Riddles in the Downs

[Galadriel55]

So, a few disconnected thoughts, to maybe help the collective effort.

We have 6 iterations of "a [kinsman] to a [kinsman, mostly]". Then there is "a chain of 6 who never met" - begging the connection that it just links all the above statements together, as opposed to a whole separate chain of 6. The difficulty? "The husband to the first" I initially took to mean "the first line/sister/answer" - but that implies a meeting between two answers, it is very hard to be a husband without ever meeting your wife, long-distance relationships aren't popularized in Middle-earth. So perhaps "first" does not, after all, refer to the first line, but to an actual First of some sort.

So what do all the relationship statements have in common? As the only concrete clue we have is the question in the end, my inclination is that they are somehow related to deaths - perhaps actuall killing, or prophecies, or even curses. Actual killings - I have trouble coming up with that many examples of kinslaying in first degree relatives, so probably not. But it does generally put me in mind of the Hurin family and the Gondolin fiasco as potential rich sources for answers. Another instance that comes to mind is Finrod's "I must be free to fulfil my vow" as potentially one of the brother/sister pairs. Were there any good Numenorian child/parent examples? I feel like there ought to be.

[Urwen]

Or maybe the six of them were literally chained with a chain. Except no women were ever chained. Unless you mean a metaphorical chain...like Miriel being chained by Pharazon, or Eowyn being chained by expectations...

[Urwen]

Or maybe it is Hurin's family. After all, Turin and Nienor were both brother and sister and husband and wife. And if this is the case, well, I am the one who died first.

[Huinesoron]

Originally Posted by Galadriel55

We have 6 iterations of "a [kinsman] to a [kinsman, mostly]". Then there is "a chain of 6 who never met" - begging the connection that it just links all the above statements together, as opposed to a whole separate chain of 6. The difficulty? "The husband to the first" I initially took to mean "the first line/sister/answer" - but that implies a meeting between two answers

Which would be a problem... why?

'tis neither Gondolin nor the House of Hurin.

hS

[Urwen]

Originally Posted by Huinesoron

Which would be a problem... why?

hS

Because it specifically says 'the chain of six that never met'. Unless the six are linked by a common bond/chain...but with that, I keep thinking Turin is that chain...

[Galadriel55]

As a different take, I decided to draw this out as a family tree, taking the first member of each line to be the same as the second of the preceding line. We get a pair of male/female siblings marrying a pair of male/female cousins - a closed chain, if you will. Now, do I really have to go perusing through the genealogies to find this pattern?

Hmmm...

Hurin/Huor and Rian/Morwen are siblings marrying cousins, but they are not male/female pairs.

Hareth/Haldir/Galdor/Gloredhel are male/female pairs, but I think both pairs are siblibgs, not cousins.

Darn it! Fiddling with bits of genealogy, I can only make pieces fit, but not the whole thing. Urwen, you tend to be better at this stuff than I am. Can you spot the pattern?

Now your hint about Not Hobbits makes a lot of sense.

[Urwen]

Sorry, but I am clueless here too, as both of my guesses were incorrect.

[Urwen]

I think I have it.

A sister to a brother - Eowyn to Eomer
A husband to a wife - Eomer to Lothiriel
A daughter to a father - Lothiriel to Imrahil
A brother to a sister - Imrahil to Finduilas
A mother to a son - Finduilas to Faramir
A husband to the first - And Faramir married Eowyn

Except that everyone involved met at least once...unless you're trickily referring to he fact that most of them never met Finduilas herself, who died first.

[Huinesoron]

Originally Posted by Urwen

I think I have it.

A sister to a brother - Eowyn to Eomer
A husband to a wife - Eomer to Lothiriel
A daughter to a father - Lothiriel to Imrahil
A brother to a sister - Imrahil to Finduilas
A mother to a son - Finduilas to Faramir
A husband to the first - And Faramir married Eowyn

Except that everyone involved met at least once...unless you're trickily referring to he fact that most of them never met Finduilas herself, who died first.

Spot on! The chain (or family) never all met, because at least one (Lothiriel) was born after Finduilas died. I suspect they're the only non-Hobbit family who form that particular chain, but if you'd found another one I would have given it to you for that.

Great teamwork, and sorry it was a bit of a clumsy riddle. Over to you.

hS