be about 230 years old. As Aragorn is called an exception being 210 when he died, this is unbelievable. We may consider that we have only the beginning of the tale, maybe Borlas and Saelon were just to start the story and at least Borlas would be soon out of it, long being dead befor the cumulation of the staory with the over through of the plot and the end of the regin of Eldarion in the year FA 220. In Note 7 we have the years given in all the manuscripts and typosscripts of the The New Shaodow, I give them in chronological order of writing:
Original draft: ‘less than one hundered and twenty years since the fall of the Dark Tower’ => FA 108 => 8 years after Elessars Death
Mansuscript A and B: ‘’Nearly one hundered and ten years had passed since the fall of the Dark Tower’ => FA 118 => 18 years after Elessars Death
Letter 256 from 1964: ‘about 100 years after the Downfall‘ => FA 98 => 2 years before Elessars death
Typoasscipt C1 is the same as A & B. => FA 118 => 2 years before Elessars Death
Typosscript C2: ‘One hundred and five years had passed since the fall of the Dark Tower’ => FA 103 => 17 years before Elessars Death
Letter 338 from 1972: ‘about 100 years after the death of Aragorn’ => FA 220

Up to the second edition of the LotR published in 1966 Aragorns death was in FA 100, then it was changed FA 120, That means we have to discard FA 98 and FA 103 as being to early since in both circumstances Elessar would still be alive. If we calculate rather with the death of Aragorn, then the Fall of Barad-dûr I would go with the 18 years and would place the conversation between Borlas and Saelon in FA 138. Borlas would then be about 148 years old. Which I find a good age for a retired Númenorean. And when we take Letter 338 serious that Eldarion regin up to FA 220, we would have a story line covering about 82 years. Long, but not impossible I think.
But I think all that is too much specific and to introduce it would take to much liberty with the text. So I suppose we take an unspecific ‘Many years’ instead of any number.

Respectfully
Findegil

[ArcusCalion]

Agreed to both, and nice layout of all the textual difficulties.

[gandalf85]

I agree with the ambiguous "Many years" instead of specifically dating the text, since Tolkien never seemed to come to a satisfactory date which makes sense. I only have a few comments:

1) I am currently taking "Intro to Anglo Saxon" from Signum University, so grammar has been on the brain lately. NS-SL-02.5 and NS-SL-03 do not form a complete sentence with subject and predicate; instead, it has a subject and then several dependent clauses.

NS-SL-02.5 <moved from below {Since his son, Berelach,}After his last visit he had gone away again in April.> Saelon, who formerly came only when Berelach NS-SL-03 [who had] been his old friend was with Borlas, but had been most attentive when he was in Emyn Arnen. {Always in to talk or bring news, or run any service he could}>

"Saelon" being the subject and the three bits starting with "who" and "but" being dependent clauses. I think we have to remove the "but". I also think we should keep the next sentence since Tolkien never rejected it:

NS-SL-02.5 <moved from below {Since his son, Berelach,}After his last visit he had gone away again in April.> Saelon, who formerly came only when Berelach NS-SL-03 [who had] been his old friend was with Borlas, {but} had been most attentive when he was in Emyn Arnen. He was {A}always in to talk or bring news, or run any service he could.> >

2) In the end we talk about the source "we have". I'm not sure if we have used "we" or "us" to refer to a modern audience like this, but I actually like it, especially when used at the very end of the narrative. I also think it works nicely with the ending Arcus had suggested for the last chapter (which contains "us"); I think we should use it at the very end here, after a line break:

NS-SL-09 <Appendix A Here ends this tale, as it has come to us {from the South}; and {with the passing of Evenstar} no more is said in this book of the days of old.>

[ArcusCalion]

1) I agree to remove the but, but I removed that later sentence because the same info is repeated in the return to the original text later on:

He went much about the lands of late. Borlas was not sure of his business, though he understood that, among other interests, he dealt in timber. He brought news from all over the kingdom to his old friend. Or to his friend's old father; for Berelach had been his constant companion at one time, though they seemed seldom to meet nowadays.

To keep the smaller sentence in thus seems redundant to me.

2) I agree this works nicely here.

[gandalf85]

1) Ahh, got it, I missed the fact that it was repeated.

[Findegil]

1) I don’t think that the info is quiet the same, so I would let that last sentence stand as gandalf85 edited it.

2) Agreed. But I would like to a bit more, found in a quiet different place:

NS-SL-05 <End Comment of The New Shadow Here{, both in A and B, The New Shadow}the source we have ends, and it will never be known what Borlas found in his dark and silent house, nor what part Saelon was playing and what his intentions were.> NS-SL-05.5 <UT, Istari It is said that in {later}these days (when again a shadow of evil arose in the Kingdom) it was believed by many of the "Faithful" of that time that "Gandalf" was the last appearance of Manwë himself, before his final withdrawal to the watchtower of Taniquetil. (That Gandalf said that his name "in the West" had been Olórin was, according to this belief, the adoption of an incognito, a mere by-name.) {I}We do not (of course) know the truth of the matter, and if {I}we did it would be a mistake to be more explicit than Gandalf was. But {I think}probably it was not so. Manwë will not descend from the Mountain until Dagor Dagorath, and the coming of the End, when Melkor returns. To the overthrow of Morgoth he sent his herald Eönwë. To the defeat of Sauron would he not then send some lesser (but mighty) spirit of the angelic people, one coëval and equal, doubtless, with Sauron in their beginnings, but not more? Olórin was his name. But of Olórin we shall never know more than he revealed in Gandalf.> NS-SL-06b <Letter 256{I did begin a story placed about 100 years after the Downfall [of Mordor], but it}[b]But we know that this tale[/u] proved both sinister and depressing. Since we are dealing with Men it is inevitable that we should be concerned with the most regrettable feature of their nature: their quick satiety with good. So that the people of Gondor in times of peace, justice and prosperity, would become discontented and restless – while the dynasts descended from Aragorn would become just kings and governors – like Denethor or worse. {I found that even}Even so early there was an outcrop of revolutionary plots, about a centre of secret NS-SL-07b{Satanistic religion}<Letter 338 societies practising dark cults>; while Gondorian boys were playing at being Orcs and going round doing damage. {I could have written a 'thriller'}We only know that the tale was about the plot and its discovery and overthrow{ – but it would be just that. Not worth doing.} NS-SL-08 <Letter 338{Except the beginning of a tale}and that it was supposed to refer to the end of the reign of Eldarion{ about 100 years after the death of Aragorn}.>ETA-SL-26<Appendix A

Here ends this tale, as it has come to us{ from the South}; and{ with the passing of Evenstar} no more is said in this book of the days of old.>

Respectfully
Findegil

[gandalf85]

I like the addition of the bit about Gandalf. If my username doesn't give it away, he's my favorite character from any work of fiction, so I'm absolutely on board with ending the entire mythology with a discussion of Gandalf. But I think Fin's placement of it breaks the flow of the discussion about the ending of the New Shadow. I would place it after the discussion, like so:

NS-SL-05 <End Comment of The New Shadow Here{, both in A and B, The New Shadow}the source we have ends...the end of the reign of Eldarion{ about 100 years after the death of Aragorn}.>
NS-SL-05.5 <UT, Istari It is said that in {later}these days ...But of Olórin we shall never know more than he revealed in Gandalf.>
NS-SL-08 <Appendix A Here ends this tale, as it has come to us {from the South}; and {with the passing of Evenstar} no more is said in this book of the days of old.>