The Great Eagle Mystery

[Mister Underhill]

Downers aren't the only ones to ponder the Great Eagle Mystery, as this dramatization (7MB video) shows.

[Thinlómien]

Originally Posted by Mister Underhill

Downers aren't the only ones to ponder the Great Eagle Mystery, as this dramatization (7MB video) shows.

That link doesn't work for me. Are you sure you have the correct address or do I just have problems with my computer?

[Mister Underhill]

D'oh! I of all people should know to check my links when I post. The busted one above is now fixed. Thanks for the heads-up, Thin.

[Thinlómien]

Originally Posted by Mister Underhill

D'oh! I of all people should know to check my links when I post. The busted one above is now fixed. Thanks for the heads-up, Thin.

You're welcome.
I checked it; it was funny

[Bergil]

someone once hypothesised that the animal minds of the eagles would fall easily to the lure of the ring, and they knew it. this seems very beleivable.

[obloquy]

What would an animal do with the Ring?

[Boromir88]

The Eagles aren't a Middle-earth taxi service and would never agree to such a thing. The times that the Eagles have helped out they only agree to take their passengers so far. In The Hobbit and when Gwaihir rescues Gandalf on Orthanc, both times the Eagles only took their riders so far. They aren't powered by Engergizer batteries and do get tired.

[Raynor]

They aren't powered by Engergizer batteries and do get tired.

Yet in The field of Cormallen, Gwaihir tells Gandalf:

- I would bear you, answered Gwaihir, whither you will, even were you made of stone.

Admitedly, he is the mightiest of Thorondor's descendants, but still - one eagle who _could_ be up to it.

Perhaps the Eagles did not aid the Fellowship in their quest to destroy the ring by simply flying them to Mordor because the plight of the ring was for the free peoples of Middle Earth to accomplish. The Eagles, although mortal, were considered the messengers and servants of Manwe and were allowed to aid the peoples of Middle Earth in times of need, but maybe not with this specific quest....who knows.

I believe they could make the trip, as Eagles did nest in the highest peaks of the Misty Mountains in the third age, and could fly great distances and easily carry a man. However I agree that the clouds of ash and the summoned elements of weather would be a deterrent to them. But I do think a squad of Eagles would easily handle the Nazgul and their flying steeds. After all, the Eagles do have a solid history of combat and taking care of business. Remember, these were the creatures that fought and destroyed Ancalagon and his brood in the War of Wrath. Even if the Eagles of the Third Age were one-third the size of their kin from the First Age, they would still have a wingspan of roughly 50 feet along with talons, beaks, brains, and the ability to fight as a team in battle. My money would be on the Eagles of Manwe over the slow-witted Nazgul-gang any day.

[Gwaihir the Windlord]

Welcome to our humble Tolkien-obsessed universe, Friend of Fingon. I hope you find your stay here, as I'm sure we'll find your posts, enjoyable.

Slow-witted? Well, I don't think so [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]. TheNazgul would have been formiddable aerial fighters; however, your pointing-out of the Eagle's involvement in the War of Wrath does cast some doubt into the theory that the Nazgul would have been able to beat them.

It raises another issue, as well. Along with your statement:

because the plight of the ring was for the free peoples of Middle Earth to accomplish. The Eagles, although mortal, were considered the messengers and servants of Manwe...

. In the War of Wrath, which was for the salvation of the Free Peoples of Middle-Earth, the Eagles played a significant part. The Valar certainly had a part in this part of Middle-Earthian history; admittedly this situation was rather different, then.

But there are also the Istari, without whom the Free Peoples of Middle-Earth would also have been destroyed. They too were a direct intercession on the part of the Valar, so as you can see, the War of the Ring was not entirely fought only by people of Middle-Earth. The Eagles themselves had a part in the War of the Ring as well; there was first the rescue of Thorin and Co (most important), and then the Battle of Five Armies, and along with that there was Gwaihir's rescue of Gandalf from Orthanc -- absolutely vital -- and from Zirak-Zigil, equally vital. Yes... so as you can see the Valar, even through the Eagles, which are the subject of our discussion here, did not in fact leave the War of the Ring up to the peoples of Middle-Earth at all.

I should have thought that an Eagle attack on Mordor, while a seemingly more forthright act than those stated above, could have been counted to fall under this permissable Valarin involvement.

[img]smilies/smile.gif[/img] Having said this, it is true that a glorious Eagle attack would have almost totally taken away from the Gondorin/Human/Elvish fighting contribution to the victory of the War of the Ring. Aragorn would not have proved himself, and neither would Gondor have; who knows? perhaps Gondor would have gone soft after this, a land become sheltered, with a protected king. At any rate, the fact that Aragorn and Gondor/Rohan had to fight, in battle, for their salvation is important.

Perhaps this particular element of the War of the Ring was better left up to Middle-Earthians, then. Hmmm... [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img] still, the fact remains that it would be Frodo who would have to throw the ring into the fire in the end. That he was transported there by the Eagles can, perhaps, in this case be said to play a similar role to that of Gwaihir in rescuing Gandalf.

-----
Having worked myself up to this point in a somewhat haphazard fashion, I will conclude by reaffirming by belief that the Eagles, while undoubtedly terrible fighters, would not have carried such a mission as this through. The chance that they would be 'feared' out of the sky is a distinct one, as well as the possibility of their being dismayed and quenched by Sauron's massive emanating psionic power (there would have been no greater power there to shield them from this, and they could not have escaped the range of Sauron's Eye were they to execute this mission). There is more, though.

It is interesting to note that Gwaihir, reported to have been in the area at the time of the Battle of the Pellenor, did not lead any attack on the Nazgul themselves in this battle; neither could they attack the Nazgul in the battle before the Gates, a battle in which they were definitely there in numbers. It may well be that the feat was beyond them, you know.

Finally, the really clinching reason for me is the Nazgulian ability to 'sniff' out the Ring's whereabouts, especially within Mordor itself I should think. As I have pointed out, it is likely that they would know exactly which Eagle (i.e. the one that was carrying Frodo) to go for. The power of all nine of them at once, supported by the nearby Sauron, would have scattered Eagles right and left in their charge; and whichever unfortunate Eagle happened to be carrying Frodo would be mercilessly beaten out of the sky and pillaged for his Ringbearer and Ring. The other Eagles wouldn't matter. The Nazgul would have, surgically almost, removed the Ring from the Eagle pack with mightful ease -- and then of course it would have failed.

Rather a long ramble, and done hastily as well... it should be understandable [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]. Anyway, welcome again. I hope it's of some use.

[ August 27, 2003: Message edited by: Gwaihir the Windlord ]

[Nilpaurion Felagund]

Very extensive, Master Eagle!

If Gondolin could be protected by immense siege weapons, Sauron, who no doubt knows of the existense of eagles, could have built giant machines for shooting things out of the air. Maybe a precursor of the Patriot missile, don't you think?

And, the destruction of the Ring doesn't mean that the war is over.

[Insert quotes here, but my book is missing]

Sure, they could have ended Sauron forever(assuming they successfully do it), but what about the Southrons? The Easterlings? The Corsairs seething for revenge? Maybe many would slink away, seeing the fall of Sauron, but many, who only depended on Sauron as a sort of united banner, would still have laid waste to the rejoicing Gondorians! C'mon - Sauron destroyed? The people of Gondor would flip over in joy, and won't realise their mistake until it is too late!

[willkill4food]

I wonder what delusion of grandure an eagle would have (ie Sams changing Mordor into a giant garden), maybe the entire land full of thousands and thousands of sheep and horse, no one in the world would know how to use a bow and arrow, and of course no annoying wizards to have to rescue...

I doubt any eagle would of accepted the journey, just as maybe other powerful beings in ME did, the eagles really seem to show up just for rescues, they dont get the people into the mess, they get them out of it...

-willkill