Father-names among the Noldor

[Galin]

Originally Posted by Huinesoron

( . . . ) I think Tolkien threw up his hands in despair at these two, didn't he? But the idea that Maglor named them still stands, I think, which means "Hey look, elves!" is canon.

According to late texts though, the names Elros and Elrond were formed to recall the name of Elwing (Shibboleth)


Or (The Problem of Ros) Elwing named Elrond and Elros -- Elwing giving the former name to her son in memory of "the great Hall of the Throne of Elwe in the midst of his stronghold of Menegroth that was called the Menelrond . . . "


In the earlier tale (1958, letter 211) Elrond was related to a primitive Elvish word for "cavern", with Elrond being found "within the cave" . . . in other words, a new meaning appears with the new, later story -- noting letter 345, 1972: Elrond "The Vault of Stars"

To The Problem of Ros again: "Now Elrond was a word for the firmament, the starry dome as it appeared like a roof to Arda, and it was given by Elwing in memory of the great Hall of the Throne of Elwe . . .

[William Cloud Hicklin]

Originally Posted by Galin

According to late texts though, the names Elros and Elrond were formed to recall the name of Elwing (Shibboleth)


Or (The Problem of Ros) Elwing named Elrond and Elros -- Elwing giving the former name to her son in memory of "the great Hall of the Throne of Elwe in the midst of his stronghold of Menegroth that was called the Menelrond . . . "


In the earlier tale (1958, letter 211) Elrond was related to a primitive Elvish word for "cavern", with Elrond being found "within the cave" . . . in other words, a new meaning appears with the new, later story -- noting letter 345, 1972: Elrond "The Vault of Stars"

To The Problem of Ros again: "Now Elrond was a word for the firmament, the starry dome as it appeared like a roof to Arda, and it was given by Elwing in memory of the great Hall of the Throne of Elwe . . .

-rond meant "vault, vaulted space, dome" or the like from very early. Whether Elrond referred to a vaulted vave or the vault of the firmament, the root remained the same. Cf. Hadhodrond, Nargothrond. Related is Nogrod.

[Galin]

Originally Posted by William Cloud Hicklin

-rond meant "vault, vaulted space, dome" or the like from very early. Whether Elrond referred to a vaulted vave or the vault of the firmament, the root remained the same. Cf. Hadhodrond, Nargothrond. Related is Nogrod.

Yes the letter I looked up reads:

Elrond Elros *rondo was a primitive Elvish word for cavern. Cf. Nargothrond (fortified cavern by the R. Narog) Aglarond, etc.

And Tolkien goes on to say here that Elrond was found in a cave, with Elros found dabbling in the water -- in a cave with a fall of water over the entrance -- with -ros meaning "dew, spray (of fall or fountain".

The explanation intended at this point in time appears to relate to a "simple" cave. In the Etymologies scenario, the root ROD- "cave" produced Quenya and Noldorin words that had to do with "cave" or "hollow, cavernous" -- but in Ilkorin, a word "rond = domed roof. hence Elrond "vault of heaven"


Despite that -rond is generally more versatile, I mean that the meaning -- or perhaps better, Tolkien's gloss of the name for this specific character, changed, to go along with Elwing's naming. Or let's say, his focus shifted: despite the semantic relationship that hails back to a root, a natural cave is different from the dome of the firmament.

The Elwing scenario actually does "double-duty" in a sense, since the vault of heaven was reproduced in a cave in Elwe's halls.

Anyway, main point: Elwing named them