Tol-in-Gaurhoth CXIV – The Evil Breath of Morgoth in Dor-lómin, game thread

[THE Ka]

(Apologise in advance for the long post, have been trying to catch up since 7:30 my time)

Originally Posted by Pitch in reply Post #1093:

because frankly, how am I even supposed to argue with that? Of course it sounds agreeable the way you put it, but I don't feel it's a fair representation of my post. I didn't vote the Hunter, but I didn't act in time to save her either, and if you think admitting a mistake and feeling bad about it is creepy I can't help you.

This whole exchange has me curious now, including in mind Shasta’s post #1040 about ‘holding votes is pivotal’. At the end of the exchange, Pitch’s reply sounds genuine, because it is:

Originally Posted by Pitch, in reply to Kath’s question on his vote, post #889

sally - it really felt like a rehashed plot from the Day before, with some of the same arguments that had been used against Mac being used against sally, and since I was feeling miuch better about Mac by then, I was wary of the same happening to sally. Plus, as I said yesterDay, the sallywagon was being pushed (and pushed very hard) by a mixture of people I didn't and don't particularly trust. I had noticed sally hint at her role earlier, so when she revealed I was willing to give her the benefit of doubt.

Eönwë - I've been suspecting him since D1, based on a mix of mostly very uncontroversial posting, throwaway vote for Urwen, IMO possibly wolf-on-wolf vote for Hui and eagerness to jump on the sallywagon. I regret not doing this earlier when it could have mattered.

So, my curiosity is, why does Shasta still have misgivings about this and is asking the same question again about the timing of his vote?

Either an attempt to try and see if Pitch will give a different answer and thus, more evidence why, or to try and bring it back into the spot light to push?
If it’s a build suspicion attempt, we’ve seen several over the last few Days and players are wary of them, so this could be concluded as a risky move. Otherwise, they either didn’t spot where Pitch had replied to this same question or had forgotten. Suspicious still, but that could just as much be a villager’s mistake by oversight.


As for the ‘when to vote’ concern comparatively Pitch in #933 agrees with Lommy over Zil on voting earlier to help the QT (which was innocent majority at that point) and help GT innocents:

Originally Posted by Lommy

I'm getting more and more convinced it is not in the innocents' interests for everyone to leave their votes to the last minute. (Why do you think I've voted earlier than I had to 2 days in a row?) Dudes, let's learn from our mistakes and spread out the votes a little toDay, so we have time to discuss and react to each other's votes. Please.

Originally Posted by Zil

Or, so you and your mates have a little breathing room?

Later, we have Shasta commenting about their near DL voting and its merits along with some defense in post #1040:

Originally Posted by Shasta

Although I've said it once and I'll say it again - by holding my vote the day Huin was QTed, I very nearly made the most pivotal vote of the day. So if you think I'm doing it to avoid responsibility... you should rethink.

Pitch, as they’ve admitted before, regret not voting earlier with the Eonwe vote and later in post #933 agrees with not leaving the votes last minute to help GT analysis. This follows consistent and in post #971, gives an early vote as others had discussed to help out of +-Eonwe. Later in #1030, Pitch votes Eonwe (making a second vote to Eonwe at that point), noting that he had some hesitation given Lhuna’s earlier vote for them as well, but does so consistent to what he had said earlier over others agreeing to spread the votes and not wait for right before DL.

Regardless of vote and how the QT vote went, out of the Eonwe voters this paints Pitch in a much more genuine and consistent light. There is little to no flip flopping near the middle or end of a bandwagon that might be considered suspicious of wolf trying to appear invested and hide at the same time, nor is there a habit of throwing a bunch of suspicion posts out at players and seeing what sticks and going for it. All in all between the two, this speaks more to Pitch’s innocence.

As for Shasta, it’s interesting to watch their pattern before voting when it comes to reactions to both Eonwe’s lists and then later, Rune’s suspicion of Eonwe.

In post #1005, Shasta quotes Eonwe’s list, but gives a non-commited judgement saying there are parts they agree with in the ranking and others they’re confused about:

I'm so confused about how I feel about this list. Parts of it I love (Boro, Lommy, Greenie, Kath, Lottie to a lesser extent) and parts of it I hate (Pitch, Rune, Ka and Lalaith to a lesser extent.)
What does it all mean?!

The last bit is curious. Is it a subtle signal to Eonwe or just open ended wondering?

Later on in post #1008, Rune replies to Shasta’s suspicions about his previous post, which he was called-out for an ‘odd turnaround’:

What is?
The Lommy comments?
Can't I find behaviour unhelpful and even suspicious without it automatically qualifying a person for being a quarantine candidate?
Or were you referring to something else?

Shasta replies in #1012:

It sounds, to me, like in the first post you're suspicious of her, then in the second, you absolutely don't want to vote her (which translates into not being suspicious of her, to me.) People change their minds, of course, but that seemed to take place in a very short timespan. It drew my eye because I suspect Lommy, so it was like, "Yeah, I agree with this - wait, what?"

This is the second player besides Pitch that Shasta directly starts questioning after they’ve either voiced a suspicion to or have voted for Eonwe. Arguably in the context, this is one of the more consistent elements Shasta has.

Rune later in post #1028 votes Eonwe, stating that they will not have time to return before DL. This at least, still appears to be meeting the earlier sentiment of others on avoiding last minute votes before DL and spreading for analysis. A vote for Eonwe is also consistent to Rune’s suspicions on them in previous game Days.

Shasta then in post #1031 notes that Lhuna, Pitch, and Rune have made a ‘counter wagon’ to the Lhuna one and voices mistrust. Shasta later goes on to vote Lhuna, making it the 6th vote for them and stating that another wagon they prefer is likely not going to come along.

This is fairly consistent of Shasta voting later on but runs counter to other players that Day wanting to aim for more beneficial earlier votes in order to spread them and avoid hiding places for wolves.

Looking back at these exchanges, I can’t for these arguments find Rune or Pitch that suspicious for their votes. Yes, they didn’t choose Lhuna, but then again, in context of their previous suspicions, Lhuna was not either high up on their list of candidates or there. Honestly it appears they were trying to remain consistent with what evidence they had and trusted and go with that, than trying to throw suspicion around and see what stuck to make something to stand on for their arguments.
I really don’t see wolves being this dedicated to sticking to an argument when there are other ones that are much more convenient to hide in or push. Out of the three, I’m growing more and more suspicious of Shasta and how their interest will defensively spike around others looking at Eonwe.

x'ed with Rune, Zil, Pitch, Kath, Lommy, etc...