Father-names among the Noldor

[Galin]

Originally Posted by Huinesoron

( . . . ) Feanor - named all seven of his sons... Finwe. I don't think Tolkien explicitly stated that he added individual parts later, but he did say that Curufin has his dad's full name because he was Feanor's favourite, which seems hard to square with him getting it at birth.

It's also noted that Feanor begged Nerdanel that the Mother-names of his last two sons -- Ambarussa - should be different.

Another reason Curufin received the name Curufinwe is that he resembled his father very much in face. This is reflected in his Mother-name Atarinke "Little father -- referring to his physical likeness to Feanor, later found also to be seen in his mind."

The Note on Mother-names (The Shibboleth of Feanor) begins: "The Eldar in Valinor had as a rule . . ." and states that the Father-name was given at birth, usually "recalling" the father's name by resembling it in sense or form, or "sometimes" it was simply the Father's name, to which some distinguishing prefix in the case of a son might be added later.

So what about Feanor's sons? Another, earlier text about naming (Morgoth's Ring) begins: "This is the manner in which the naming of children was achieved among the Noldor" -- and without going into detail here about the earlier text possibly being superseded -- in my opinion it's also possible that this account is simply more detailed concerning Noldorin customs specifically, where (in any case) it's said . . .

Laws and Customs: "soon after birth the child was named. It was the right of the father to devise this first-name, and he it was that announced it to the child's kindred on both sides" [and in the early days of the Eldar]

"( . . . ) it was then still the custom for the father-name of a son to be a modification of the father's name (as Finwe/Curufinwe) or a patronymic (as Finwion "son of Finwe")."

JRRT, Morgoth's Ring

[note: in this text, version B, Finwe named Feanor Finwion, later modified to Curufinwe when his talent was revealed]

Here the Noldor have Father-names, Chosen-names -- meaning the right to name themselves at a given point --
and other names including Mother-names.

[Pitchwife]

We're talking about the work of John Ronald Reuel, son of Arthur Reuel, brother of Hilary Arthur Reuel, father of John Francis Reuel, Michael Hilary Reuel and Christopher John Reuel - and, for crying out loud, he even named his daughter Priscilla Mary Anne Reuel! (It carries on in subsequent generations.) What did you expect?

[Galin]

LOL!

Plus I think Tolkien was friends with Bjorn Eriksson, son of Erik Bjornsson

[Huinesoron]

Originally Posted by Galin

I assume you mean Finwe Arafinwe (aka Finrod) here.

My understanding is that the initial "Finwe" was added after the fact to emphasise his status as a High King (probably by his sons in Beleriand, as a counter to Fingolfin doing the same thing). Frankly we're lucky the others didn't do the same thing: "Finturgon! Your brother Finfingon has fallen, and you are now High King! After you will come Fingil-galad!" ^_~

Originally Posted by Galin

Well (not that you said otherwise) but going by Tolkien's latest know design, Artaher was moved down, so four in my opinion.

Yep, which actually makes more sense, since he's the one who doesn't quite fit the pattern. (Hilariously, it means Angrod half-named his son after his sister Artanis; weirdo.)

Originally Posted by Galin

Ingalaure rather (aka Inglor Felagund). Indis preferred the Telerin-in-form Mother-name Findaráto for Arafinwe, Findaráto Sindarized in Middle-earth as Finrod, even though he stayed in Aman.

-_-

Originally Posted by Galin

I think this story is outdated, though the names remain to protect the innocent

I think Tolkien threw up his hands in despair at these two, didn't he? But the idea that Maglor named them still stands, I think, which means "Hey look, elves!" is canon.

Originally Posted by Galin

It's also noted that Feanor begged Nerdanel that the Mother-names of his last two sons -- Ambarussa - should be different.

I can only imagine she reacted by just staring at him for over a minute, and then:

"Seriously???"

Originally Posted by Pitchwife

We're talking about the work of John Ronald Reuel, son of Arthur Reuel, brother of Hilary Arthur Reuel, father of John Francis Reuel, Michael Hilary Reuel and Christopher John Reuel - and, for crying out loud, he even named his daughter Priscilla Mary Anne Reuel! (It carries on in subsequent generations.) What did you expect?

In fairness, they really liked Mr Reuel. ^_^ But yes - the idea of inherited family names doesn't sound so strange from that perspective.

I guess we're lucky Elves didn't have a high childhood mortality rate, or else we'd doubtless have seen the other pre-modern practice of slapping the names of your dead kids onto the living ones. It makes family trees a lively affair, let me tell you.

hS

[Galin]

Originally Posted by Huinesoron

My understanding is that the initial "Finwe" was added after the fact to emphasise his status as a High King (probably by his sons in Beleriand, as a counter to Fingolfin doing the same thing).

I chose "Finwe Arafinwe (aka Finrod)" as the Sindarization doesn't match. It matches the Mother-name Findaráto. In other words, both these parts were tongue-in-cheek, using the Inglor Felagund scenario.


But my point with Feanor and Nerdanel was more serious. Deadly serious


And it's that if we use Of Naming among the Noldor from Laws and Customs (Morgoth's Ring), as I read it so far anyway, all of Feanor's sons can be distinguished early by their Father-names, and this could explain why he begged Nerdanel not to give his last two sons the same name . . .

. . . that is, Curufinwe did not name his sons Finwe soon after birth, but Nelyafinwe and so on, with Curufinwe (for Curufin) explained as above.

[William Cloud Hicklin]

Could be worse- could have named every damn one of them Ptolemy, and all the girls Cleopatra.

[Galin]

Originally Posted by Huinesoron

( . . . ) I think Tolkien threw up his hands in despair at these two, didn't he? But the idea that Maglor named them still stands, I think, which means "Hey look, elves!" is canon.

According to late texts though, the names Elros and Elrond were formed to recall the name of Elwing (Shibboleth)


Or (The Problem of Ros) Elwing named Elrond and Elros -- Elwing giving the former name to her son in memory of "the great Hall of the Throne of Elwe in the midst of his stronghold of Menegroth that was called the Menelrond . . . "


In the earlier tale (1958, letter 211) Elrond was related to a primitive Elvish word for "cavern", with Elrond being found "within the cave" . . . in other words, a new meaning appears with the new, later story -- noting letter 345, 1972: Elrond "The Vault of Stars"

To The Problem of Ros again: "Now Elrond was a word for the firmament, the starry dome as it appeared like a roof to Arda, and it was given by Elwing in memory of the great Hall of the Throne of Elwe . . .

[Morthoron]

Originally Posted by Pitchwife

We're talking about the work of John Ronald Reuel, son of Arthur Reuel, brother of Hilary Arthur Reuel, father of John Francis Reuel, Michael Hilary Reuel and Christopher John Reuel - and, for crying out loud, he even named his daughter Priscilla Mary Anne Reuel! (It carries on in subsequent generations.) What did you expect?

The Tolkiens Reuel!

[Pervinca Took]

Originally Posted by Morthoron

The Tolkiens Reuel!

And I think 'Anne' may have been a confirmation name.

[William Cloud Hicklin]

So was "John"