**Spoiler Warning** Rings of Power S1E8 - "Alloyed"

[William Cloud Hicklin]

All I can say us that I don’t in the least regret having given this a miss.

[Boromir88]

Originally Posted by William Cloud Hicklin

All I can say us that I don’t in the least regret having given this a miss.

I can understand and respect that adaptations aren't everyone's cup of tea (or whatever particular drink of choice you prefer). For what it's worth, you don't strike me as a person who shames fans like myself, or think that somehow enjoying adaptations make me a 'lesser' Tolkien fan.

I understand members on this forum who don't think film and media adaptations are necessary to bring Tolkien's story to life. If I was brought up and introduced to the books first, maybe my opinions would be the same. I share similar opinions to the gripes on Hollywood, towards Amazon and Disney...etc. Why put in the hard work of creating an original story, when you can just smack on Tolkien branding and make higher profits (or believe that it will make more money)? Adaptations, fanfiction, "remakes" are here and don't appear to be going away anytime soon.

As Form and Oddwen have said, I think it's accurate to say Peter Jackson loved The Lord of the Rings. It shows if you've watched the documentaries about the making of LOTR. And to his credit he put together a more talented, and knowledgeable team and cast of actors around him that were just as passionate (if not even more so) about Lord of the Rings.

With Season's 1 conclusion, I would argue with anyone that it's clear to me Payne and McKay read about and we're inspired by the Middle-earth's 2nd Age; particularly the Rings of Power and Fall of Eregion and Numenor. I agree with Form and everyone else here, that the Amazon team, leaves a lot to be desired. I don't know if they'll get the warts out to elevate the series to have the impact the LOTR trilogy did. But the finale did it's job for me, in the way of "ok it's finally going somewhere" and answered the questions that needed answered. I'm intrigued by the possible paths future seasons can follow.

-The Stranger (might as well just call him Gandalf now ) is heading East. I'm interested to see what they do with Rhun.
-I want to see how Celebrimbor and Sauron's relationship plays out. I like Charles Edward's take by truly showing Celebrimbor's craftsmanship is leading to an obsession and tragedy. His interaction at meeting Halbrand (and someone with shared passion). His facial expression when Galadriel says they're never to treat with Halbrand again was spot on. It was an "about that...yeah that's not going to happen and who are you to give me that advice?"
-I'm most intrigued by what alliances will form? Sauron and Adar are heading for a collision course. Who allies with Adar? Does Sauron "steal away" the loyalty and reverence the orcs have for Adar? What part does Numenor play during Sauron and Adar's confrontation?
-And obviously more rings need to be forged.

[Boromir88]

I want to bring up another point I was thinking about with the season finale, that has been brought up. With Sauron being in Celebrimbor's forge and the process being underway, how is it they're dealing with the fact Sauron "never touched or sullied the 3 Elven Rings."

It's easy to miss because of how rushed and crammed the finale was, but they didn't decide to forge 3 rings until almost the very end. When Halbrand was helping and aiding Celebrimbor in the forge, the plan was to make 1 crown that they would give to Gil-galad. It wasn't until after Galadriel's temptation and refusal of Sauron that Galadriel, Elrond and Celebrimbor decided to forge 3 rings. Galadriel says something like "1 is too powerful for a single person, 2 will divide, 3 there's balance." So, that's why Galadriel doesn't stop the forging of rings process, and how I think they are addressing the "Sauron never touched or sullied the 3 Elven Rings." It wasn't going to be 3 rings until like the last 5 minutes of the episode. Which is problematic from their decision to cram this all into the finale, but not as problematic as Sauron telling Celebrimbor "hey let me help forge some rings." I actually do want to see the finale again relatively soon, because I think it's Celebrimbor who brings up it should be rings for their "circular form". The idea of a circle being the most powerful shape in the world sounds very Tolkienian. I recall old lore threads about the symbolism of circular forms and rings. So, that was a nice touch.

[Huinesoron]

Well! I did not expect actual Rings of Power, though the props are very pretty. I guess Elrond's getting Vilya straight out of the gate?

I do actually remember thinking that the best way to pull the Annatar surprise would be to have him enter Eregion under another name, and be given the name Annatar later, so that people who knew the books would also be surprised. I... didn't expect all that to happen in 20 minutes, though. o.O

I feel like they wrote Halbrand so that you can go back and rewatch him, to see whether he ever lied (I'm guessing not). I remembered him yelling at Adar about the unspecified terrible thing he did to him - which came, in hindsight, not long before Adar confessed to killing Sauron. Should have listened, Artanis...

I confess to a moment of sudden horror when Elrond walked in to find Galadriel smiling at the new Rings, because... evil characters had been shapeshifting in this very episode, and what if 'Galadriel' was actually Halbrand now??? But she wasn't, so that's fine. Would have been a fun twist though.

I might come back and do a rundown of where everyone ended up and how I feel about it, but for now I'll just say that this house ships Miriel/Elendil, but Nori/Poppy even harder.

hS

[Boromir88]

Originally Posted by Huey

I feel like they wrote Halbrand so that you can go back and rewatch him, to see whether he ever lied (I'm guessing not). I remembered him yelling at Adar about the unspecified terrible thing he did to him - which came, in hindsight, not long before Adar confessed to killing Sauron. Should have listened, Artanis...

Indeed, I do want to rewatch Season 1 at some point (just not sure when that will happen, because I still want to watch Andor and House of the Dragon...plus all my sportsball stuff

But, I do want to rewatch in the context knowing now Halbrand is Sauron. I think that will make the times when Halbrand is giving advice to Galadriel and Celebrimbor less jarring than at the time when you just think, why is this guy that Galadriel found on a raft teaching Galadriel?

Also, going back to one of my comments in Episode 4. Should have taken the clear foreshadowing for what it was...

I rather think that "advice" to Pharazon from within a jail cell scene, was foreshadowing and revealing more into Pharazon's character, than figuring out the Halbrand mystery. My current theory after Episode 4 is Halbrand becomes acclimated in Numenor and to Pharazon. Maybe becoming an advisor/general/captain under Pharazon and becoming a future Nazgul. I can see a future Nazgul being formerly important members of the King's Men. Anyway, I think this episode to be more revealing into Pharazon's and Miriel's character. The "Halbrand advising Galadriel and then Pharazon from within a jail cell" is foreshadowing for Pharazon's storyline, and doesn't answer the question of who is Halbrand? At least, that's my personal theory.

That is why I'm just going with it and admitting the Stranger is clearly Gandalf. Looks like Gandalf, sounds like Gandalf, he's with hobbits, there's no more ambiguity.

[Thinlómien]

Well... that was some finale. I had been spoiled about the Halbrand plot twist and I wonder at what point would I have seen it coming. Before I got spoiled (after seeing episode 4) I still thought the theory was ludicrous, mostly because the plot twist wouldn't make much sense. Should have known the writing in this show doesn't make much sense anyway, duh.

So, some thoughts based on the finale, the previous episode and the season overall:

Halbrand and Galadriel plot
Well, let's say that in retrospect it's entertaining, intriguing even. I'm not up for a thematic dissection, but I do like the idea of Sauron trying to corrupt Galadriel as Morgoth once corrupted him. I also find it very funny that basically Sauron's return is Galadriel's fault. So I hope Form isn't right and she didn't just arm the Witch-King too! Do I still think Halbrand's characterisation was weird and intentionally misleading? Yeah. And do I think it was stupid to make the whole season about "guess who's Sauron, here's 20 red herrings"? Certainly. I'm also extremely baffled by Galadriel not telling anyone who Halbrand was. Was she too ashamed to admit how she'd been fooled? And also, why on earth after centuries (?) of hunting Sauron, she suddenly gives up on it when she finally knows who he is and he's fleeing from her with just minutes of a head start??

The rings of power
Like others, I was not a fan of the forging of Elven rings speed run. I did like Saurobrandatar's part in it, but not Galadriel's. Still wishing they'd have gone in a different direction with Celebrimbor's portrayal, but whatever. (Give the bond of trust and sexual tension to Celebrimbor/Sauron, not Galadriel/Sauron, please. Also younger Celebrimbor's crush on the older and married Galadriel would have been fun to see. And more of some Feanorean passion too. Ah well...) I'm not going to deign the mithril solarium plotline with any further commentary, but it's nice to have the Elven rings now. I wonder how they're going to distribute them for starters. One for Galadriel, one for Elrond and one for Gil-Galad which will pass on to Gandalf later? Also wondering when we'll see the other rings being forged.

Gandalf and the hobbits
This plot had the best characters but the least development (and the most annoying red herrings). Can't say I'm very interested to see Gandalf and Nori's adventures in Rhûn next season. Seriously, what are they going to do for four more seasons? *yawn* (Gandalf will go east, then south, then take a boat and circle around to the Gray Havens to arrive on a ship? I sure hope not.)

The Dwarf plot
Interestingly enough, it probably has the most fleshed out relationship dynamics between characters. Not a fan of how stuff ties up to the mithril solarium plot (and what will they do with it now that the Elves won't need those anymore?) and curious about the friendship of Celebrimbor and Narvi and whether we're going to see that. The balrog was a huge letdown, you put that in the trailer and we see it for 0.5 seconds? Guess we'll see it again in season 5 or something... *another yawn*

The southlands and Adar
A displaced people without a leader? A boy with a (potentially) dark destiny? A star-crossed romance between an Elf and a human? That's a bunch of archetypes I could have found interesting. Alas, thanks to the clumsy writing with very little buildup anywhere, I don't really care about any of that. Cool, go to Pelargir and found a city. But how's that gonna provide plot for four more seasons? As I've said before, Adar on the other hand is the best character in the show by far. I'm genuinely curious about what will happen to him and his orcs, how they will be portrayed, and what the inevitable power struggle between Adar and Sauron will look like.

Númenor plot
Here we barely got started. What role will Míriel's blindness play? When will isildur come back from his fake death - or Anárion, for that matter? And there's a lot of story to tell about Pharazôn and Sauron, as well. I feel like this is probably the plotline that has the most material for future seasons.

All in all, I sadly found the series pretty subpar. The writing - pacing, dialogue, characters - is simply bad, which is a pity. I'm not convinced I will watch the future seasons. I cannot fathom how there will be material for four more seasons. They must be even more drawn out and boring than this one was at its worst. Sure, there are still some rings to forge and balrogs to wreak havoc and Celeborns to reappear (he can't be really dead) etc, but that won't be enough to hold my interest for 32 more episodes. My verdict is that this is a laudably ambitious project and not without merits, but overall a failure. Maybe it was always doomed to be one, given the (lack of) source material.

[Boromir88]

Originally Posted by Thinlómien

One for Galadriel, one for Elrond and one for Gil-Galad which will pass on to Gandalf later? Also wondering when we'll see the other rings being forged.
[B]

They have said Cirdan is coming in Season 2...and a bearded Cirdan:

https://time.com/6205027/cirdan-the-...ower-season-2/

If I recall correctly, from the books (not that this will be at all relevant to how they do it in RoP), Gil-galad at one time had Vilya and Narya. It was before the Last Alliance that Gil-galad gave Vilya to Elrond and Narya to Cirdan.

I'm not sure how or if they'll work Cirdan into getting Narya, but apparently he's coming i in Season 2. If I had to guess Cirdan gets Narya right away, after randomly appearing in Eregion (because that's the MO of how they're writing this), Gil-galad gets Vilya, Galadriel Nenya.

This is also part of the reason why they could have just cut Numenor out of Season 1. There was no need for Galadriel to be in Numenor, or Sauron to be there at this time. Apparently, they had to be for the "Numenor rides to save the Southlands" plot. It's so scatter-brained. Maybe, it will all come together, but why leave Cirdan for Season 2 if he's (I'm assuming) going to get Narya? Why not establish his character in Season 1 with the other prominent Elven "kings?"

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Okay, that was it. Let's cut to the chase.

Bad things: again unnecessary slow motion, and too many PJ referrences (staff-battle having person in white throwing Gandalf around, rotating him 90 degrees etc.). I am beginning to realise that this was actually never a show for Tolkien fans, this was a show for the movie viewers, not even those who have read the books (and therefore Appendices) afterwards. Because despite the fact that the showmakers had the access to the books, what they put in is literally just stuff that could be prequel to the movies, but not to the books. That is it. It makes perfect sense.

This is probably the time when the steeds are yet noble and speedy like Shadowfax, since after in the previous episode the Númenoreans somehow got from Anduin to Gorgoroth in one day, now Galadriel and Mr. Halbardsson got to Eregion in six days.

Questionable things:

So this show (or season) is about Galadriel encouraging a future Nazgul to become a fighter and Sauron to become Sauron. Well done.

The Galadriel-and-Harbinger sequence by the brook (apparently Glanduin, as attested by Elrond later) leaves me with mixed feelings. On the one hand, I do like that THIS IS FINALLY ANNATAR. This is how he should have been all the time, Master Deceiver, blah blah. Not some pseudo-aragorn who crawled out of a ditch.

I am somewhat freaked out by the near-romantic suggestions between the two of them. Though I admit that the suggestion of the alliance is cool. It is a different take on Galadriel's primary temptation, but it maintains the spirit. It is only a pity Galadriel did not have the "will to power" manifested basically at all throughout the entire season and, just like every plot here, it came pretty much out of the blue (ie, if you hadn't known about the Frodo-offering-the-Ring-temptation-scene, you'd probably be "where did this come from?").

The scene ending with them screaming at each other however was just ridiculous. If it was in a parody of PJ, I'd accept it, but this was meant to be serious. (I assume.)

Speaking of pseudo-aragorn who crawled out of a ditch. I do not know what I would have thought of the show had I not been spoiled about his identity beforehand (thanks Nogrod). I think I would have opposed the notion to the very last because it simply goes against everything I believe to be in the fundaments of Tolkien's world that Sauron would disguise himself as a "Strider". Meaning, just like the Hobbits tell Strider in Bree, an agent of evil would seem nice and clean on the outside and be foul on the inside, not the other way around.

Things I don't give a broken horseshoe about:

Sadly probably Nori and Mr. Mysterious Stranger. I kind of hope that their journey in the next season (if such season comes) will take them to proto-Erebor and proto-Dale where their plotlines could converge on, say, the plot of two out of Seven and Nine Rings (that's what I'd do if I was given this setup, probably).

Things that do not make any sense whatsoever:

Galadriel, who had been "vengeance, vengeance for my brother" the whole season, hunting for Sauron who everyone was convincing her was not around anymore, finally gives up her dagger the moment right after she actually found Sauron and had a confirmation that he lives. NOW would be the moment for her to don her shiny armour and ride out chasing him on a horse, screaming "vengeance!" But no. She casts away her dagger.

Continuing along the same plotline, I am able to feebly understand that Galadriel would want to hush-hush the fact that she had been trotting along with Sauron. But I do not understand that she does not say "ok, guys, abort the Ring-making process now, this is shady" and/or say "ahem, Mr. Harbsson disappeared pretty quick, don't we want to send a patrol after him? What if he stole something? (Such as your copyright, Celebrimbor?)" Or "ah guys, I just remembered I forgot my comb in Míriel's camp, can I just borrow the fastest horse? Be back in a moment."

Things that I sorta like:

Despite everything I have said about Mr. Hurdle-burdle, if I take a step back and cast away my presuppositions, I have to say that they handled Sauron pretty well in terms of not making him the stereotypical villain, and not even the stereotypical sneaky tempter (a la e.g. Chancellor Palpatine). I think the show has decidedly played on "everyone has good intentions": Sauron wants to heal, Adar wants his Orcs to have living space, Galadriel wants vengeance for her brother (ahem, that's actually a "bad" motivation... but let's say she wants justice upon the perpetrator of evil and his neutralisation for future... or wanted to), even the Dwarves seemingly will want to dig mithril not out of greed, but out of friendship.

So basically this show can be summed up as: everyone's motivations are good. But the means are what corrupts. Which is actually pretty cool.

And overall the show preserves the spirit, like I have said numerous times. Events do not happen in the chronological order that is in the books, they even happen completely differently, etc. But somehow the themes, the spirit as opposed to the letter, are preserved in one way or another.

I am glad that the plot had a focus from point A to point B, which is sadly not a given these days (looking at Star Wars sequels. Basically: if SW sequels had the pre-planning and focus this has, they'd have been ok. And vice versa, had RoP had at least the writing of dialogues and characters the SW sequels had, it would be a decent, okay show too.)

Yes, sadly, what sucks is the writing.
-no foreshadowing in plot, lots of red herrings that serve no purpose
-no buildup, things just happen and people just decide to do stuff,
-characters arbitrarily switch their priorities (we must do X - no wait I am breaking down and I am not doing X - ok no I am doing it after all; this all often happening within a single scene - I'd be okay with it if it at least happened during the span of an episode or ideally the season. See: Elrond's admission to Moria, Bronwyn giving up to the Orcs, Nori deciding she's leaving the Stranger, among many other things)
-the audience is given no explanation as to why someone is doing something or why is it important (the Key etc.)
-especially Elven dialogues sound 90% of the time like someone gave 5-year-old a thesaurus of fancy-sounding words and told them to write a story.

Final verdict? Will I watch another season (if one happens)? Honestly can't say. Probably would watch for interest's sake, or for the sake of a BD discussion.

If I had to express some thoughts in one sentence... Since I said that this show works in the spirit, but not in the letter, I would say this: I hope that on the long run, this show will bequeath its spirit, but will be forgotten in its form. (But I am similarly critical of PJ. In his case, I wish that about 50% of his form and 100% of his spirit - meaning everything that he brought in that was not Tolkien - was forgotten. So RoP really did much better on the spirit level, it brought new themes that are Tolkien-esque yet have not been touched before - e.g. the whole Orc redemption thingy, or the take on "everoyne had good motives", or the mortals-vs-immortals perception of time-dichotomy.)