Tol-in-Gaurhoth CXV: On the Borders of Mirkwood - Game Thread

[Pitchwife]

Information is not knowledge
Knowledge is not wisdom
Wisdom is not truth
Truth is not beauty
Beauty is not love
Love is not music
Music is the best!


You should all have listened to Shasta.

[satansaloser2005]

Yes, Mac, let us break out the blood goblets and the knives meant for the most tender meat. We are, after all, classy motherwolfers.

[Pitchwife]

I, for one, prefer to use my fangs & claws like a proper Nightmare Wolf.

[satansaloser2005]

Originally Posted by Pitchwife

I, for one, prefer to use my fangs & claws like a proper Nightmare Wolf.

And rightly so, my terrifying brother. Embrace your primal instincts. You deserve it!

[Macalaure]

Originally Posted by Pitchwife

You should all have listened to Shasta.

Or Brinn, for that matter. Her boss lady analyses yesterDay were pretty spot on.

[Pitchwife]

Let me guess, Lommy, are you the Ranger?

[satansaloser2005]

Originally Posted by Pitchwife

Let me guess, Lommy, are you the Ranger?

Yes please, tell us who you are, ranger. Speaking for myself, I have no idea who you might be....

[Thinlómien]

Originally Posted by Pitchwife

Let me guess, Lommy, are you the Ranger?

HOW

WOULD

YOU

KNOW

THAT

I was consoling myself with at least the thought that you guys must have had no idea because I looked like the dumbest ordo to ever ordo, or possibly the cobbler.

But yes I am. Don't ask who I protected last Night because it doesn't make me look any smarter

[satansaloser2005]

Originally Posted by Thinlómien

I was consoling myself with at least the thought that you guys must have had no idea because I looked like the dumbest ordo to ever ordo, or possibly the cobbler.

But yes I am. Don't ask who I protected last Night because it doesn't make me look any smarter

Oooo, was it meeeeeeeeeeeee?

[Huinesoron]

Edit: For posterity, the Dead Thread

Hello, Living. Well done, Wolves and Cobbler! You deserve the win.

For the past... several Days, we Dead have been insisting the Living are all terrible, but this result proves one thing:

The Dead are terrible too!

We'd pretty much unanimously agreed on a Legate-Mac-Lommy-Kath pack, so this has been a really surprising Morning. (We did spot Rikae yesterday though!)

Wolves, I have to know: did you find the post where Greenie listed all of her dreams on Day 3?

hS

[Pitchwife]

Originally Posted by Thinlómien

HOW

WOULD

YOU

KNOW

THAT

Your response to my post about Rikae drawing the Ranger protection from Greenie. Nothing you couldn't have said as an ordo, but I got a feeling you might have a special investment in the matter.

[Macalaure]

*goes to check dead thread*

*expects a lot of dents in the walls from all the heads banged against them*

[Thinlómien]

Originally Posted by Pitchwife

Your response to my post about Rikae drawing the Ranger protection from Greenie. Nothing you couldn't have said as an ordo, but I got a feeling you might have a special investment in the matter.

I was wondering if I should comment on that at all but I couldn't quite restrain myself, because it made me belatedly suspect Mac (hellooooo why didn't I stick to that) and I wanted to point that out.

Mac, was that post of yours on Day2 where you made a list and similarly worded your innocent feelings of me and Rikae a deliberate protection lure?

I'm sad to say it worked.

But hey, if it hadn't, my other protection option for N4 was Sally for "possibly seerishly defending Nogrod" To clarify, I didn't think Sally was the seer, but I thought the wolves might think she was.

[Thinlómien]

Originally Posted by Legate

As some consolation to the innocents that Wolves can be also oblivious however: the first moment I literally started seriously considering Lommy might be the Ranger was about thirty-five minutes ago when she entered the room with a grin on her face that she clearly could not suppress. That was also the first failure at our home in keeping poker faces, as far as I am aware.

*shrug shrug*

I had an adrenaline hype tbh. And it didn't help that our lovely Mod God sent me a link to The Final Countdown on youtube and I was listening to it on repeat.

[Boromir88]

A brief secretarial post...

Gifted:

Seer Greenie
N1- Shasta
N2- Nilp
N3- Rikae
N4- Legate

*Kudos to Huey in the dead thread for figuring out these exact and precise dreams. Then subsequently the head bashing that after her death the focus was on complicated messages to the Dead players and not actually reading Greenie's posts.

I will point out that Brinn and Rikae went through Greenie's posts and I think were the closest to figuring out her dreams. And the "dead communication" plots were mostly being stirred by a wolfy-Mac

Ranger Lommy
N2- Brinn
N3- Mac
N4- Nilp
N5- Pitch

You didn't protect all wolves! Even though I think you protected them more during the day this time than guarding them at night. Ah well, many of the dead will be eating a bit of humility too.

Beast Hunter Nilp
N2- Brinn
N3- Himself
N4- Greenie

I'm very glad that this role's gift played out. Especially seeing that Nilp had fun with it too made it more enjoyable.

It's the game I think I will dub Nilp was soooo close, but yet not quite.

Night 2 he sent the PM wondering if he booby traps Brinn's house or Lottie's. He settled on Brinn unfortunately. And that could have changed things pretty quickly. Because at that time Pitch was the the NW and was the chosen sacrifice if they were caught in the trap.

But when it became evident that Legate would go down sooner or later (I think after Nog's lynch) they switched to sacrifice him. Which was a well timed move, since Greenie dreamed of him only that same night.

Then he had a bold plot to openly accuse Mac of being a werewolf and tried to bait the wolves to come after him that night. (I'd be interested to hear from the pack what they thought about Nilp that day he voted for Mac). Only the wolves did not take the bait, which convinced him that Mac was innocent and well...the rest is history.

I think Nilp lacks mine and Lommy's resilience (to help Rikae in their point system )

[Galadriel55]

Congratulations, baddies! That was a very close game. It was fun to watch both threads from the side without being personally involved. For the record, I was cheering for whichever side was losing at any given time. ^.^

With pride, I can claim I suspected sally from Day 2, when she started to participate actively. However, I was completely lost about all the gifteds, and even at the very end when it should have been nearly process of elimination I thought the Ranger was Kath.

The game was epic and intense. I am glad I wasn't playing but got to watch. It's a shame the NW didn't get to use his role though. That was an interesting role twist that was debated a lot before the game but never played out. Overall though great game Boro! Turns out gifteds and wolves do occasionally die in your games - but it's still gonna be a votes race!

[Pitchwife]

Honour where honour is due: Rikae, that was awesome! We only began to suspect it was you last Night (actually Mac did), but I should probably have guessed because I'm pretty sure you'd have destroyed me if you'd been innocent.


Kudos to our Sestra Wolfcake, Sally, who actually suggested to kill Greenie when we did. That was a stroke of genius! Her being the seer came as a joyous surprise, to me at least.


Mac, you said last game you were always nervous as a wolf, but you looked totally cool to me most of the Daytime. Admirable!


Legate, good choice to take my place as BH trap bait when you did. It hurt to lose you, but you've been avenged!



Also kudos to Brinn: you had us all scared with your analyses, they were so close to truth!


Nog and Formy: I'm so sorry for the frustration you went through in this game, but what's a bloodthirsty night-beast supposed to do?

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by Boro

Then subsequently the head bashing that after her death the focus was on complicated messages to the Dead players and not actually reading Greenie's posts.

This was actually one of the things that made us dead just go nuts in there! At least the innocents should understand that those systems don't work and can't work, and are only a waste of time. The villagers could use that time to do something actually important - like this time trying to understand what the Seer had left them.

Why doesn't it work? There's always going to be several version of the lists and the wolves will use the one that benefits them and only chaos ensues - and even if there is just one, you can't be sure whether the dead accepted to use it or not. And thirdly: the dead don't like to pushed around by the living, especially if they think they see things better than the living (whether it is true they do, is another matter then). Fex. we were never going to use any of your lists - and I remember the same feeling from a few other Dead Threads back in time.



But yes, that vote-splitting really crowned this wolf-victory. It was beautiful indeed.

[Thinlómien]

No, it was not you Sally. It was Pitch.

See, based on rereading yesterDay, I was conviced the wolves are Mac, Kath and Brinn, and Rikae is the cobbler.

That made Sally and Pitch the remaining ordos to me.

I wanted to protect Nilp of course, but I couldn't (which you correctly calculated ), but I hoped there was still a chance that the wolves wouldn't dare to attack Nilp in case I had actualy gambled before.

So I was like "who else is a likely wolf kill?" "Obviously Sally who so innocently joined the anti-Mac wagon since Mac must be a wolf after all."

(Side note: I SAID THE ANTI-MAC WAGON LOOKED FISHY AF AND FULL OF FURRIES AND IT WAS!!!!! somehow we still messed up. amazing.)

So I went "but the wolves must agree that Sally looks very innocent, so they would expect me to protect Sally if I can't protect Nilp. So if they want to play it über safe, they'll have to gun for someone else".

So then I thought Pitch would be the perfect candidate for the wolf kill. He was laying low the whole game, ergo could look like a gifted. For not jumping on the Shasta wagon, he was unlikely to look like a cobbler to the wolves. He was obviously innocent. And best of all, he had talked about the wolves possibly trying to mislead the ranger and the bh, which is a point the ranger would have thought about! (Side note spoiler alert: she didn't.)

So I managed to convince myself Pitch was a likely wolf plan C kill choice that they might be desperate enough to go for if they didn't go for Nilp because they really really really needed to kill an innocent.

...oops.

But hey, I couldn't have really prevented the kill anyhow since I had just protected Nilp, who had very clearly said he would be unprotected (which turned out not to be a bluff), and I had no way of knowing the wolves would prefer to gun for the seer instead of him. (To be fair, would I have had a little less busy RL day that Night, I might have still protected someone else, but I didn't have any feasible alternative for Nilp. Also if the wolves had killed Nilp under my nose I would have kicked myself real hard.)

[Boromir88]

Well after some thought and discussion. Game has concluded.

Wolves Victory. Congrats Legate, Macalaure, sally, and Pitch (the Nightmare wolf) for a wonderfully played game.

Cobbler victory! Absolutely brilliant Rikae!

This post will serve as a place holder for the final narration!

Dead folks, come on over and join the discussion!

We'll keep the Game discussion happening here, but I'm all good for calling it.

[Brinniel]

Originally Posted by Lommy

Brinn and Kath. Why did we not make Sally the other lynch option yesterDay. WE ALL SUSPECTED HER GOD

Well, that was on you. I did vote her. And yes, I should've voted Mac, but you two were the ones that joined that ridiculous Shasta bandwagon. He was our only practically known innocent!

And really guys, you didn't want to make this more fun and bus one of your own? You still probably would've won anyway..

[satansaloser2005]

Originally Posted by Brinniel

And really guys, you didn't want to make this more fun and bus one of your own? You still probably would've won anyway..

Hey, we sure tried....

[Brinniel]

I'm putting an end to this misery and Nilping myself! Yesterday gave me anxiety and a headache that lasted through the night.

AND WHY CAN'T I EVER BE IN THE DEAD THREAD?! IT LOOKS SO MUCH MORE FUN!

++Brinn

[A Little Green]

Originally Posted by Form

He's not kidding--once you read the Dead Thread, you will see we were pretty much completely taken in. I daresay our extra vote would have staved things off (NILLLLLLLLLLP!), but not changed the end result.

To be fair, after all of our complaints about the living being terrible, I think we kind of deserved to be wrong about everyone except Mac. (At least we got him right. I think the yelling in the Dead Thread reached impressive new heights when he voted for Shasta after saying that he was a possible Seer-dreamed innocent, and nobody batted an eye )

Originally Posted by Huin

Wolves, I have to know: did you find the post where Greenie listed all of her dreams on Day 3?

See, this is the thing. I discovered that from a dead Seer's perspective the Dead Thread is actually a horrible idea! All the relevant information was in that D3 list post, but all you guys did was try to figure out increasingly complicated methods of communicating with the Dead Thread I mean, I got to the Dead Thread and they'd already figured out all the dreams so I was sure the living would, too (For the record: N1 Shasta, N2 Nilp, N3 Rikae, N4 Legate.)

[A Little Green]

That said - seriously well done, wolves! With a combination of exceptionally clueless ordos and Gifteds (admittedly both Nilp and I pegged Legate on the same Night, but as our only wolf catch it's kind of sad), and an exceptionally brilliant wolf pack, you really did deserve it this time. That was a fantastic performance, you guys.

Also special shout out to Shasta, who I dreamed on N1 because I figured if I know I can trust him he'll make a terrific ally (and might even point me to actual wolves with those famous psychic powers of his). Turns out I was right, but his Cassandra complex on the last Day was tragic to watch.

Finally, unrelated sidenote - I'm almost disappointed we didn't get a chance to see the Nightmare Pitch in action. (Though God knows us Gifteds were in enough trouble as it was ) So maybe that's a role we can have again in a later game?

[A Little Green]

Originally Posted by Pitch

Honour where honour is due: Rikae, that was awesome! We only began to suspect it was you last Night (actually Mac did), but I should probably have guessed because I'm pretty sure you'd have destroyed me if you'd been innocent.

They were brilliant. I dreamed them on N3 because I had a bad feeling (it didn't sound like innocent Rikae to be so wrong about their suspects) but I now can't figure out why I didn't join the dots and think Cobbler until yesterDay.

Originally Posted by Pitchwife

Kudos to our Sestra Wolfcake, Sally, who actually suggested to kill Greenie when we did. That was a stroke of genius! Her being the seer came as a joyous surprise, to me at least.

Hang on - so you didn't actually know I was the Seer? I can't decide if this makes me feel better or worse. (Reminds me of my first ever game as a Seer where I was picked as a no-trace kill on Night 2. At least I survived a bit longer this time. )

[Brinniel]

Originally Posted by G55

That was a very close game.

Haha, I think you are being too kind. More like an brilliant game from the baddies and an epic failure from us confused villagers!

Congrats are in order indeed to the other side! Even if we had lynched Mac yesterDay, I think you would've still won because I for one did not think Sally and Mac were on the same team.

Originally Posted by Lommy

Personally I think I'm very resilient (I almost always make it to the endgame, or at least Night/Day 4-5ish, regardless of whether I'm ordo, wolf or gifted).

As I recall, that seems to happen to me too. After last game, I was convinced I'd get Night killed earlier on.

Originally Posted by Lommy

And I quite liked the rules, even though I must say I prefer the other version of the dead thread ie where they get a vote instead of empowering a villager. It's less... chaotic, and it saves everyone the kind of headache we all had yesterDay about the stupid communication scheme.

Agreed in that the part I liked about it more was that we heard from the Dead/Quarantine Thread two hours before deadline, so that the village had the chance to react to it rather than wait until the next Day. I wonder what it would be like if the Dead had to vote to empower someone before most players had voted.

[Pitchwife]

Originally Posted by A Little Green

Finally, unrelated sidenote - I'm almost disappointed we didn't get a chance to see the Nightmare Pitch in action. (Though God knows us Gifteds were in enough trouble as it was ) So maybe that's a role we can have again in a later game?

Seconded! It was ironic that I, as the most expendable member of the pack, ended up in a rather safe spot, suspected here and there but never seriously and mostly written off as the cobbler. But what the knowledge of my secret superpower did for me was keep me from worrying about survival, which in turn may have reinforced the cobblerish impression (what Lommy correctly called my detachment from the game). I was ready to be lynched any old Day if need be, it just never happened.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Originally Posted by Macalaure

Did any of you save our wolf pm's, btw?

Originally Posted by satansaloser2005

I have them on my laptop. If the village likes, I could share them later this weekend. 🙂

I also have those at least from the Nights when I was still alive. We can see whoever of us gets to them earlier and is able to post them in some coherent manner (might be a bit difficult on my part, I simply downloaded them from the 'Downs).

Originally Posted by Pitchwife

Seconded! It was ironic that I, as the most expendable member of the pack, ended up in a rather safe spot, suspected here and there but never seriously and mostly written off as the cobbler. But what the knowledge of my secret superpower did for me was keep me from worrying about survival, which in turn may have reinforced the cobblerish impression (what Lommy correctly called my detachment from the game). I was ready to be lynched any old Day if need be, it just never happened.

I don't know how much my behaviour objectively contributed to that, but even from my part I realised that somehow I had built my reasoning and suspicious into a way that made me "suspect" you the least of my packmates. I realised it was an undesireable situation, but did not have time to back away from it (then I died).