4 Of the coming of the Elves - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Findegil · 10-09-2021, 11:03 AM

Aiwendil, what do you think about ArcusCalions question?

I have learned in some older cases that to hold any impulse for posting in this project back has always done more harm than good. But that is only my oppinion.

Respectfully
Findegil

Aiwendil · 10-09-2021, 04:30 PM

Yeah, I expect we're going to have some interesting discussions about a lot of the new material, and I don't see much point in holding those back. (As a matter of fact, reading and thinking about that book have already rather distracted me from the response I was working on here, for which I apologize!)

My personal opinion at this point is that the large corpus of new material from part I of that book is, in the end, not actually going to have a huge impact on the project, but naturally I expect rather a vigorous debate on that subject! At any rate, I do still intend to lay out my thoughts on the latest proposal here, but I don't see any reason that couldn't happen in parallel with the other discussion.

gondowe · 10-10-2021, 07:52 AM

Hi there. I would propose to try in another thread the making of a new Yenonotie with the additions of NoME if they can be taken into account. And then try to incorporate them into the text. In order to be as faithful as possible to the narrative sequence.

ArcusCalion · 10-11-2021, 06:13 AM

Gondowe, I actually have made a draft of a 'Yenonotie' style work combining several of the 'time' related texts from NoME and HoME. I can post that at some point, but it was not actually as difficult as might be thought once a thorough understanding of the texts, their history, and the applications to the legendarium are considered.

gondowe · 10-13-2021, 08:07 AM

Hi Arcus. I also started a Yenonotie but I see that adapting to the new situation is very difficult. Seeing that Aiwendil opened a new thread about this we talked there.

Elvellon · 08-19-2023, 09:40 AM

Probably a silly question, so please bear with me, because I feel like I'm missing a big piece of the puzzle here. I've been trying to sort it out.

Why in CE-EX-05.5 is the line removed about Oromë naming the Quendi Eldar? There is no explanation here that I can find, but I may have missed it. My working assumption is that a decision was made somewhere along the way, perhaps in another thread, to keep "Eldar" only for Elves of the Great Journey. If that's the reason, can someone point me to the place where this was decided? I'd be curious to read the arguments for and against.

The other reason I ask is because in CE-EX-25, the reference to Oromë naming the Eldar remains. Perhaps it was an issue of avoiding repetition?

I regret being such a late-comer to this project, so apologies for retreading ground that was settled long ago.

Edit: Nevermind. I think I answered my own question mere minutes after asking it.

Arvegil145 · 09-07-2023, 10:16 AM

I'm not quite sure that this line from the Annals of Aman should've been removed:

Quote:

The greatest of these was Menelmakar, the Swordsman of the Sky. This, it is said, was a sign of Túrin Turambar, who should come into the world, and a foreshowing of the Last Battle that shall be at the end of Days.

- Annals of Aman, entry 1000-1050, p. 71

After all, the texts in TNS are of Numenorean origin - and just because the Later Quenta omits the mention of Turin (even though it does mention the Last Battle briefly in reference to Menelmacar), it doesn't mean that it was rejected altogether.

10-10-2021, 07:52 AM	#3
gondowe Wight Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 248	Hi there. I would propose to try in another thread the making of a new Yenonotie with the additions of NoME if they can be taken into account. And then try to incorporate them into the text. In order to be as faithful as possible to the narrative sequence. Last edited by gondowe; 10-10-2021 at 07:57 AM.

08-19-2023, 09:40 AM	#6
Elvellon Animated Skeleton Join Date: Aug 2023 Location: New Jersey Posts: 47	Probably a silly question, so please bear with me, because I feel like I'm missing a big piece of the puzzle here. I've been trying to sort it out. Why in CE-EX-05.5 is the line removed about Oromë naming the Quendi Eldar? There is no explanation here that I can find, but I may have missed it. My working assumption is that a decision was made somewhere along the way, perhaps in another thread, to keep "Eldar" only for Elves of the Great Journey. If that's the reason, can someone point me to the place where this was decided? I'd be curious to read the arguments for and against. The other reason I ask is because in CE-EX-25, the reference to Oromë naming the Eldar remains. Perhaps it was an issue of avoiding repetition? I regret being such a late-comer to this project, so apologies for retreading ground that was settled long ago. Edit: Nevermind. I think I answered my own question mere minutes after asking it. Last edited by Elvellon; 08-19-2023 at 09:56 AM.

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10-09-2021, 11:03 AM	#1
Findegil King's Writer Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 1,721	Aiwendil, what do you think about ArcusCalions question? I have learned in some older cases that to hold any impulse for posting in this project back has always done more harm than good. But that is only my oppinion. Respectfully Findegil

10-09-2021, 04:30 PM	#2
Aiwendil Late Istar Join Date: Mar 2001 Posts: 2,224	Yeah, I expect we're going to have some interesting discussions about a lot of the new material, and I don't see much point in holding those back. (As a matter of fact, reading and thinking about that book have already rather distracted me from the response I was working on here, for which I apologize!) My personal opinion at this point is that the large corpus of new material from part I of that book is, in the end, not actually going to have a huge impact on the project, but naturally I expect rather a vigorous debate on that subject! At any rate, I do still intend to lay out my thoughts on the latest proposal here, but I don't see any reason that couldn't happen in parallel with the other discussion.

10-11-2021, 06:13 AM	#4
ArcusCalion Quentingolmo Join Date: Aug 2017 Posts: 525	Gondowe, I actually have made a draft of a 'Yenonotie' style work combining several of the 'time' related texts from NoME and HoME. I can post that at some point, but it was not actually as difficult as might be thought once a thorough understanding of the texts, their history, and the applications to the legendarium are considered.

10-13-2021, 08:07 AM	#5
gondowe Wight Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 248	Hi Arcus. I also started a Yenonotie but I see that adapting to the new situation is very difficult. Seeing that Aiwendil opened a new thread about this we talked there.