"The Fall of Gondolin" Due Out August 30th, 2018

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by skip spence

Sooo... Hasn't anyone of you guys gone and bought it yet? And maybe even read it? *curious*

I haven't yet, though I ordered the HC from Amazon. Honestly, the day of release came and went without my noting. Stupid RL.

[Kuruharan]

1) I would like to express my gratitude that Tolkien abandoned the term "Gnomes" for the Noldor. I realize this is a post facto preference because if he hadn't I would have never know, but every time I read that it resonates in my brain like the unholy child of the sound of a snapping harp string and fingernails on a chalkboard.

2) While Tolkien's writing clearly evolved and improved over his career, reading The Fall of Gondolin gave me an impression that in some undefinable way his writing lost some of its connection to Faerie. The world of The Lost Tales feels more perilous than Middle-earth as it ultimately developed. To some extent this is possibly due to greater familiarity with the final realization than the early stages of Middle-earth's development. With this in mind I re-read some of the passages and the impression still remains. Perhaps Tolkien himself became too familiar with it and some of the magic of Faerie vanished over time.

3) I found it curious that Alan Lee portrayed Tuor in hide clothing on the front cover when viewing Gondolin for the first time and on the back over (as well as in the book itself) when Ulmo appears to him. He was already dressed in Turgon's armor at those points.

Oh well.

At least his balrog doesn't have wings (even if it is too big, in my opinion).

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by Kuruharan

While Tolkien's writing clearly evolved and improved over his career, reading The Fall of Gondolin gave me an impression that in some undefinable way his writing lost some of its connection to Faerie. The world of The Lost Tales feels more perilous than Middle-earth as it ultimately developed. To some extent this is possibly due to greater familiarity with the final realization than the early stages of Middle-earth's development. With this in mind I re-read some of the passages and the impression still remains. Perhaps Tolkien himself became too familiar with it and some of the magic of Faerie vanished over time.

I found myself rather unhappy with the early versions of the story, as least as far as Tuor's coming to Gondolin is concerned, and much prefer the 1951 rewrite. Maybe that's due to the fact that that version (as given in Unfinished Tales) has a special resonance for me. The entire story is enthralling, and the depiction of Tuor first seeing the Great Sea, and Ulmo's words to him at Vinyamar, are especially vivid in my imagination.

Originally Posted by Kuruharan

At least his balrog doesn't have wings (even if it is too big, in my opinion).

If Eru had meant for Balrogs to fly, they'd have been Eagles.

[Huinesoron]

I'm currently in mid-read (Tuor has just half-carried Ecthelion to safety after killing five Balrogs), but some comments here struck a chord:

Originally Posted by Kuruharan

2) While Tolkien's writing clearly evolved and improved over his career, reading The Fall of Gondolin gave me an impression that in some undefinable way his writing lost some of its connection to Faerie. The world of The Lost Tales feels more perilous than Middle-earth as it ultimately developed. To some extent this is possibly due to greater familiarity with the final realization than the early stages of Middle-earth's development. With this in mind I re-read some of the passages and the impression still remains. Perhaps Tolkien himself became too familiar with it and some of the magic of Faerie vanished over time.

Originally Posted by Inziladun

I found myself rather unhappy with the early versions of the story, as least as far as Tuor's coming to Gondolin is concerned, and much prefer the 1951 rewrite. Maybe that's due to the fact that that version (as given in Unfinished Tales) has a special resonance for me. The entire story is enthralling, and the depiction of Tuor first seeing the Great Sea, and Ulmo's words to him at Vinyamar, are especially vivid in my imagination.

In true Elvish fashion, I agree with both of you. The Unfinished Tales Of Tuor is a beautiful piece, and its descriptions and the way the events are structured are much better, to me, than those of the original Fall. But... the Gondolin of the Lost Tales is much more meaningful, I think, in a mythic way.

The Of Tuor Gondolin is a hidden city - one of several across Beleriand. It's home to a bunch of elves, and is one of the last peaceful places in Beleriand at a time when the rest of the Noldor are holed up on Balar, at the Havens, or down by Amon Ereb.

But the Gondolin of the Lost Tales is the last refuge. The rest of the Noldoli are slaves of Morgoth. The Dark Lord rules everything - except this one city, a hidden realm of peace which the slaves can long to run to. It's a rumour, whispered of in the mines; a legend, a myth, its only entrance the elusive, magically-concealed Way of Escape. The message Tuor brings from Ulmo enhances its mythic stature even more: if the Gondolindrim will only break their concealment and go to war, the scourge of the Orcs will be ended forever, and Melkor will fade to a whisper of malice on the wind.

Back in the day, my interest in the Fall of Gondolin was focussed on the Fall itself. Now, with this new book, I'm coming to appreciate just how special the city was in its original conception: why its name still lingered on in Middle-earth thousands of years later. Not just a hidden city, not just a last redoubt - but an Otherworld in the hills, a hope for those living in darkness, and an unfulfilled chance of Arda Renewed.

... which links it very nicely to a couple of other points from the Book of Lost Tales. The foreseen ending of at least one version of the Tales was for the elves of Eressea to undertake a great Faring Forth, to rekindle the Magic Sun and redeem the earth and their kindred... and to fail, and fade, leaving the world to Mankind. Like Beren and Luthien's departure, the theme that even the most beautiful and perfect of things will fall is a strong one in the original Gondolin.

And that leads right back to the Doom of Mandos, and the line which inexplicably doesn't appear in the retelling of the Fall of the Noldor at the beginning of the new book:

"Great is the Fall of Gondolin."

hS

[Kuruharan]

Originally Posted by Huinesoron

if the Gondolindrim will only break their concealment and go to war, the scourge of the Orcs will be ended forever, and Melkor will fade to a whisper of malice on the wind.

That bit struck me as being decidedly unlike Tolkien.

[Huinesoron]

Originally Posted by Kuruharan

That bit struck me as being decidedly unlike Tolkien.

I thought it hewed very closely to the Silm theme that most evil in the world doesn't come from the Dark Lord, but from the Children of Iluvatar doing things which could be classified as 'extremely stupid'. Think of the great cities of Beleriand: Menegroth, Nargothrond, Himring, Gondolin. None of them were taken by Morgoth by sheer force of arms - every single one of them was betrayed from within. Thingol's greed, Turin's hubris, Ulfang's treachery, Maeglin's jealousy - these were the causes of Beleriand's fall, not the strength of Angband.

We're told this explicitly in the Silmarillion, of the Nirnaeth:

Some have said that even then the Eldar might have won the day, had all their hosts proved faithful; for the Orcs wavered, and their onslaught was stayed, and already some were turning to flight. But even as the vanguard of Maedhros came upon the Orcs, Morgoth loosed his last strength, and Angband was emptied. There came wolves, and wolfriders, and there came Balrogs, and dragons, and Glaurung father of dragons. The strength and terror of the Great Worm were now great indeed, and Elves and Men withered before him; and he came between the hosts of Maedhros and Fingon and swept them apart.

Yet neither by wolf, nor by Balrog, nor by Dragon, would Morgoth have achieved his end, but for the treachery of Men.

And this is a theme that echoes all down the tales of the Elder Days. Why did Numenor fall? Because its inhabitants grew prideful. Why did Khazad-dum turn black? Because the dwarves delved 'too greedily'. Why were the Noldor doomed to such great anguish? Because they slaughtered their kin in Alqualonde. Why, in fact, did Melkor ever return to Arda? Because Tulkas let the watch on the Walls of Night fail.

You're right that this idea that 'we could fix this if we didn't keep doing the wrong thing' doesn't really apply to the Third Age writings. But for the Silmarillion, and especially for the Book of Lost Tales, it is a strong theme that Tolkien never lets up on.

hS

PS: On balrogs, I was interested to see how much description we actually get of them. They have iron claws, iron helms, and shoot darts of fire as well as wielding their fiery whips.

... now I just want to know why Alan Lee decided to draw a tail on the one Glorfindel is fighting??

hS

[Kuruharan]

Originally Posted by Huinesoron

I thought it hewed very closely to the Silm theme that most evil in the world doesn't come from the Dark Lord, but from the Children of Iluvatar doing things which could be classified as 'extremely stupid'. Think of the great cities of Beleriand: Menegroth, Nargothrond, Himring, Gondolin. None of them were taken by Morgoth by sheer force of arms - every single one of them was betrayed from within. Thingol's greed, Turin's hubris, Ulfang's treachery, Maeglin's jealousy - these were the causes of Beleriand's fall, not the strength of Angband.

I guess I should clarify that I meant that it seemed un-Tolkien to me that Turgon could have defeated Morgoth by force of arms.

Although, I had forgotten about the references to the possibility of victory in the Battle of Unnumbered Tears except for treachery.

PS: On balrogs, I was interested to see how much description we actually get of them. They have iron claws, iron helms, and shoot darts of fire as well as wielding their fiery whips.

... now I just want to know why Alan Lee decided to draw a tail on the one Glorfindel is fighting??

hS

In an early draft there was an obscure reference to a balrog's whip being "like a tail."