Vanyar > Noldor? - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Gwaihir the Windlord · 11-16-2002, 08:16 PM

True, the Vanyar were important, for it was they who overthrew Morgoth. I don't say 'because of them', because if they didn't exist, I'm sure the Valar would have come themselves, or perhaps the Teleri would have filled in; but true, they did that great thing at least.

Lindil, when you say that the Vanyar had the highest civilisation, I must say I disagree. It was the happiest -- it was in Valinor, so of course it was -- but the Noldor's civilisation there and in Middle-Earth wasn't below theirs by any means. In Middle-Earth, the Noldor were concerned primarily with war, and could not afford to build great, light and 'height of civilisation' cities. The only exceptions, just about, were Rivendell and Gondolin, and considering that they were in Middle-Earth I think the Noldor did pretty well.

I do not think either of them were the greater. The Vanyar were the more idealistic race, the cooler in blood and the most joyous; the Noldor were perhaps more wordly and even down to Earth. Who is to say that either of them was better? They all have their great part and place in the scale of things in the Music.

But I will say this. The fate of Arda is very much bound up in Middle-Earth, and the Noldor were the ones who, for the most part, fought and struggled and had a big part in the history of that place.

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11-16-2002, 08:16 PM	#15
Gwaihir the Windlord Essence of Darkness Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: Evermore Posts: 1,420	True, the Vanyar were important, for it was they who overthrew Morgoth. I don't say 'because of them', because if they didn't exist, I'm sure the Valar would have come themselves, or perhaps the Teleri would have filled in; but true, they did that great thing at least. Lindil, when you say that the Vanyar had the highest civilisation, I must say I disagree. It was the happiest -- it was in Valinor, so of course it was -- but the Noldor's civilisation there and in Middle-Earth wasn't below theirs by any means. In Middle-Earth, the Noldor were concerned primarily with war, and could not afford to build great, light and 'height of civilisation' cities. The only exceptions, just about, were Rivendell and Gondolin, and considering that they were in Middle-Earth I think the Noldor did pretty well. I do not think either of them were the greater. The Vanyar were the more idealistic race, the cooler in blood and the most joyous; the Noldor were perhaps more wordly and even down to Earth. Who is to say that either of them was better? They all have their great part and place in the scale of things in the Music. But I will say this. The fate of Arda is very much bound up in Middle-Earth, and the Noldor were the ones who, for the most part, fought and struggled and had a big part in the history of that place.