Annoying Amateurs

[Thorongil]

I only know two persons other than myself who has read the book. All the others are too lazy. They like the movies, but the book is too much for them. They ask me questions about things not fully explained in the movie, so I tell them: read the book. But do they listen? Noooo.

[bilbo_baggins]

But you know all of us! We have read the books, too you know; or we would not be here to tell you, silly!

[Thorongil]

I guess you're right there.

[Fosco Burrows]

I've put the book in front of my housemate and all he does is flick through it reading the odd page, I've read it and if I do that it confuses me, what chance does he have?!
FB

[nynnd1]

I love reading the books, i know alot of people that say have but obviously havent, that is really annoying.

I have been looking for a copy of the Tom Bombadil book for ages but havent found one, and bombadil is my favourite character. is it worth tracking down or should i wait for a copy to find me.

[Hot, crispy nice hobbit]

Strangely, "Roverandom" was much easier to find than "The Adventures of Tom Bombadil" or "The Road Goes Ever On"...

My copy was a birthday present... *fingers the precious* but that was a real long time since... If you are really impatient, you should order it, but the cost would be so much higher...

[Saraphim]

Hey, Gil-Galad , I did the same thing! I even had one girl nearly in tears! Cruel, I know, but they were the annoying type. A few I knew actually carried the trilogy around with them, but when questioned about The Barrow-Downs, or the fogginess of it, they were clueless.

I discovered that they had only read the bits with Legolas in them. I almost beat them over the head with the trilogy.

[Araswooon]

Hello Bookworms.

Aawwwww I think your being very unfair to all them "newbies" to Lord Of The Rings. They had probably never read the books before the film came out, so give them a break eh?

I'm new to it myself, well slightly. I read the books when i was 12 and really loved them, and ever since i've been a fan of Tolkien, but i'm not as clued up as you lot. Since i joined several LOTR messageboards i've read Tolkien experts posts like yourselfs and have learned a great deal from people like you. I still get confused and ask daft questions, but unlike some i did know about the Trilogy before the film came out so i did know what was happening and who was who and so on. Please don't take the mick though because i'm sure they would have liked to have known the truth if you had told them without mocking them.

More people are starting to read the book because of seeing the film now, so please understand them a bit better, eh?

I'm impressed by all your knowledge by the way..

[Bêthberry]

This is a rather tardy reply to Nynnd1's comment:

I have been looking for a copy of the Tom Bombadil book for ages but havent found one, and bombadil is my favourite character. is it worth tracking down or should i wait for a copy to find me.

Lyta has kindly given a source in The Tolkien Reader but "The Adventures of Tom Bombadil" can also be found in the volume of faery tales, Tales from the Perilous Realm, a Harper Collins paperback, ISBN 0 261 10343 1. I rather like the cover, with its reverse chiaroscuro of black background with white shaded figures from the tales (a bit like my avatar, if I might with modesty point that out). I am fond of reading the stories in this collection because it highlights Tolkien's very good, to my mind, lecture "On Fairy-Stories."

The selection on Tom is really a collection of verse rather than prose story, but they all belong to the realm of faery. For your information, a blurb on the back of the book from The Listener calls TAoTB "Something close to genius."

[Sirithheruwen]

Originally Posted by Araswooon

More people are starting to read the book because of seeing the film now, so please understand them a bit better, eh?

I'm impressed by all your knowledge by the way..

These aren't the people we are talking about - in fact, I for one quite admire them and cheer them on! The people we're talking about are the people who have only seen the movies and think they are right about EVERYTHING. For example, some people think Tom Bombadil doesn't exist because he isn't in the movies. Or, when you tell them that Frodo sold Bag End to the Sackville-Baginnses, and went to "live" in Crickhollow, they: 1) Deny the existance of the Sackville-Bagginses, 2) Deny that Frodo sold Bag End, and 3) Deny the existance of Crickhollow, simply on the basis that "it wasn't in the movies." And THEN, they say, "And you call yourself a LOTR fan!" (And this is all based on experiance.)

[Araswooon]

Hello Sirithheruwen.

yeah i guess your right. So did you like the film? Did you prefer the book? What would you have included in the film?

[Nilpaurion Felagund]

Nope not where I come from. They watch the movies, enjoy Legs or the fight scenes, then forget Tolkien ever existed. Zwing!

A consolation is that no-one here claims to know everything. No annoying amateurs.

Don't you think there's a tad too much of th word ME around? I floored the guy. I easily explained it...fine you people have read a lot. but the way you brag only proves you know so little and have given up on learning. People read LOTR and think they are gurus. after silmarilion they blow up furthur. Cut some slack man there's so much to learn. Well never mind Snobs enrage me even more than the newbies the are the real I-am-the-true-LOTR-fan wannabies

, , | , ,

[Lyta_Underhill]

Don't you think there's a tad too much of th word ME around?

Short for Middle Earth, right? I figure there's got to be a place to brag about something I know, eh? The cool thing about ME is that, once you think you know something, you find more and more levels to it...and you discover just how much you don't know. I think this is true with people (both other people and yourself), as well as with Tolkien's works.

Cheers,
Lyta ( ME-obsessed )

[Kitanna]

So back in the day when I could barely read my dad gets this movie. It's the really old cartoon of the Fellowship of the Ring and it scared the crap out of me. Put me off from the Trilogy until the movies came out. Now it wasn't like I didn't know about them, (I mean my mom read me the Hobbit like four summers in a row and I loved it) but LOTR scared me and I never wanted to see it.

But I have to thank the movies. Because even as a freshmen in high school I was scared of that cartoon which I hadn't watched since I was four. My parents dragged me to see the Fellowship of the Ring and I fell in love. After that I had to read the books and learn everything there was to know.

And yes at first it was all about the movie, but I'd like to say I've come a long way since then. I can't stand the ones who haven't read or in some cases haven't heard of the books. And those that have that think they're so boring. I love the movies, but they lack so much from the books. Like Tom Bombadil, the Scouring of the Shire, and just little things that made the books for me.

So it sounds like I'm an amateur and I am, but I'm trying to shed that because I really do love the books and I could spend the rest of my life locked away reading them.

[Kransha]

Just to clarify...

This thread is not about some people, including me, talking about how Tolkein-smart we are and others are not. This is a thread were we vent about the people who think they know everything. We don't claim to know everything and are still learning, so we get annoyed when they claim to be experts when they clearly know less than us, who are not even truly experts ourselves. So, we prove our views to them by showing our humble knowledge and hoping that they'll learn that they don't know everything. We try, oh how we try, but with these folk, we rarely succeed.

This thread was, more or less, created to vent and talk about these 'amateurs.' I respect those who want to learn, since I also want to learn, but I cannot respect those who say they don't need to. I try to teach them, but they are the snobby ones, refusing to learn and insisting they know.

[Boromir88]

This is about people who have only watched the movie and think they know everything on LOTR. Or the ones that say they have read the books but they really haven't and they think the movies are the books.

Anyway easy questions here to tell if one has read the books or not that I will share. With some funny usual responses.

How many elves were at helms deep?
responses: "Ahh ya like you know the answer to that, I dont know 100?200?1000?"
"I can't count that much"<<<<I respond to that one with "you can't count to one"


Why did Gimli get mad at Eomer when they first met?

Who summoned the floods of Bruinen drowning the nazgul horses?
responses: I love the ones that say "Arwen" then you know they haven't read, but the ones that say "glorfindel" might have, even though "glorfindel" isn't the right answer.

Who is Sharkey?
Response: Hey, I thought you were asking LOTR questions

There are many more but I will not say the most funniest thing I've seen so far from a movie person has to be "Do you think PJ will make a LOTR 4."

[Boromir88]

Kransha, I do agree, I am not one that searches and destroys for movie people or do I like ones who do that. I could care less if one has read the books or not, and I encourage people to do so. It's the ones that lie and say they have read the books when they haven't. Those are the ones you ask my questions to above

[Finwe]

I apologize if we seem like we're snobbishly bashing other people with a genuine desire to learn. However, you can't condemn someone before reading or listening to what they have to say. We aren't bashing newbies or amateurs, in fact, we welcome them. We are just expressing our abject dislike of the amateurs who think that they know it all. Granted, the majority of amateurs are wonderful people. But there is that approximately 15% who thinks that because they know a few things, they know everything, and proceed to condemn everyone else. Those are the people we dislike. I apologize again if we seem otherwise, but you should listen to what the other "camp" has to say before passing any condemnations. Many posts in this thread clarify our position.

[Lady Snickerdoodle]

Yep well I've only been on here for less than a year or so but I read the Hobbit and LOTR when I was 7 and reread them a lot, but haven't read the Silm or any of the HoME... am I still an amateur? just wondering how far you have to go to become a Sensei. But then again, I don't think I'll ever say that I know everything, because that's kind of impossible.

Also, it really bothers me when people pronounce names or places from the books wrong, and then try and tell me that I'M wrong. Like just today, one of my brother's friends was going on about "Ee-o-whine" and refused to switch to "Aeowin" (im writing pronounciation obviously). Later, he was "wisely" explaining to another friend about how "Eeowhine" secretly wants to marry "Grime-a" but can't because "Strider" would get jealous. Also, I saw a review or fan fic somewhere where the author consistently spelled Sauron as Souron, which was irkful. And there's way too many long Americanized vowels I've heard to rant on about here.

[Etharius]

Just read the 1st post.

Get over it, why do you care what people thing they know.

[bilbo_baggins]

Because, Etharius: (As the title says) They're Annoying! There are some who you can't run away from, and confront you with multitudes of plagiaristic believings and false ideas. They are the ones we wish didn't not show off their fake knowledge and untrue wisdom so flagrantly. That's what this thread is about, discussing "Annoying Amatuers", and there is a point to the discussion.

And it's not that we care about what they do or don't know, it's that they show off prominently that they know exactly nothing more than the name of the book, it's author, and a character name or two. When they spread false ideas, it's not kind to other Tolkien-fans, and it's discouraging to interested young ones who would like to know more.

[Gil-Galad]

I agree with bilbo, this thread is about the annoying amateurs that think they know everything about lotr's just by watching the movie, it'll be like "hey , are you smart at lord of the rings?" "yah! i've seen every movie like 7 times!" "okay... prove it!" "fine, ask me a question, i'll get it right!" "who was Tom Bombadil?"
"tom bombadilaidapo? who the **** is that? you loser ask me some real questions"...............that is basically what most things happen with amateurs, and it is our privlege nay, duty to point them out and laugh at them wit ha deep HA HA HA, you know, from your diaphram. its better to be a tolkien know-it-all then just a little man that watches the movies and remembers every line they say. well that is my little speech, that'll cost yah 20 thousand each! good day!



must...dance...the...night...away...hey a nickel!

[nynnd1]

huhrrah for Gil-Galad, probably the best and most truthful point anyone has ever said!

[ElberethVarda]

My brother always does that... and he hasn't seen the movies! He always is saying, "Legolas shoots his arrows so fast! It's so awesome!" He tries to seem like he knows more than people who have seen the movies. It's very annoying.

[Olorin_TLA]

I know someone who, when I pointed out that Uruk-hai weren't gronw like potatoes as PJ shows them, actually said that I and Tolkien must be wrong, and got uber-aggresive. Riiiight...

[Olorin_TLA]

Also, though non-book readers can't be blamed, it's annoying when a book-lover wuotes a line that was changedin the film, from the film. It's like the book was erased from their memories...

[Laitoste]

My personal opinion on this is that we are all, technically, amateurs. Unless someone else is getting paid to be here. Then I want to know why THEY are and I'M not. Because that's not fair.

Anyway, I've been here since November (2003), and I still consider myself to be an amateur. I've read The Hobbit and The Lord of the Rings countless times. I still consider myself an amateur. I've read The Silmarillion a couple of times (and didn't understand a word of it until I heard the book-on-tape ). I still consider myself an amateur. Why? Because I don't know HALF as much as I could. I can "show off" my knowledge to random people, but I don't know that much. I can correct people (nicely) when they make a mistake.

I, fortunatly, have not had much of an experience with "annoying" amateurs. The only ones I know are my brother and my cousin, and they just say stupid stuff to make me angry. And when people do try to show off with false facts, I don't think that it's our place to criticize them. Yes, they are being stupid, and I know that it must be fun to make them look bad, but it doesn't make us look any better to insult them. I firmly believe that this creates a bad image for all of us. Eventually, these people will move on to something else, and will annoy other people. The people who really care will be around in a few years, not those. They will be selling their DVD's at garage sales. Ignore them. But do keep posting their antics here. It's really quite fascinating. Just be polite.

[Iaurhirwen]

The other day I got into this conversation with a good friend of mine about the pronunciation of Sméagol. The're quite intelligent and having studied French for 2 years was in the process of saying to someone else that it is 3 sylablles and not 2.

Having heard that (I have this ability to detect anything LOTR related in an instant, anyone else have this uncanny ability? ) I promptly proceeded to tell them that they were mistaken and that it was only 2. They kept insisting that because there was an accent mark, there were 3 syllables.

After a few minutes of my trying to explane the basis of his name in terms of its Old English roots and her still insisting there were 3 syllables she finally said, "I shouldn't be arguing with you, you know more about LOTR than I do."

Not quite an A-A gripe, but it is quite funny when someone thinks they have the right answer when they don't. I think it's our job to correct those common things that we know people get wrong, like the whole Arwen/Glorfindel thing and the "love triangle" between Arwen/Aragorn/Eowyn.

I am always glad to meet people who are new to LOTR and help them when they are stuck. I don't profess to know everything about LOTR, it's quite impossible really, but for those of us who have read the books and understand them, we have the ability to help and should do so, without sounding and being snobbish, of course.

Sorry for my rant. I do that sometimes when I'm hyper.

[Snowdog]

I know probaly everyone has heard of this before, but one thing that really annoys me after the movies came out was that people, who watched every movie like 7 times, think they no absolutly everything about LOTR. for example, if a iask them who was Tom Bombadil, they would say "theres no Tom Bombadil in LOTR" it really annoys me!

I LOVE annoying amateurs who are movie-only fans . I use book code sayings like 'See at the Forsaken Inn', or 'We'll meet again at the house of Tom Bombadil', or 'Next year in Annúminas'. So instead of letting these PJ annoyances bug me, I turn the tables and annoy them and make them feel they are missing out.

[Arwen Evenstar]

I have friends who have never read the books and some that have. I have persuaded some to read the books just by talking to my other friends who have read them about stuff in the books that were left out of the movie. Did that make sense?

[Sapphire_Flame]

So instead of letting these PJ annoyances bug me, I turn the tables and annoy them and make them feel they are missing out.

Exactly! Just throw out enough Silm and UT references (or even *gasp* truly basic LotR book references) and they get confused beyond all get out. 'Tis highly amusing.

I've been on the site since September 2002, and I still think of myself as an "amatur", and shall until I've read Silm and UT as many times as I've read The Hobbit (about 35), and until I've read HoME at least five times.

What I think is thoroughly annoying is how people seem incapable of telling the difference between Sindarin and Tengwar. [super sarcasm mode]Gee, a spoken language and an alphabet that any language can be written in! Wow, that is so hard to figure out! [/super sarcasm mode] I just find this extraordinarily frustrating because of how often I must explain it to the same people over and over again.

Abedithon le,

~*~Aranel~*~

[Sauron_the_Abhorred]

My God, I have bad A. A.'s

Theres this one kid who knows I like Tolkien, and LotR, and he'll try to show off in front of me, but he's only seen the moveis, and he's awful with pronunciations. Heres a real example of what he'd say:

Hey *my name here*, do you like the part where Aragonen ( ) is all killing the big ents, and he, like falls of the cliff. And then he comes back to life, because his daughter(supposed to be Arwen) prays to God.

so I'll correct him, and he'll just stare at me, not knowing what I meant, and then he'll say: Dude, your wrong. So, anyway, how 'bout that part where Fraydo( ) and Sam get captured by that evil guy(faramir), and then the Ringollums(don't ask, but I think he means Ringwraiths) attack, and they are about to save Fraydo, but Sam turns evil for a while, and doesnt let them save Fraydo.

So I'll correct him again, and he'll say, Dude, you dont know crap 'bout Lord of the Rings, and I'll say, you dont know crap about it, and he starts crying, I swear to God, he starts crying-hes a HUGE baby.....AAAAAAAGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHH death to that guy......


Ok, thanks. Namarië

[Araréiel]

If you can't find a book and it's still published, go to Barnes & Noble and they will order it you you free of charge and you still don't even have to buy it when it arrives if you want a different edition (like if you wanted one not paperback or something).

I'm one of those people who has been into Toklien a relatively short period of time. The day the first DVD came out to be exact. I preordred it, picked it up, and watched it, not expecting much. But I was swept away and wondered how I went to song without it. And I though that Gandalf was dead and it upset me at the time. Ah, ignorance. Now people who know me will tell you it's part of who I am. So much that I feel wrong in myself if I don't have something on me that I'm wearing, be it the Evenstar, Nenya, the Ring itself.... And I'm antsy without a book, or at least the books on DVD if I'm driving, as I did today to go rescue my boyfriend when his car brokw down south of San Francisco.

Still, there are Newbies and then there are Dummies. The Newbies are the ones who are new and trying. They don't know a whole lot in any sense and they know that and are find learning. The Dummies are the ones who like to think they know it all, yet think Elves lived in the Shire. No, the insist Elves live in the Shire because Hobbits live in Mordor. And you can show them proof and they insist that the book is wrong. One of my idiot cousins actually did that-insisted the book was wrong and that Elves do, in fact, live in the Shire. *sigh* And she claims to be an expert. And, sadder still, she knows more about the books than any of her friends. When asked who wrote them, she guessed wrong. Then one of my aunts and her brother came to her defense saying that she read the books before me (sadly true, but she obviously didn't retain any information) and, therefore, knows more than I do. Uh-huh, right. Whatever. Who's Shelob? Who's Tom Bombadil? Apparently I made them up, according to them. Yet they claim the idiot is right and that I must have paid to have an altered copy made. Yeah. The one I was using is quarter-bound in leather and expensive as it was, and there's no way I could afford, or want to, have a wrong copy.

When I went to the midnight opening of RotK, a girl came dressed in a starlingly beautiful replica of Eowyn's green gown. Someone asked her who she was dressed as and she mentioned, "That blonde Elf chick." I broke in and asked if she meant Galadriel since she didn't wear green, though Eowyn wore a gown nearly identical to what she was wearing. And she said no, the Elf that the main guy liked. Um, Arwen wasn't blonde.... I tried telling her that, and she argued with me because she thought she knew all there was to know about LotR (so much she didn't know the names of Arwen or Aragorn). And probably felt dumb when the movie started and she was proven wrong. How much attention did she pay to the movies before it? Or did she only watch Orli? (I'll admit he's hot as hell, but I paid attention to more than just him!)

Yeah, Dummies who don't now character names, even main ones, and who don't know their butts from their elbows and try to act like know-it-alls are just downright irritating.

[Araréiel]

Vanima, I agree that people who've just seen the movies are fine. I started out seeing just one movie, and didn't even know who Frodo was when I did. But those people who've only seen the movies and claim to be experts on all things Tolkien are another story....

I'm a bit of a newbie when it comes to LotR, but I'm always willing to learn from people who genuinely know more than me...

I've read LotR once thouroughly, the hobbit twice, I've started the Silm and I have a book of maps of Middle Earth...I think I also have a book of illustrations from various Tolkein books, but that doesnt really count...

This is me! When I read LotR I cross reference everything. And I love to learn more from peope. Like the book calls Frodo Biblo's cousin, Bilbo called him his nephew. According to the family tree, Frodo is Biblo's second cousin twice removed (Biblo's father, Bungo is the cousin of Frodo's grandfather, Fosco). Biblo is Frodo's third cousin once removed (same thing). Funny how they are related the same way, but called different relations, but it's because the cousin-line starts with Biblo's father, but Frodo's [bold]great[/bold]grandfather. Still, is it a type that Frodo was called both Bilbo's cousin AND nephew? Now this is a semi-intelligent newbie question, better that the "Who is that short fat guy again? Gibblet?"

[yavanna II]

It's way more annoying when done by those damn teachers who haven't even read the book.

[Araréiel]

Oh, that's bad. If a teacher talks about the book and doesn't know what's what, is it any wonder why school kids tend to be so stupid these days? Not to offend the ones here who are among the exceptions! It takes brains to read and understand all the intricacies of Tolkien!

Please tell me you aren't talking about a literature teacher though! That would be inexcusable.

[Enorëiel]

AHEM!!! *points emphatically at self* Hello! Do I not count anymore? You're so mean, Enny. *pouts* (J/K. )

Sapphy, Sapphy, Sapphy *shakes head* can't you read? I said I THINK hence meaning I didn't think. Honestly, I thought you'd learned that by now...


Have you guys ever had problems with little children trying to show you up? Some kids know their stuff but some... I was telling someone who Frodo was and explained that he was the ringbearer. This little 10 year old girl goes 'No, Biblo had the ring.' I asked her if she'd read the books or seen the movie and she said no. Needless to say after that... I wasn't too worried. But come on! What are we teaching children nowadays?

[Araréiel]

I do have to defend a 10-year-old here. LotR is so involved it is above many 10-year-olds. Not all, but most. The Hobbit is much more in line with with what a child that age could easily read. So she was right as well in a way. While Frodo was the ring BEARER, Biblo did have the ring-for a while anyway. I believe in cutting slack on kids with this.

[yavanna II]

Originally Posted by Araréiel

Oh, that's bad. If a teacher talks about the book and doesn't know what's what, is it any wonder why school kids tend to be so stupid these days? Not to offend the ones here who are among the exceptions! It takes brains to read and understand all the intricacies of Tolkien!

Please tell me you aren't talking about a literature teacher though! That would be inexcusable.

Hey. IT HAS BEEN MY LITERATURE TEACHER who doesn't read the book, and the one who has the guts to tell me that I JUST DIDN'T UNDERSTAND THE MOVIE! It's an outrage!

but my Trigonometry teacher understands me... he is an LOTR geek... he's gay, and loves legolas[ew ew ew ew]