Tol-in-Gaurhoth CXIV – The Evil Breath of Morgoth in Dor-lómin, discussion thread

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by Boromir88

Now I have the QT to read and keep me entertained for days as I try to figure out how the heck was I considered/thought to be the seer.

I have more or less read it - and the Game Thread too - and it is still a mystery to me, where did that idea come from?

I mean at one time there was nothing of the sort and when I checked in the next time it was already "yesterday's news" in both threads.

[Pitchwife]

Originally Posted by Nogrod

I have more or less read it - and the Game Thread too - and it is still a mystery to me, where did that idea come from?

I mean at one time there was nothing of the sort and when I checked in the next time it was already "yesterday's news" in both threads.

As far as I know it was Mac who came up with it, you'll have to ask him. I didn't get it either.


FWIW I called Borowolf and Ordo Son of Bjarne yesterDay on nothing but gut feeling, so this is quite satisfying.


And Eönwë: Sorry!

[Rune Son of Bjarne]

Originally Posted by Pitchwife

FWIW I called Borowolf and Ordo Son of Bjarne yesterDay on nothing but gut feeling, so this is quite satisfying.

I am not sure I care for this new nickname.

I wasn't ordinary, I was outright abysmal.

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by Rune Son of Bjarne

I wasn't ordinary, I was outright abysmal.

Well, I can certainly say that for myself!

I tell myself, though, that at least I might offer a bit of entertainment value, for both sides.

[Boromir88]

Probably my favorite message in Night 2's planning. I was so paranoid of Rikae that I thought they were obviously contradicting everything I posted, but weren't trying to point suspicion towards me. To stay 'hidden' as a seer and get more dreams in:

Could be paranoia. If our [Rikae] roles were reversed I wouldn’t openly give clues that I dreamed of a wolf night 1, especially a wolf who likes to chatter a lot. Their first post, makes mention that they like lists (opposite from my previous response to G55 rambling that I hate lists). First suspect list doesn’t have a wolf in it, but they later mentions that it was a designed trap for wolves. Which they make mention that Brinn and Kath look “opportunistic” by jumping on G55. Then later claims that Brinn fell for the trap by repeating G55/Pitch were suspicious (2 of the names on Rikae’s first list) In posts where xe’s contemplating votes xe’s “torn” by G55’s behavior. Maybe doubtful to G55’s guilt because xe was one of the few people I was interacting with in the early start. It would be really bold strategy for 2 mates to associate themselves too closely (I usually only do it if I’m in a pack with like Phantom or Nog). I’m just reading xer interactions towards me all day were extremely minimal, but xe made it a point to subtlety contradict me on lists and a comment that I looked to be “buttering Mac up.” (that was pretty amusing)

cobb55 might work in our favor to Rikae-seer, in the fact that now xe might view my early interaction with G55 as reaching out to identify the cobbler. I skipped Rikae’s posts where xe was arguing with G55, because there’s nothing to get from the cobbler getting under Rikae’s skin. But their final post #245 interesting. Xe makes mention of the “anti-Brinn” vote wagon that was starting (Pointing towards Huey, Lottie, and Inzil). I read their final post and I’m seeing xe’s putting it out to the village that it looks like there’s a wolf effort to “save” Brinn. If correct, xe will dream Brinn tonight. Finding her innocent might alleviate Rikae’s final comment about Huey’s “boldness” to save Brinn.

I know it’s scanty and I could be paranoid. But I would bet xe’s Seer, their first post was designed as a trap and xe believed Brinn stepped in it. Regardless of that, to kill Rikae tonight is still a big risk, because even if I didn’t believe Rikae was the seer, absent of any other people that looked the part, I would protect Rikae tonight.

Despite your one day, played brilliantly Rikae and you helped more than you knew at the time.

And sort of my "Night 1 strategizing"...which happened to be quite different from what I was hoping to achieve in this game. I was planning on being the 1st wolf to go down. Alas, again the dead threads allude me:

Trying to think as an ordo here, I would take it as Day 1 banter and nothing that would cause me to jump on as suspicious/reason to lynch. The risk is, whoever is the hunter, might pick up and think “well, hS, can’t be the hunter, so why?” and therefor decide to hunt you. You are right, that the hunter is a low priority gifted, who’s best benefit is when they die, they manage to take a wolf with them.

The seer can be catastrophic, not only their dreams. Even if the seer doesn’t dream of any of us, it gives them a baseline of who they can trust. If the seer dreams of another gifted, the Seer and Ranger/or Hunter, can start working in tandem with the seer’s dreams and ranger protecting the dreams (or the hunter hunting us). They’re never able to privately communicate with eachother, but that’s the worst case scenario, that the gifteds figured out who they are, and can coordinate their efforts of seer dreams/Ranger protecting their dreams and stopping our kills.

For the cobbler, it’s my absolute favorite role to be, I think there are many who find the role annoying, but I just find causing mischief fun. So, the cobbler counts as an innocent in the tally, but wants us to win. The downside is the cobbler doesn’t know any of us, so they can really muddle things up and go after/lynch us just like any other villager. Ideally, the cobbler is meant to die to help us win. Pretty much everyone already assumes I’m a nefarious schemer, even when I’m not trying to be! That’s my “baggage” and I doubt even if I haven’t played in a couple years, people are going to give up that baggage. Luckily, I delight in causing mischief. The benefit of being a wolf, but acting like you’re drawing all the suspicion that you’re the cobbler, is it makes the innocent less likely to vote for you. Since, lynching the cobbler counts as a loss on the innocent tally, people are far more inclined to ignore lynching the cobbler, if they feel they can get a wolf. So, since no matter what I say, I give off the vibes of being an evil schemer, my best survival tool is pretending to be so suspicious, I’m the cobbler. I plan to not attract so much attention early, because early days the village will be more inclined to want to lynch the cobbler. Later on, when the numbers say they desperately need to lynch a wolf, acting like the cobbler is great cover (in my experience).

I do hope that most people have forgotten about my desperate desire to be in the dead thread. In previous games with dead threads, I just found them so fascinating, but I’m cursed to never get to enjoy them for long. And being a wolf, I will aggressively and loudly fight for survival. I’ll see how things play out on Day 1, but expect me to start picking fights with 2 or 3 of the more active villagers and pretty much ignoring everyone else. That way there’s no trail of if I die “Boro didn’t say anything about The Ka, they must be in the same pack.” I want to be “Boro didn’t say anything about anyone and was just super focused on attacking Legate and Shasta.”

[Rune Son of Bjarne]

I have skimmed through a few pages of the quarantine thread, and so far this is my favourite quotation.

Originally Posted by Lalaith

OMG will Eonwe never die

I am not sure I dare read through the whole thing though.

[Lalaith]

Such fun! So well played everyone! Nogs, what a wonderful concept and such great write-ups. Big hearts all round....really loved this game.

At the beginning of this game I said I was good at spotting innocents and hopeless at spotting wolves. How true, sadly that turned out to be.
My sure-fire wolves were Legate, and then Eonwe. All wrong.
My sure-fire innocents were Greenie, Lottie, Kit, Rune, Pitch. All good.

So basically I wouldn't know a wolf if I fell over it and it bit me on the ankle.

[Loslote]

Aww, Boro, rude! Leave the poor innocent child alone!

Nog, this was such an incredible game! Everything from the actual gameplay to the narrations were phenomenal. And great job, everyone else, for making this such an exciting and gripping game to play! I'm looking forward to reading through the QT for a whole new perspective on what was going on.

[THE Ka]

Originally Posted by Loslote

Aww, Boro, rude! Leave the poor innocent child alone!

Since in-narration they're my daughter I feel as if I have to smooth this over, but eh I was already dead and like to think old Indor went out with a smirk.

Again, thank you Nog for hosting and narrating such an awesome game. I don't think I've ever played a game as enjoyably chaotic and welcoming at the same time.

[Loslote]

Also......there was *zero* wolf-on-wolf in the Huin bandwagon. That many innocents really did just decide out of nowhere to quarantine a wolf!

[Lalaith]

Originally Posted by Rune Son of Bjarne

I am not sure I care for this new nickname.

I wasn't ordinary, I was outright abysmal.

Hey, don't be like that, brother from another mother. (read the QT thread for explanation)
And congrats on the baby you have acquired since we last met!

[Loslote]

Also, I don't know where I got this, but I thought the Cuties knew who I was, and I was 100% expecting them to vote for me when G55 and Huin had majority, so that the wolves could Night kill me. I was so shocked when it was Brinn instead. Now that I've looked at the thread, I realize they didn't know, and I was worried about nothing the whole time.

[Galadriel55]

Ha! I knew it! I bloody knew it! Since Day 1! Though I was considering Hunter as a possible alternative for Boro, and was nearly convinced in favour of Hunter when Sally died. But the longer Boro remained alive, the more certain I became of his furriness. I kneeeewww iiiitttt!!!


Will catch up to the discussion a bit later from my computer. For now, thank you for at least taking the Child down and for a wonderful climax! And thank you Nog for an awesome game!

[Rikae]

Brinn and Boro, hats off to both of you for some very clever gameplay.

I must know:
Brinn, was your "bearing gifts" remark deliberate? Why did you choose your dreams? Deeetails!

Boro: so all that "in-character" "nightmares" " unconscious" talk & back and forth with G55 ... don't know if you've looked at the dead thread but I was dying to know if it was a hint, a bluff, a .double bluff, or pure nonsense!

There was a ridiculous amount of agonizing in the dead thread about how to protect Boro while not messing up his plan, and as it happened, trusting him to protect himself was the right move e for the wrong reasons. And G55 and I agreed to vote Brinn twice for opposite reasons. Heh. What an epic game!

Thank you so much Nog for a great setup and wonderful narrations!

[Macalaure]

Late to the party...

Apparently I'm a really good cobbler when I don't try to be. Some people always see all kinds of hints in random posts and I usually miss them. Now that I thought I actually did see some, I ran with it, never to return.

Sincerest apologies for trying to lynch the actual seer from beyond death.

Originally Posted by Pitchwife

As far as I know it was Mac who came up with it, you'll have to ask him. I didn't get it either.

Originally Posted by Legate

At least on the Cuties thread, I blame Mac.

Who's the fool? The fool, or the fool who follows the fool?

Originally Posted by Brinn

How's that mousepad tasting?

Delicious, but it could've used more butter.

[Lhunardawen]

Originally Posted by Macalaure

Delicious, but it could've used more butter.

Maybe Boro still has some left over.

[Brinniel]

Originally Posted by Kath on Night 2

Upon finding out G55 is the Ranger, Brinn merely says ‘sorry to hear that’ not ‘oh I’ll sacrifice myself to save you’ – does this suggest Brinn is a Gifted who needs to stay alive?

You figured it out and didn't even realize it! The funny thing is I came close to slipping at this point and was tempted to post "Better you than me." So glad I didn't!

Originally Posted by Lhuna in the wolf chat

Boro, I remembered that article you shared with me about why people have more vivid dreams during this quarantine! And speaking of dreams, I’ll have to turn in now. I’ve been too sleep-deprived for the past couple of few days.

These Covid dreams are for real! I've been having a lot of vivid dreams lately, and of course once the WW game started I started dreaming about the game too. Which is honestly a bit confusing when you are the seer and start having actual dreams about players that aren't even accurate! I think my most recent WW dream was a day or two ago when I dreamed that for some reason Nogs decided to keep the game going even after the final narration and I needed to post in the QT.

Originally Posted by Greenie

Wholeheartedly seconded. It's been such a treat being back here with all of you, thanks everyone (and of course Nog!) for making it into such a crazy, epic comeback game

I agree with this as well, it is nice to be back. You know, it's been over 13 years since my first WW game, 3 years since I last played (Dueling Wizards), with a 5 year gap before that. Over those many years, our lives have changed significantly for most of us (pandemic aside), yet whenever I come back here, it feels like no time has changed at all.

[Rune Son of Bjarne]

Originally Posted by Lalaith

Hey, don't be like that, brother from another mother. (read the QT thread for explanation)
And congrats on the baby you have acquired since we last met!

Thank you. It was something I picked up a little more than a year ago, and while it is a source of much joy, it is not the best supplement to a game of werewolf.

I can see you are forcing my hand. I will have to have a proper look at the QT thread.

Originally Posted by Boromir88

We caught Rune's "Telemus" clues, but found it hard to believe if he was the seer he surely would have dreamed of Eonwe by now.

Of course you did, and of course you didn't believe it.

I was increasingly desperate at this point. I viewed myself as holding the village back, I had trouble finding more than the hours around deadline for participation, so I decided on throwing the most overt seer hints I could. I knew it was unlikely to work so well as to make me a wolf pick, but I hoped, and reasoned that if nothing else perhaps I could divert some attention. The weird thing is, that after I gave up on having ambitions for my contribution, I started having much more fun with the game. I imagine it mirrors the fun of being a cobbler, I guess you could say that I was fey.

I am not trying to constantly slate myself, and I am not looking for pity. However...
It has occurred to me that my game hasn't developed much since I played WWJ II. And the rest of you... I am just in awe of your scheming, theories, voting analysis etc. Amazing, just amazing.

I think that at sometime in the future I would like to mod that twitter inspired game, and just watch mayhem unfold.

[Galadriel55]

We at the QT got rather discpuraged by the Wall of Text posts on the GT rather fast, and wholeheartedly support your Twitter WW idea!

[Rune Son of Bjarne]

Originally Posted by Galadriel55

We at the QT got rather discpuraged by the Wall of Text posts on the GT rather fast, and wholeheartedly support your Twitter WW idea!

I am thankful for the support, less so for the "wall of text" memes in QT-thread that have made my eyes bleed.

[Lhunardawen]

Originally Posted by Rune Son of Bjarne

It has occurred to me that my game hasn't developed much since I played WWJ II. And the rest of you... I am just in awe of your scheming, theories, voting analysis etc. Amazing, just amazing.

I can totally relate. A lot of game development has happened in the games between now and since I last played, apparently. I've been rereading a few of the much, much older games and there was a really stark contrast in the depth of analysis that went on.

I think that at sometime in the future I would like to mod that twitter inspired game, and just watch mayhem unfold.

Please do, Rune. Please?


Late PS.

I guess you could say that I was fey.

I see what you did there.

[Pitchwife]

Originally Posted by Rune Son of Bjarne

Of course you did, and of course you didn't believe it.

I did! For a while at least, and whether you were the seer or not, I was pretty sure you were innocent, like Legate earlier; at the time of my death you were one of a handful of villagers I felt I could trust in a pinch (including Lommy, Lottie, Shasta when he went after THE Ka, possibly Greenie) - not trust to be right, but trust not to mislead me on purpose. Hence my reaction to the QT vote that Day, which the wolves took as Seerish. That's no small thing, trust between ordos; it can win games.

Originally Posted by Rune Son of Bjarne

The weird thing is, that after I gave up on having ambitions for my contribution, I started having much more fun with the game. I imagine it mirrors the fun of being a cobbler, I guess you could say that I was fey.

LOL! Seriously though, that's true of many things, that once you lower the bar of your expectations they're both more fun and you tend to do better. I feel I'm more or less in the same camp as you - some players' ability to post exhaustive analyses at runtime while also keeping up with what else is going on utterly amazes me (Greenie, I'm looking at you and your spreadsheets!). What people perceived as my 'tenseness' on D1 was really a mix of (1) being totally hyped about playing WW again and (2) being totally overwhelmed by the size of this village and the amount of stuff everybody was posting. I try to do analyses during Nighttime, but I rarely bother to post them because by the time I log in next Day too much other stuff has happened (which may be why people get the impression I'm holding back my thoughts, like Boro said D1?). During the Day I've found I operate best in a thrust-parry-riposte mode, engaging with whatever comes up. [/self-conscious rant]

Originally Posted by Rune Son of Bjarne

I think that at sometime in the future I would like to mod that twitter inspired game, and just watch mayhem unfold.

I'd really like to either play or co-mod that (and believe me, if I knew how to enforce a character limit to BD posts I'd already have started it)!

Originally Posted by Brinniel

I agree with this as well, it is nice to be back. You know, it's been over 13 years since my first WW game, 3 years since I last played (Dueling Wizards), with a 5 year gap before that. Over those many years, our lives have changed significantly for most of us (pandemic aside), yet whenever I come back here, it feels like no time has changed at all.

Or to quote Bowie, Nothing has changed / everything has changed, but coming back here still feels like coming home. So thanks to Nogrod for modding this game which has drawn us all back together again, but also thanks to The Barrow Wight Himself for making this space for us in the first place and maintaining it all those years so we have someplace to come back to in a time like this!

[Galadriel55]

Originally Posted by Pitchwife

I'd really like to either play or co-mod that (and believe me, if I knew how to enforce a character limit to BD posts I'd already have started it)!

An idea:

I believe the Downs' post-box (where you type the post text) remains the same size text-wise regardless of device (it seems the same on my phone and computer, and it doesn't change when I play around with window size). You may type only the text that fits into this space, quotes included. You may not exceed the limit (ie when the scroll bar appears).

Also... can I play/co-mod that too? I swear I cannot stand another Wall of Text.

[Huinesoron]

Nog, the narrations have been spectacular throughout, and this was a perfect endnote.

Brinn - you were incredible! I know I remember a few QT-wolf 'haha what if Brinn is the Seer' moments, but I don't think I ever seriously suspected you. That was a virtuoso performance. (But - arrrgh! If I'd only voted the other way on Day 1, this would have been a totally different game!)

Team Infector - sorry for dying on you so soon! It made for a much less stressful game for me, chilling with the Cobbler I. The QT-bar, but I would probably have been more help among the living.

The best part of the game, at least from my side, was the day or two when the QT was emphatically convinced BoroWolf was the Seer...

I know Team Wolf have planned all along to release our night-chats; Boro, as Last Wolf Standing are you okay with your chat being published? I should be able to get stable versions of both up pretty quickly.

Great game, everyone! Even if I spent half of it with the Cutiennocents studiously ignoring me.

hS

[Nogrod]

I have posted an epilogue to the Game Thread where you can find out the destinies of all those who were infected by Morgoth's spell or the disease they infected - aka. were moved into the QT.

It is all a result of an elaborate system I deviced and used some dice to play out. A nice little "after-game" for me. It turned out quite easy to write out, so the results seem to make sense.

Well, had the results been different it would have been relatively easy to tell them some other way to make sense.


So it wasn't that disasterous in the end, from the POV of the History of Middle-Earth, even if it at times looked like it.