Tidbits of Curiosity

[Huinesoron]

Originally Posted by Urwen

I want to write a story inspired by these two songs and I want to know who the main character should be.

I think I've said before that I'm not all that into music questions, but since you asked nicely (elsewhere), and since I'm already vaguely familiar with the songs, okay...

-Is The Dark Elf one of the narrative/non-lyrical songs? The link you give only provides one line ("A dark seed of evil is grown"), which certainly sounds like those tracks (the most hilarious is 'Lammoth', which is just a 20 second scream). Anyway, the title certainly points at Eol, since it's his usual moniker.

-Thorn is said by Wikipedia to be about Maeglin in captivity, and I can't argue. Look at these lines:

Come follow me
And you will see
How it will be
When all the pain is gone away

I'm lost in the depths of his eyes
I can't flee
Inner pain caused insanity
It's deep within
The fear and the hunger
Enslaved and denied
By my love and my enemies
I'm the illgotten son

That latter quote is just a paraphrase of the idea that Morgoth put a shadow of fear in Maeglin's heart before he sent him back. It specifically doesn't work for Turin, because he was never caught by anyone's eyes (that was Nienor), and wasn't denied by either of his canonical loves (rather, he denied Finduilas).

Have you listened to the whole album? I admit to mostly liking Nightfall itself, but there's some good stuff on there.

hS

[Urwen]

Yes, I have listened to the whole album.

What got me thinking is this single lyric:

The dark seed of evil is sown/grown

The book says something similar about Maeglin.

What if there is a deeper meaning behind that?

It is stated in the book that Morgoth feared Turgon more than anything else? What if he took a more proactive role in bringing about his demise, using one of the Elves he stole from Cuivinen? He had one of his Orcs rape her, and she gave birth to Eol, who in turn, ensnared Aredhel, who gave birth to Maeglin. Why would he do this? Simple, to bring Maeglin into the world as his instrument against Turgon and his line.

That would also explain why he didn't torture him as badly as the other prisoners. Maeglin had been programmed to aid him from the get go. It was in his blood, and therefore he knew Maeglin wouldn't defy him as easily.

And when Maeglin was old enough, Morgoth instilled within him a desire to seek out Gondolin, just as Ulmo did with Tuor, as well as a desire to possess Idril, thus ensuring his path as the bringer of destruction for Gondolin, Turgon and Turgon's line.

Maeglin was literally programmed to betray Gondolin, and that's what 'the dark seed of evil' line (both in the song and the book) really means.

[Urwen]

Please share your thoughts on this.

[Andsigil]

Originally Posted by Urwen

It was in his blood, and therefore he knew Maeglin wouldn't defy him as easily.

So, you're saying genetics determines behavior?

That stance is going to earn you a bit of dislike from... certain groups.

[Urwen]

Sometimes it does, according to several sources. Plus, in case you didn't notice from my recent posts, I am not anti-Maeglin, I am pro-Maeglin.

[Galadriel55]

Originally Posted by Urwen

Sometimes it does, according to several sources. Plus, in case you didn't notice from my recent posts, I am not anti-Maeglin, I am pro-Maeglin.

But why do you think it's impossible to be pro-Maeglin without rewriting his story all the time? You keep trying to change his story to make excuses for him. Well, he did bad things, and it was his fault, and a made up excuse is not going to change that. Doesn't mean he's not an interesting character. By trying to explain away a character's shortcomings and blaming them on external sources you are actually making them a more boring character.


As for this specific theory, that implies Morgoth knew that Aredhel would be wandering about in that particular region of the world, and that Eol would have to know it too and marry her with the purpose of desteoying Gondolin... Not too complicated?

And dark seeds of evil. What's wrong with the more conventional interpretation of corrupted thought or spirit?

[Urwen]

Why do I keep doing it, you ask? Well, it is because I am pro-Maeglin, and hence I don't want him to die.

[Galadriel55]

Originally Posted by Urwen

Why do I keep doing it, you ask? Well, it is because I am pro-Maeglin, and hence I don't want him to die.

That's like being pro-gravity and not wanting things to fall. If you like the character the way he was written, why would you want to change the way he was written?

Also, spoiler, but he still dies.

So I still don't get it. *shrugs*