**Spoiler Warning** Rings of Power S1E8 - "Alloyed"

[Formendacil]

More sustained thoughts to come later... the TLR is that I generally liked things in this episode but generally feel--like last episode--that the pacing is wobbly and there are inexplicable adaptational choices made. I think it ends the season on a comparative high note, but that's not without many, many caveats.

• Wow, it feels like ages since I watched this--the recap feels ancient, including stuff that JUST happened.

• A mysterious apple-thief/spy? Haven't you introduced enough new--oh, oh never mind. It's the creepy white cloaks.

• Well THEY think he's Sauron, anyway.

• I will miss the opening credits being in my life each week.

• Lindon looks impressive--or is that Eregion? Does Eregion exist in this world?

• Oh, are the Rings supposed to be the back-up plan to the Mithril Sun-Baths? It's... quite the dramatisation, but...

• Elrond, YOU are the healer, right? Why aren't YOU doing any healing?

• "The only thing we can do" just doesn't hit--hackneyed writing!

• Oh, do we get an actual Celebrimbor scene?

• Even if Halbrand isn't Sauron, this is a good Annatar-baity scene.

• "A gift"--okay, that's even more Annatar-baity.

• "Forge a tomb"--you don't forge tombs, Pharazôn!

• Why are you talking to Númenor's apprentices? This sounds very plot-convenient, Pharazôn. You should be talking to the island's master craftsmen.

• While he's a bit atextual, crazy seer Tar-Palantír is effective.

• Gil-galad being the one who DISLIKES this plan feels out of character for THIS Gil-galad, but closer to the book. I don't understand this Gil-galad's motivations.

• "Return to Lindon"--okay, this hastily-erected city that looks ancient actually is Eregion. Gotta keep it.

• More Halbrand-is-Annatar bait.

• The fact that Galadriel is researching Halbrand's background feels like more Annatar-bait. But at what point do I have to admit it isn't bait but what the plot actually is.

• Well, that was ominous, Halbrand--the point seems to be coming. So, of course, let's switch to the Starman plot.

• Okay, but why are the stars strange in the East? That's not exactly how it works in this world. And, yes, Aragorn spoke of walking far in the east--but also the south!--where the stars are strange. Is this just bad research or a comment on the flatness of the world?

• Look, Harfeet, at some point you should just consider him lost on the road--this seems a very bad--oh, hang on: we have Blue Wizards, me thinks! Or some sort of weird duplication.

• Awww, no, it's not two Starmen--it's a disguise.

• These White Cloaks continue to be sufficiently creepy.

• Wait, the association with fire is supposed to be a Gandalf thing, isn't it?

• Too much CGI.

• "Istar" well, that would seem to be confirmed, whichever Istar he is.

• This is an overly dramatic death scene--and your magic wizard is RIGHT THERE.

• Also, doesn't dawn seem to have arrived really conveniently? Like, right after midnight?

• "Does not merely mean one who loves the stars" is a nicely tight and understated--and unspoken--way of saying it.

• Well THERE are the black, erm, sails of the Númenóreans--kinda. Context is all wrong. Dramatic, but not consistent.

• "Ourselves," Galadriel? You're not quite part of the smithing, are you?

• Well, Halbrand, I guess you're Annatar by default now.

• I feel like Arondir or, say, Bronwyn should have told you this, Galadriel. The way they responded to "King Halbrand" makes this look like a last minute change.

• But it is a dramatic reveal. The music works, and that's some of his better dialogue.

• Oh yeah, that's what they thought Finrod looked like...

• This is a nonsense dream? mind-invasion? scene--but the lies Sauron is whispering are fairly in character.

• The Ring always offered power and rule, I suppose.

• I don't know if we can believe a word this Sauron says... but if we could, it's got some textual support.

• "Three Rings for the Elven-Kings," I guess.

• Giving up her blade for the Rings is... unexpected, but I suppose I like it.

• So we just need confirmation if Starman is Gandalf or a Blue Wizard--the indications would seem to be Gandalf. A Blue Wizard I'd enjoy... Gandalf annoys me: it's such a case of prequelitis (stuffing things into the prequel from the first story "because" when it doesn't have to be there.

• I do sort of thematically like the idea of Gandalf getting to meet the Hobbits before they can possibly remember it, but it offends my sense of timeline--and how is Gandalf to get Narya from Círdan as he arrives at the Havens?

• Hobbits imparting advice at parting is nice as a concept.

• Was that supposed to be a Gandalf pre-quote?

• You don't look hot next to this forge, Galadriel. An elf is supposed to always look cool, I suppose.

• Travelled to Mordor rather quickly, didn't we, Halbrand?

• It's weird getting end credits...

• So, do we get a new set of Rings at the end of each season? Dwarves at the end of 2, Men at the end of three, Sauron at the end of 4--and then the Last Alliance in Season 5?

[Tar Elenion]

Elrond seems to have become a healer in the Third Age.

However, the show established, in the first episode, that *Elves don't really have healers, as their bodies heal with out aid. They have artisan's who make works of art to heal the soul.

[Boromir88]

I must admit that was a satisfying end to a season finale. It's just nice to have some key characters revealed and seeing a general direction of where the showrunner's creation is heading. There are issues I have mostly with the pacing and writing overall in Season 1. I'm not sure if it will get better, but at least the finale paid off to leave me interested and anticipating Season 2. I can enjoy a slow burn, if done well, but the middle episodes felt more like a slog and unnecessary time filler more than actually progressing anywhere. Now watching the pay off, my interests are piqued again to imagine where future seasons will go.

So, I was expecting to hate it if Halbrand turned out to be Sauron. Now that I know he is, I actually don't hate it. Part of it might be I just wasn't interested in the Galadriel/Halbrand plot. After the previous episode, I was wrapping my head around Halbrand is probably going to be Sauron, so let's see how they pull this "reveal" off. I think both actors stepped up and into their roles in the finale that I'm ok with it. I like a Sauron 2nd Age redemption fanfiction and glad they went that route with someone who was redeemed after Morgoth's defeat. They left open a potential that if Galadriel never brought Halbrand to Middle-earth, or even indeed if he was never brought to Eregion, perhaps events would have played out differently. I like the Halbrand is Sauron better than I thought I would, because of the Sauron 2nd Age "fair form" redemption after Morgoth's defeat is a good story.

It convinces me that the showrunners understand the source material and are inspired by the story they're adapting. I see it in their portrayal of the orcs, the trenches, the pay off in the Halbrand/Sauron plot. I would even say, I've seen enough where they understand the story more than Peter Jackson did. So, why am I still kind of disappointed and not immediately taken in like I was with Peter Jackson's films?

Well, I think to Jackson's credit, he put better people around him, and more qualified experts from the Tolkien community that at times he listened to. The pacing was far better (I'm speaking strictly of the LOTR trilogy, btw), but I also must admit pacing for 3, 3+hour films is going to be different than a 50-hour episodic series. That's part of it, but the main source of disappointment with Season 1 is it seemed to play this odd, middle-ground. I honestly think I would have liked it more if they had gone crazier with it, instead of this quasi-don't break too far from Jackson's films so we can appeal to those fans. They tempted us with some bold and crazy ideas (that from a fanfiction POV might have worked or completely bombed), but in the end decided to not want to stray too far from the films, or PJ's visions. Even hitting it over our heads with the similar movie quotes this episode. That's my main disappointment.

Maybe the story-telling kinks will get worked out in future seasons, maybe not? I don't know, but like I said I do know that the finale at least did its job to answer what I wanted answered at this point. They finally got to the forging of the 3 rings. The ring verse song in the end credits was wonderful as well.

That's kind of all I have time for at the moment, getting sleepy. There's more, smaller tidbits with the episode I enjoyed, that I'll put in the cherry-picking thread.

[Oddwen]

"Lord Sauron" Huh. I'll believe THAT if it still stands at the end of the episode.

SUNFRUIT CALLOUT

"Six days ago. We rode wihout rest. Can you help him?"
"Well not anymore!!!"

"The master I apprenticed to" yeah yeah yeah everyone was apprenticed to Aule, you aren't special

"His hand never touched or sullied them"

Pardon me while I lay on the floor and groan for a while at Halbrannatarwurst inventing the elven rings to Celebrimbor's face.

"Call it.....a gift" EFFFFFFFF YOUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU

Go not to the elves for counsel, for they will say both 'hope is never mere' and 'it is a fool's hope'


Gil-Galad is cynical and doom-besotten as all get-out in this but I really like the actor's face. So you know, I'm perfectly balanced between two points and all that.


Galadriel's green dress is pretty.

"He weights all things to a nicety in the scales of his malice"

THE LANDS OF RUNE????? (I'm glad I get to hear one of my favorite lines "where the stars are strange")

Sadoc : (

Mothrandir strikes again!

Just tell them Galadriel!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Poppy

"Nobody goes off trail" Except for Nori we're running her off the road byeeeee! (I know her name is "Brandy"foot but will she be the progenitors of Tooks or Baggins? Or will she meet them in season 2?)

Poppy

"Just follow your nose" Okay she is a proto-Brandybuck. Is it Tolkien? Not quite. Is it endearing? Yeah. (Also The Strangedalf lapsing into slightly more formal language - almost too much? Have they been using all of that terrible dialogue on purpose all this time?)

Celebrimbor: :}

So I'm not a metalsmith but I (used to be? will be again?) am a glass-smith, and that is my not-at-all professional opinion that that's a needlessly complicated apparatus.

Elven riiiiiiiiinggssssss (the jewels aren't cut???? those are some really small tanning beds. what will Sauron make the Seven and the Nine out of?)

Okay. I'mma say it since no-0ne else has yet. Elendil is a a little bit delectable even without the Helmendil. Thanks for coming to my T.E.D.talk. (The Elendil D.......emeanor)







So I agree with B88 that they revealed the Halbrand/Sauron not too terribly - I like the idea of Sauron thinking he's redeeming himself but still greedy and not quite able to grasp what "healing" actually is, still grasping for power over and not power to heal or preserve, looking forredemption in all the wrong places - he did try to repent out of guilt several times as I recall, not out of desire to do good in itself - and really, who could be considered his equal in Middle-earth if not Galadriel?

Originally Posted by B88

Well, I think to Jackson's credit, he put better people around him, and more qualified experts from the Tolkien community that at times he listened to.

Jackson's greatest feat was the artisans he brought in - Howe & Lee, the craftsmen who wrought the armor, clothing, sets, jewelry and special effects/Weta workshop - as well as the the land that shaped him. I hear that future seasons will not be filmed in New Zealand for budgetary reasons (eff you and your budget amazon) which is incredibly sad, as nature and the preservation thereof is a core of Tolkien's beliefs and work. Not sure which thread to put that thought but there it is.

[Gil-Galad]

Originally Posted by Oddwen

I hear that future seasons will not be filmed in New Zealand for budgetary reasons (eff you and your budget amazon) which is incredibly sad, as nature and the preservation thereof is a core of Tolkien's beliefs and work. Not sure which thread to put that thought but there it is.

That is disappointing. They made a big fuss about having a 1 billion dollar(insert Dr. Evil voice) budget here but it really didn't feel like a 1 billion dollar budget show.

[Formendacil]

Boro brings up an interesting topic: Jackson vs. the Amazon team: who does it better?

Honestly, I think it's not a fair comparison, if you're comparing the LotR movies to RoP--RoP relies so much on the movies for establishing what the cinematic "feel" of Middle-earth is (New Zealand, certain looks for the Númenóreans, Howard Shore's motifs, etc, etc, etc.). And to make an LotR movie, Jackson had to compress Tolkien's story.

However, if you want to compare the Amazon team to Jackson's Hobbit movies, then I think it's a much fairer comparison: both are making prequels that rely on the LotR movies for Middle-earth's cinematic feel and both have a LOT of blank-filling (whether that was necessary in Jackson's case is another matter--let's pretend that it is). I think on that front that it's clear that the Amazon team has a deeper knowledge of Tolkien's lore and themes--and I'm not saying that Jackson doesn't love Tolkien, but I think Jackson loves The Lord of the Rings specifically whereas it's clear the Amazon team knows more than just the LotR--it's clear they know The Letters, the Silm, Unfinished Tales, and possibly more given their clear awareness of Tolkien's themes and ideas.

If you compare RoP to the The Hobbit movies, I think RoP comes out looking quite good in comparison (literally, if you remember the 48 fps decision), but it's not without flaws. For all that I want to praise the showrunners for their clear awareness of Tolkien's lore, I'm not at all convinced they're good writers or experienced storytellers. When I say "good writers," I mean their dialogue, which was rarely memorable, sometimes baffling (even just from an in-universe perspective), and just rarely sounded to my ear like "Tolkien." Granted, he's a HARD writer to mimic, but it should surely have been easier to get in the ballpark.

I also think that they simultaneously did very little this season and crammed too much in: when we FINALLY get to the making of the Rings in this final episode, it felt like this rushed by incredibly quickly and that we'd wasted most of the season getting to this point. The fact that Arondir, Bronwyn, Theo, Adar--i.e. the entire Southlands plot, was missing from this episode had that entire, time-consuming plot feeling overblown and digressive, and I think Númenor has been given the shortest shrift of the canon elements--so far, it has borne nearly the entire burden of the time distortion, and the motivation for this massively large civilisation sending a (tiny? powerful?) fleet to Middle-earth is hard to understand and really feels like it happened because "that's the plot."

My final verdict, I think, is that I overall liked the show (faint praise that I nonetheless only remember giving to one of the The Hobbit movies), found it quite flawed, yet nonetheless found it had enough interesting things and well-done things to hold my interest. Given how much that was through the lens of a Tolkien fan who enjoys dissecting this here, I'm not sure I'd recommend it for the general public, but I probably would defend it against the indiscriminate haters.

One thing that I find almost baffling, though, is how it cost so much--the most per episode of any television show ever. How? They're not paying famous actors. They're clearly not paying the most expensive writers. There are ample complaints I've seen (admittedly, on the Tumblr-verse) of how Amazon cuts corners with costume designers, CGI artists, etc (you know, basically, Amazon is the World's Worst Capitalist Excesses Evil Overlords™--in other words, they'll do everything that Netflix and Disney+ do to keep costs down and then some, because they are The Most Evil). I'm not saying that Amazon made this on a shoe-string budget, and it's clear that a lot of resources were poured in here, but... it's eight episodes. Perhaps it's simply a case of "money can't buy success," because the result feels exceptionally middling and it hasn't had the cultural impact Amazon wanted.

[Boromir88]

Originally Posted by Form

However, if you want to compare the Amazon team to Jackson's Hobbit movies, then I think it's a much fairer comparison: both are making prequels that rely on the LotR movies for Middle-earth's cinematic feel and both have a LOT of blank-filling (whether that was necessary in Jackson's case is another matter--let's pretend that it is). I think on that front that it's clear that the Amazon team has a deeper knowledge of Tolkien's lore and themes--and I'm not saying that Jackson doesn't love Tolkien, but I think Jackson loves The Lord of the Rings specifically whereas it's clear the Amazon team knows more than just the LotR--it's clear they know The Letters, the Silm, Unfinished Tales, and possibly more given their clear awareness of Tolkien's themes and ideas.

That is an excellent point and I think your post has pinpointed the source of my disappointment in the series. Trying to compare it to the Lord of the Rings trilogy, out of perhaps an expectation that it could have the same impact as that trilogy did when I first watched them. It fell short, I agree there is hardly anything memorable (in a positive way) about the dialogue. The music is memorable, the visuals are memorable. The acting isn't memorable, but it's not a detriment for me either. That is aside from some of the peripheral characters. I think Megan Richards (the actress playing Poppy) was an absolute star among the Harfoots. I also enjoyed Lenny Henry (sad his character has died). I will be said when Durin Sr. leaves the screen for good. Robert Aramayo's Elrond has grown on me. Despite Celebrimbor not looking like the greatest Elven smith of the age, I loved Charles Edwards' take on being more of a mad scientist, with a passion for craftsmanship that leads to obsession. At this point, the only one I would call memorable (from an acting standpoint) in Season 1 is Poppy.

The letdown is comparing it to LOTR, when I agree with your point that The Hobbit is a fairer comparison. Comparing the series to The Hobbit, I would say the series is better. They demonstrated an understanding and a passion for Middle-earth's 2nd Age and hitting on Tolkien's themes about people working together for the common good, developing the orcs in ways that was far superior to Peter Jackson (or really any fantasy story I've seen), mortality vs. immortality, the glimmer of a Sauron redemption story (the reveal wasn't done terribly, it was just rushed).

The only bits of dialogue that are memorable (in the non-cringe, but actually good) was Elrond and Durin's elevator conversation and Elrond and Gil-galad's conversation about oath breaking and hope (but that has the cringe "we need vast quantities of mithril immediately!" plot mixed in with it ).

I'm glad Form brought up this point about comparing the series to Lord of the Rings trilogy vs. The Hobbit. While I agree with the point, I think the flaw in the series is they are trying to actually build it up as a comparison to the LOTR trilogy, and Season 1 underdelivered. They could have gone further in creating an interesting AU, or fanfiction story, but they played this safe middle-road to not stray too far from PJ's LOTR vision. They've done some things better, but I don't like the sense I'm getting about The Stranger being Gandalf.

I would like it better, if the Stranger was one of the blue wizards, or because of copyright maybe can't be the blue wizard, but a generic Istar that was sent during the same time as Sauron's coming to confront him. Go crazy with the AU, have The Stranger go East and either try to weaken Sauron's growing power (maybe even form an alliance with Adar?), or join Sauron to defeat Adar, or whatever you want to do. My point is, it doesn't have to be Gandalf and the disappointment is it seems like that's the way they're going by blatantly ripping Gandalf's lines from the films.

Anway, there are a lot of kinks to work out, but overall I agree with Form's comment:

My final verdict, I think, is that I overall liked the show (faint praise that I nonetheless only remember giving to one of the The Hobbit movies), found it quite flawed, yet nonetheless found it had enough interesting things and well-done things to hold my interest. Given how much that was through the lens of a Tolkien fan who enjoys dissecting this here, I'm not sure I'd recommend it for the general public, but I probably would defend it against the indiscriminate haters.

In my case, I would go even further and say that is not something that I felt the need to do with The Hobbit trilogy. I never felt a desire to defend those movies from the critics, because it just didn't interest me enough to do so. I've found the Rings of Power to have several kinks to work out (I'm not sure they're capable of doing it) but the Season 1 finale sparked enough interest I can imagine its potential and intrigued by the possibilities. I hope future seasons break more from PJ's LOTR, and they create a different vision. Higher risk, but also higher rewards.