Tol-in-Gaurhoth CXIV – The Evil Breath of Morgoth in Dor-lómin, game thread

[Urwen]

I think you missed one of my posts.

[Huinesoron]

Originally Posted by Boro

Brinn my suspicions today really aren't based on anything you said or did yesterday. Your vote is "neutral" in it can't determine wolf or not.

Originally Posted by Boro, same post

Rikae's innocent. Night killed. Set an intentional trap. Maybe it caught an innocent, ok possible. But there's no reason to think Rikae had malicious intent. And there's no reason to believe Rikae was lying about it.

I find 'It's nothing you did yesterDay, it's just that you fell into a trap yesterDay' quite suspicious.

Originally Posted by Kitanna

I'd say Eonwe and Mac are the most suspicious to me right now.
Eonwe: His vote was really what gets me. It just looked like a classic vote to keep his hands clean. I want to keep a close eye on him for it.

I can see finding a quiet person with a throwaway vote suspicious, but "most suspicous" sounds a little strong. Is there really nobody in the village you find more suspicious for what they've said, besides Mac?

Urwen - welcome to the game.

hS

[Kitanna]

Originally Posted by Huin

I can see finding a quiet person with a throwaway vote suspicious, but "most suspicous" sounds a little strong. Is there really nobody in the village you find more suspicious for what they've said, besides Mac?

Since I haven't finished looking in-depth at everyone, no. These are the two I've formed a strong opinion on. Sorry you don't approve of my method for a reread.

[Huinesoron]

Originally Posted by Kitanna

Since I haven't finished looking in-depth at everyone, no. These are the two I've formed a strong opinion on. Sorry you don't approve of my method for a reread.

Oh, ha, sorry, I glossed over the 'of those I've read through'. (Worse - I caught it, went back to look at who you had read, found your discussion of Eonwe and forgot what I was looking for.) That makes more sense then.

hS

[Boromir88]

Originally Posted by Huinesoron

I find 'It's nothing you did yesterDay, it's just that you fell into a trap yesterDay' quite suspicious

hS

Sneaking on for a quick comment addressing this...
“In the light of yesterday”...yesterday did not know Rikae’s role. Did not know their guilt or innocent, so could have been a nefarious trap set by a wolf. Now I know it was an innocent trap set for a wolf. Possible it snagged an innocent Brinn? Ok, but I prefer not to argue with myself.

[Pitchwife]

Urwen, since you're apparently here, is there anybody you suspect?

Originally Posted by Huinesoron

I find 'It's nothing you did yesterDay, it's just that you fell into a trap yesterDay' quite suspicious.

See, and this is again the same kind of distorting abbreviation I called you out on before, and it's starting to make me uneasy, whether it's about me or Boro or whosoever. [If it's nothing she did yesterDay, then it's probably something she did toDay, right?] It may be just hasty reading on your part, or it may be a method. *ping*

Macs paranoia about being framed toDay reminds me of his overreaction to Hui yesterDay (when Hui was actually semi-defending him) AND what he said about himself being nervous if a wolf.

Originally Posted by Lhuna quoting Zil quoting Kit

Ditto. I'm kind of wondering how she's still alive. My reasoning goes round in circles but hovers more over somewhere unsettling.

I third this. [Zil, my eyebrow raised at you earlier was me doubting you should have drawn attention to it, but it's out in the open now anyway.] It would have been very bold of a wolf to react this way to a gifted reveal, but it would have been very bold of an innocent too.

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by Pitchwife

I third this. [Zil, my eyebrow raised at you earlier was me doubting you should have drawn attention to it, but it's out in the open now anyway.] It would have been very bold of a wolf to react this way to a gifted reveal, but it would have been very bold of an innocent too.

It could hardly have stayed hidden. Thing is, the only way she could have known G55 wasn't who she claimed was if she was the Ranger herself. If that's the case, why on Arda would Rikae have been a better target over Kit (unless the Wolves indeed were antsy Rikae might be the Seer)?

[Pitchwife]

But seriously, Kit, if that is so, how are you alive? Another framing attempt?

[Kitanna]

Originally Posted by Pitchwife

But seriously, Kit, if that is so, how are you alive? Another framing attempt?

I'm surprised myself. And if people don't believe me, then I'm not sure what to say.
Because honestly, I had a crap RL day and seeing G55's fake reveal sent me over the edge and I stupidly had a knee-jerk reaction. And that's all I'm going to say. I thought I'd be pegged in the night. I wasn't. So either people believe me or they don't. Either way, I'm going to continue to plug along in my reread.

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by Pitchwife

But seriously, Kit, if that is so, how are you alive? Another framing attempt?

That's what I can't fathom. Does it give Rikae-as-possible-Seer more weight? Or could it point to a very bold Kitwolf?

[Inziladun]

My leaning is that Rikae was targeted for Seer-suspicion. I don't see better lynch candidates today than those she might have made uneasy (yes, I know I was somewhat in that group).

x/d with Huey

[Kitanna]

[QUOTE=Pitchwife]

Originally Posted by Lhuna

I third this. [Zil, my eyebrow raised at you earlier was me doubting you should have drawn attention to it, but it's out in the open now anyway.] It would have been very bold of a wolf to react this way to a gifted reveal, but it would have been very bold of an innocent too.

First, the quote within the quote within the quote, what a formatting nightmare. Second, I was just going to ignore Inzil and hope no one else brought it up. But I knew G55 was a Liar McLiarFace with her pants set ablaze.

[Lhunardawen]

Originally Posted by Kitanna

First, the quote within the quote within the quote, what a formatting nightmare. Second, I was just going to ignore Inzil and hope no one else brought it up. But I knew G55 was a Liar McLiarFace with her pants set ablaze.

But it is also kind of entrancing, isn't it?

Sorry, not sorry.

How? As an ordo your certainty can only be asymptotic to 100% AT BEST. But I didn't think you would be so careless? flippant? bold? as to post that if you 100% knew for sure, if you get my meaning. Hence my reasoning in circles.

Edit: Or as a wolf, for that matter

[Pitchwife]

Originally Posted by Kitanna

I'm surprised myself. And if people don't believe me, then I'm not sure what to say.
Because honestly, I had a crap RL day and seeing G55's fake reveal sent me over the edge and I stupidly had a knee-jerk reaction. And that's all I'm going to say. I thought I'd be pegged in the night. I wasn't. So either people believe me or they don't. Either way, I'm going to continue to plug along in my reread.

OK, I must say this kind of makes sense, or at least I'm inclined to believe Kit for now. It would really make no sense for a wolf to stick their neck out like that, because

• if G55 died as the Ranger, she would come under fire the next Day, and
• if G55 died as an ordo (or cobbler), we'd question how Kit could have known that, as we do now.

Why would she needlessly put herself into this predicament?


Anyway, I move we leave Kit alone for now. Let's see how long the wolves can afford to let a Ranger live.

[Huinesoron]

Originally Posted by Pitchwife

Anyway, I move we leave Kit alone for now. Let's see how long the wolves can afford to let a Ranger live.

Timeline check: cross-posted with me (6 minutes earlier), or written after seeing it?

hS

[Huinesoron]

Originally Posted by Pitchwife

See, and this is again the same kind of distorting abbreviation I called you out on before, and it's starting to make me uneasy, whether it's about me or Boro or whosoever. [If it's nothing she did yesterDay, then it's probably something she did toDay, right?] It may be just hasty reading on your part, or it may be a method. *ping*

Distorting, or revealing? Boro's post (this is #363) does indeed lay out his reasons for suspecting Brinn on the basis of toDay, and if that's all it did, then 'it's not what you did yesterDay' would stand up perfectly fine. But then, after making that explanation, and after a digression onto his own behaviour, he discusses Rikae's trap. I elided the parts in between to highlight the contradiction they seemed like they could be trying to disguise.

It really feels like he's trying to have his cake and eat it too: he wants to argue that his suspicions of Brinn are based solely on her actions toDay, but he also wants the legitimacy of 'look, our confirmed innocent caught her!'.

When pressed about it, he said:

Originally Posted by Boro

“In the light of yesterday”...yesterday did not know Rikae’s role. Did not know their guilt or innocent, so could have been a nefarious trap set by a wolf. Now I know it was an innocent trap set for a wolf. Possible it snagged an innocent Brinn?

Which makes perfect sense - but isn't what his original post actually said. There's a big difference between 'I didn't suspect you yesterday' and 'I don't suspect you on the basis of what you did yesterday'. Boro is claiming the former while stating the latter.

... or at least, I think there's a big difference. If other people read Boro's 'not based on yesterday' to mean more the former, then perhaps I'm just misreading.

Looking at the crossposts: do we really want to be pressing Kitanna for more information? Fine if she's a wolf, but otherwise isn't it better to keep the wolves guessing?

hS

[Lhunardawen]

Originally Posted by Huinesoron

Looking at the crossposts: do we really want to be pressing Kitanna for more information? Fine if she's a wolf, but otherwise isn't it better to keep the wolves guessing?

Not so much pressing her for information as loudly wondering how she's alive and if she has anything to say about it.

[satansaloser2005]

Good morning, fellow healthy friends! Here and reading.

[Lhunardawen]

Originally Posted by Pitchwife

Anyway, I move we leave Kit alone for now. Let's see how long the wolves can afford to let a Ranger live.

My thinking was more along the lines of she might either know who the Ranger is, or be unable to commit suicide at Night. But I agree with moving on for now.

[Thinlómien]

I'll make another list to address my thoughts about everyone but before that - yes, my comment about wolves reading the thread at Night was a bit tongue-in-cheek (hence the Merisu smiley) and I wouldn't have made it if I didn't suspect both Mac and Boro to a degree, but I'm gonna backtrack a little and say it was a somewhat stupid comment. Just because I'm so lazy I basically never read the thread at Night when innocent doesn't mean someone else couldn't - especially in a game with the qt where your effort isn't wasted if you're killed the Night you spent reading other people's posts. And especially since this village is crazy big and there's a lot to read.

~*~

GREEN

Legate - seems like he and his thought processes have nothing to hide, also like I said the wolves may have thought Rikae was a seer who dreamt of him.

Kath - still don't have much of a reason to suspect her, so ignoring her for now bc to put it quite frankly, I can't pay attention to everyone in a village this big.

Lhuna - I get an innocent vibe from her posts toDay especially, and she's making me giggle way too much to lynch her just yet.

Inzil - idk, seems innocent to me, usually I get wolfier vibes if he's a wolf...? Also I have the vague feeling people are poking at him in hopes of finding an easy target, especially in regards to grouping him with Lottie, whom I find much more suspicious. Extra worrisome if Lottie is a wolf.

Kitanna - I trust her, and if that wasn't enough, my ill-timed reread of her posts yesterDay made her look rather innocent to me already.

Rune - leaning innocent based on my yesterDay's quick reread, hasn't done anything eyebrow-raising since.

THE Ka - she just generally gives me solid, reasonable, innocent vibe and like with Kath, I see no reason to start second-guessing myself about it right now when 2/3 of the village seem more suspicious to me and that's plenty to consider already.


YELLOW

Huinesoron - everytime I read a post of theirs, I'm like 80% "how does your brain work that way???" but that doesn't mean they have guilty brain, just that they have different brain from me. I'm aware I kind give them the benefit of doubt based on this endlessly, but for the time being I'm not too worried about any particular thing.

Pitchwife - fishy yesterDay, then seemed innocenter enough by the end of the Day that I didn't want to see him lynched, then seemed fishy again earlier toDay, and now I'm again getting a good vibe? Ehhhhhhhhhhhh......

Greenie - I agree with her posts very much, but I'm unsure what to make of how "safely" she is playing, especially if neither of Mac or Brinn is a wolf, and Rikae was killed for another reason altogether. (Possible. Like I said, they could've just given "nervous gifted" vibes, and if you look at their posts, I personally think innocent!Legate looks the most like a seer dream. Of course, a wolf!Mac or a wolf!Brinn or their packmates might see the posts in a different light.)

Boro - I was very suspicious of his weird style yesterDay, and toDay continued the same way until #363 sounded suddenly completely like the normal Boro I'm used to, most likely an innocent version. So I'm willing to wait and see how this develops.

Urwen - well, not much to go on. I don't particularly suspect her, but I'd like a clear statement if she's willing to try and play or not...?

Lalaith - still too quiet to judge (even if the reasons are understandable), but feels more innocent than not. However, has fooled me in the past...

Brinniel - not quite sure what to make out of all the drama around her. Her being innocent would sort of make more sense to me in relation to everyone and like I said, I kinda doubt her pack would have considered Rikae the likeliest seer, unless it's something like Brinn, Urwen, Lalaith, Sally and Rune and there wasn't much about anyone of them that could have triggered seer panic. I'm still unsure though because a lot of Brinn's posts nonetheless sit wrong with me, BUT I do remember a game where she was innocent and came under heavy suspicion and her reaction was very much like this and people latched onto it the same way they (myself included) have done now. Not entirely opposed to lynching her (might be very informative) but I cannot honestly say I think she's our best bet of lynching a wolf toDay, therefore we should resist the temptation.

Eönwë - basically everything he says makes me go "yeah" or "fair enough", which is of very limited value in the long run. Need a better read on him.

Sally - as I've said before, her yesterDay's vote says nothing. I'd like to hear more about who she suspects and who she trusts before judging her.

Shasta - somehow submarining despite throwing around quite bold statements. No particular reasons to trust or distrust him so far.


RED

Lottie - got a funny vibe already yesterDay, ignored it because she seemed better for a while, and now she's again looking at things from a very wolfy pov (especially if Brinn is innocent).

Mac - his thought processes seem very paranoid and wolfy, and I do not understand how he's so convinced the wolves thought it looked like seer!Rikae dreamed of him and decided to frame him. If I had to vote now, I'd vote for him - and to be honest I'm kinda tempted to vote him soonish anyway to get things rolling because I suspect him far more than anyone else and I'd like to see him a sa lynch candidate. (Besides, I think we should start voting a bit earlier than during the last hour anyway because then the sheer amount of posts makes the thread dangerously difficult to keep track of...)


So, even if I was miraculously right about both the "red" and "green" groups, that would mean there are three wolves hiding among the ten people I labelled "yellow". Certainly food for thought... That being said, I would prefer to lynch Mac toDay, or if not, then Lottie.


edit: xed with Hui and Brinn

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by Huinesoron

Looking at the crossposts: do we really want to be pressing Kitanna for more information? Fine if she's a wolf, but otherwise isn't it better to keep the wolves guessing?

I brought it up because I wanted to know why she would say that, and I thought it impossible the Wolves had not already been well aware of it.

x/d with Lhuna, Pitch, and Sally