Tolkien's final First Age timeline

[Tar Elenion]

If you can, then many thanks,

[Huinesoron]

So I'm working on reconstructing this, and with Aiwendil's Sequence of Composition to hand it's almost trivially easy. If you've got a copy of NoME, you can replicate my work as follows:

• Based on XVIII, treat Elves as growing to maturity at a 3:1 rate. This agrees with the other late document, XIX (which says they grow "as swiftly as Men", but Tolkien often meant "in their own terms" rather than "in Sun-years").
• Directly copy the timeline in XIII.1. This is the final Timeline Tolkien wrote.
• Add details from XVII.3(7), the final generation scheme. The gap from conception to birth is wrong, but as general dates these generations work fine.
• Dip into XVII.3(1) to pull out the rest of Ingwe's family tree. Adjust his wife's birth-date to be 3 Growth-Years after his, instead of three sun-years.
• Look at XIII.3 and VI.B for Tolkien's latest thoughts on the war around Angband. It was invested (= besieged) while the Ambassadors were in Valinor, and defeated midway between their return and the start of the March.
• Go to VII for Tolkien's final full timeline of the March. The length matches the length given in XIII.3, so simply translate all the dates into the adjusted calendar from XIII.1.

That's what I'm in the middle of. The justification for the Elves' long pauses on the March vanishes - they were calculated on a 9-year pregnancy and 108-year childhood, while the latest model uses 3 and 72 years - but people aren't computers anyway, so a bit of leeway is acceptable. The sources above have already given me a date for the death of the Trees (VY 888/1), and that it's 600 years from there to the end of the Age, so the only troublesome section ahead is tying Galadriel's youth (XVIII) to her hair as the inspiration for the Silmarils (Shibboleth of Feanor, same approximate date), while staying true to the spirit of the Annals of Aman (which predate most of NoME and serve as the latest timeline of the Valinor years).

hS

[Huinesoron]

The timeline is restored! Making use of the now-accepted order of the NoME part 1 texts, I've constructed it from the latest sources back.

A lot of it fits together really nicely - the founding of Tirion (from the Annals of Aman) falls naturally at the beginning of a yen, and things like Melkor's release and the making of the Silmarils can be made to do so too. There are three main things I've missed off entirely:

- The Awakening of Men. Tolkien wanted this to be both well before the fall of the Trees, and at least 50 (long) Valian Years after the Awakening of the Quendi. But he also wanted only 38 VY between Elves awakening and the Trees going dark. It doesn't fit; I'd have to invent a date.

- The birth of Galadriel. With the timelines we have, she cannot simultaneously be pre-adult at the Darkening, and older than the Silmarils, but that's what the two latest sources tell us. If Tolkien wanted to reconcile them, he would have needed to dramatically reduce the timeline between those two events, and he never indicated such a change.

- The birth of Aredhel. I'm annoyed by this, because it's actually one of the last dates Tolkien added to the Annals of Aman. But the Annals make the Aman years about 1.5x the length they are in later timelines, and I just can't fit her in before the Silmarils are created without pretty much inventing dates for all Finwe's descendents. So she has been excluded.

I also see from this thread that there's a mention of the March crossing Caradhras somewhere in NoME 3. I'm... just gonna hope that's earlier than the timelines that say otherwise.

hS

[Tar Elenion]

Thank you.

[Arvegil145]

Originally Posted by Huinesoron

The timeline is restored! Making use of the now-accepted order of the NoME part 1 texts, I've constructed it from the latest sources back.

A lot of it fits together really nicely - the founding of Tirion (from the Annals of Aman) falls naturally at the beginning of a yen, and things like Melkor's release and the making of the Silmarils can be made to do so too. There are three main things I've missed off entirely:

- The Awakening of Men. Tolkien wanted this to be both well before the fall of the Trees, and at least 50 (long) Valian Years after the Awakening of the Quendi. But he also wanted only 38 VY between Elves awakening and the Trees going dark. It doesn't fit; I'd have to invent a date.

- The birth of Galadriel. With the timelines we have, she cannot simultaneously be pre-adult at the Darkening, and older than the Silmarils, but that's what the two latest sources tell us. If Tolkien wanted to reconcile them, he would have needed to dramatically reduce the timeline between those two events, and he never indicated such a change.

- The birth of Aredhel. I'm annoyed by this, because it's actually one of the last dates Tolkien added to the Annals of Aman. But the Annals make the Aman years about 1.5x the length they are in later timelines, and I just can't fit her in before the Silmarils are created without pretty much inventing dates for all Finwe's descendents. So she has been excluded.

I also see from this thread that there's a mention of the March crossing Caradhras somewhere in NoME 3. I'm... just gonna hope that's earlier than the timelines that say otherwise.

hS

Out of sheer curiosity, what would that same timeline you posted look like when translated into the 'Annals of Aman' tradition (i.e. YT 1050 - YT 1500) with the Valian year lasting for 9.582 solar years?

[Huinesoron]

Originally Posted by Arvegil145

Out of sheer curiosity, what would that same timeline you posted look like when translated into the 'Annals of Aman' tradition (i.e. YT 1050 - YT 1500) with the Valian year lasting for 9.582 solar years?

Okay, let's do a quick rundown, converting "Final Timeline" dates into "AAm YT" dates:

YT 1050: Awakening of the Quendi.
YT 1110: Melkor discovers the Quendi and builds Angband.
YT 1260 (AAm 1085): Orome discovers the Quendi.
YT 1265 (AAm 1090): Valar decide to attack Melkor.
YT 1280 (AAm 1102): Ambassadors travel to Valinor.
YT 1281 (AAm 1104): Great Debate.
YT 1282 (AAm 1105): Great March begins.
YT 1303: March reaches Greenwood.
YT 1304 (AAm 1115): March reaches Anduin.
YT 1333 (AAm 1125): March reaches Beleriand.
YT 1334 (AAm 1128): Teleri reach Beleriand.
YT 1349 (AAm 1130): Elwe lost.
YT 1350 (AAm 1133): Noldor and Vanyar land in Aman.

Most of the events in Aman are dated in my timeline from the Annals anyway, so I'll just end with:

YT 1615 (AAm 1495): Death of the Two Trees.

The biggest difference is that the later timelines add almost 200 "YT" between the Awakening and the Finding. That was, ultimately, the reason Tolkien made all these changes: to give the Quendi time to grow a big enough population for all the trials he needed to put them through. The later timeline also extends the stay by Anduin, and the stay in Beleriand; but then chops the years in Aman down by about 100 YT.

Put another way: if Imin went with the March and reached Valinor, then by the time the Trees died he would have spent 5/6 of his life living under them by the Annals - but only 1/2 of it under the "Final Timeline".

hS

[Arvegil145]

Originally Posted by Huinesoron

Okay, let's do a quick rundown, converting "Final Timeline" dates into "AAm YT" dates:

YT 1050: Awakening of the Quendi.
YT 1110: Melkor discovers the Quendi and builds Angband.
YT 1260 (AAm 1085): Orome discovers the Quendi.
YT 1265 (AAm 1090): Valar decide to attack Melkor.
YT 1280 (AAm 1102): Ambassadors travel to Valinor.
YT 1281 (AAm 1104): Great Debate.
YT 1282 (AAm 1105): Great March begins.
YT 1303: March reaches Greenwood.
YT 1304 (AAm 1115): March reaches Anduin.
YT 1333 (AAm 1125): March reaches Beleriand.
YT 1334 (AAm 1128): Teleri reach Beleriand.
YT 1349 (AAm 1130): Elwe lost.
YT 1350 (AAm 1133): Noldor and Vanyar land in Aman.

Most of the events in Aman are dated in my timeline from the Annals anyway, so I'll just end with:

YT 1615 (AAm 1495): Death of the Two Trees.

The biggest difference is that the later timelines add almost 200 "YT" between the Awakening and the Finding. That was, ultimately, the reason Tolkien made all these changes: to give the Quendi time to grow a big enough population for all the trials he needed to put them through. The later timeline also extends the stay by Anduin, and the stay in Beleriand; but then chops the years in Aman down by about 100 YT.

Put another way: if Imin went with the March and reached Valinor, then by the time the Trees died he would have spent 5/6 of his life living under them by the Annals - but only 1/2 of it under the "Final Timeline".

hS

Interesting!

But the motive behind my original question (other than curiosity) was that I'm trying to fit a square peg into a round hole, so to speak:

1) The 'square peg' being Tolkien's various 144:1 SY to VY conversions, the messing around with the dates in general, and the plethora of other things incompatible with:

2) The 'round hole' - being Tolkien Gateway's policy of adopting the 'Annals of Aman' timeline + the 9.582:1 SY to VY conversion.


So now I'm left trying to include as much information as possible from Tolkien's 'latest' writings on these subjects (such as the birth-years for certain characters such as Ingwe, Finwe, Elwe, etc.), while also following the YT 1050-1500 timeline!

And as if that was not enough, there is the question of whether I should use Tolkien's later '24/25 generations scheme at the time of the Great Debate', or the previous (and much more manageable for TG purposes) '5/6 generations scheme'.



All in all, since Tolkien Gateway uses the flat-world, published Silmarillion, 'Annals of Aman' scheme, I think the best approach would be to convince the recalcitrant folks there to simply tweak the year of the Awaking of the Quendi from YT 1050 to YT 1000 or something along those lines...but I'm getting ahead of myself.

[Huinesoron]

Originally Posted by Arvegil145

So now I'm left trying to include as much information as possible from Tolkien's 'latest' writings on these subjects (such as the birth-years for certain characters such as Ingwe, Finwe, Elwe, etc.), while also following the YT 1050-1500 timeline!

Yikes. Um, hmm. Probably the best approach on the birth years would be to keep their ages at the Debate the same - that was what Tolkien was trying to fix when he set their birthdates. It still keeps them born between the Finding and the Debate, without having to alter the time before the Finding.

Originally Posted by Arvegil145

And as if that was not enough, there is the question of whether I should use Tolkien's later '24/25 generations scheme at the time of the Great Debate', or the previous (and much more manageable for TG purposes) '5/6 generations scheme'.

Um. Hmm. The Annals has a much shorter timeframe here - 330 years or so compared to 2000 in Tolkien's later schemes, or 800-odd in the earliest ones in XVII.3. You'd have to assume a generation of ca. 50 years to get six in, which means Ingwe (born 140 years before the March) should be waiting eagerly for his great-grandchildren by the time they set out. That does actually fit with... is it LaCE that says Elves reached adulthood in 50 years? It means a lot of characters (Finwe, Elwe, Indis) put off getting married for a long time, but I suppose you could rationalise that as being because of the changes taking place in their society.

Originally Posted by Arvegil145

All in all, since Tolkien Gateway uses the flat-world, published Silmarillion, 'Annals of Aman' scheme, I think the best approach would be to convince the recalcitrant folks there to simply tweak the year of the Awaking of the Quendi from YT 1050 to YT 1000 or something along those lines...but I'm getting ahead of myself.

That seems like it would be hard to reference?

I do want to say that the Gateway is a fantastic reference source, so thank you for all your work over there.

hS