Are You Writing Serious Fantasy? II

[Sirithheruwen]

I know this sounds really cheesey, but LOTR is what first fantasy book that made me say,"hey! I think I want to write fantasy!" There have been many more since, but LOTR sticks with me as the first one. I'm still working out the plot of a story right now, but I'm thinking it will be pretty good. The problem for me is starting the book!
I've always kinda wanted to write, and this has enhanced my decision. I can't wait to get started. [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]

[littlemanpoet]

Regarding inspiration: I've had my share of troubles in the past, but I got a few helpful pointers from my local writer's group, as well as a certain online writer's group I joined.

1. Look for conflict. Conflict drives plot.

2. Check for implications. For example, do you have a magic item or artefact? What does it do? Who wants it? Who has it now? What might that other person who wants it do in order to get it? How did something your main character did, affect your other characters? Take a look at each one to see what cause and effect stuff is going on.

3. Ask all of your primary and secondary characters what they're up to while the plot you've already figured out is going on. This is a source of unending plot twists for me. It also helps me fill out my minor characters, and don't you know that one or more of them become major characters that are sometimes even more interesting than the original protags.

That's usually enough to get whole new chapters written for me.

[Imladris]

Wow! Littlemanpoet, that last post about inspiration was excellent! I do have one question thought, what do you mean by conflict? How does conflict drive the plot? I know stupid question...

[littlemanpoet]

What do you mean by conflict? How does conflict drive a plot?

Not stupid at all, Imladris! [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]

Conflict in a story, as well as in real life, is when two different people do things, or want things, that both can't do or want at the same time. That was too confusing to be worth it. I'll try again, by means of examples.

My two primary protagonists are step-brothers. #1 had his Dad, #2 had his Mom and Mom and Dad got married. #2 and Dad never really developed much of a relationship. #1 and Mom were constantly at war because Mom was always trying to force #1 to take #2 along with him everywhere, which #1 couldn't stand. So there you have conflict between #1 and Mom, between #1 and #2, and between #2 and Dad. That doesn't sound much like fantasy, but it is background.

My magical Society has three factions; the light faction is trying to hold power and the dark faction is trying to take it away. The middle faction is trying to transcend the whole power play thing and get on with practicing the Art.

In my faerie world, it's light versus dark.

My #1 protag is taken to my faerie world by a lady faerie. Thing is, he's engaged. He's not romantically interested in the faerie lady, but #1 looks and acts just like the faerie lady's lost lover. #1 has to choose between the faerie world and his fianceé. There's conflict.

How do these people's desires conflict with each other? Throw a magic sword in the midst of the Society and the power struggle intensifies around the new item.

And so on. I hope that helps. If I'm still being unclear, let me know and I'll try again.

[Lhundulinwen]

Well, I enjoy every minute that I write. I'm deep into chapter two, and I know I'll need to do some serious rewriting. But I *love* to write. In between high school, helping my parents farm, keeping up with my friends, (one of which I probably won't see for several months to a year, so I'm trying to spend a lot of time with her), I write every minute I can.
I write characters and stories because I want to; not because I think I'll make a six figure book deal. I have wrote several short stories, short shorts, and a pretty large amount of poetry. Some of which has won some awards and have appeared in a few anthologies.
I think to have a really good story, you need large conflicts (eg. a quest, getting the girl/guy) and smaller conflicts (getting to work on time, not killing fellow people on quest with you). All of these elements must be tied together in a conclusive ending.
I had read Narnia and some other really obscure fantasy books, along with myths and legends before I read LOTR. So, I was writing before LOTR, but after LOTR, my writing had a more epic and grand style to it. I am inspired largely of my own fears: heights, the dark ( I live in the middle of nowhere-woods after dark, wolves, scary!!), the unknown in general. I take these fears and push them to the limit. I model some of my characters off of one or two traits from each of my friends. Can be quite interesting.
Right now my novel is not ready to see the light of day, but when I get done with the first draft, and am aprox. half way through the second re-write, a few (VERY few!!) choice people will get to have a peek. My good friend, who happens to be an English teacher, and another fellow writer, will all have a first row seat to be my cheerleaders and to catch my mistakes. After all, what are friends for?

[Kitanna]

How do you decide to write fantasy? I don't think you really decide it just kind of comes to you and you go with it. Atleast that's how it worked for me. I love to write fantasy because you don't have to stick to facts like historical fiction, you can make up the facts as you go. Not to mention it's kind of a release from boring every day life.

I'm in the middle of writing a series, but not to get it published, but just because it's fun to write. I had always been writing some form of fantasy, but not until I read LOTR did it take on a greater purpose (good vs.evil, stuff like that). So my writing has a lot of parells to LOTR. But hey I figure I'm not hurting anyone because I'm not publishing it.

I figure you can't really write a fantasy nowadays without having something Tolkien in it. Not always the case, but when you think about it most fantasy books can and are compared to his.

[Kransha]

My, my, this thread has been quite a while in it's existence, and yet I never noticed its presence on this forum.

On a first note, to discuss Tolkeinion influence. I cannot, by right's say that I was inspired per se by Prof. T., but I have leeched my share from his work. I took a lot to develope my own more amateur tales, including the varying realm of character, plot, and miscellaneous developement for most available genres out there. It wasn't hard to borrow a lot, in fact I found myself unable to help it. I have one friend who has never read Tolkein, and seems to have written a slightly mediocre story that is exactly like it, which he says is all foolishness (an issue I must discuss with him at length in the future).

Something I took from the Tolkein archives was a fuller branching system. Since I find that, even though stories told from a solitary first person point of view are still intriguing, going more prominently in depth into a single character, it is best for my more complex storyline to go with 'tree branches' in both plot and character. It is, in all seriousness, the easiest way to make a third person POV more 'grabbing' to both reader and writer, developed or underdeveloped. If a story's plot splits into multiple plots, still centered around a focal point, it works better for more diverse stories. Tolkein's different books within books, focused on the different aspects of each journey, was what did initially inspire me as far as that section of the story. I had to split my story into sections, each storyline rotating almost per chapter to avoid to much resemblance to Tolkein on a whole. Otherwise, I still have plenty of things I've stolen *nervous cackling beneath breath*.

I have two stories in the works that can be classified as fantasy.

Story A would be slightly more fantastical, but with a real root and base. You could say I cheapened the story a little by setting it in an actual era of Earth, rather than formulating a legendarium for the tale. It is set, as best as I could tell for the storyline, in the 16th Century of our world, and has enough twists to knock it into proverbial fantasticity (is that even a word I wonder? As you can see, my writing's prime limitation is the pomposity of my vocabulary, everywhere). Using the legendarium already created by the people of that era, based on religion, belief, superstition flowing around at the time. It works in context, since said context is realistic, but fantastic with the superimposing of fantasy (of that time period) on that period's reality, merging history with the mythos of the past, present, and some futuristic dabblings.

There are many characters in mine, which is genre-less on technicality, but many share generic traits with stereotypes just because the obviousness of their personas is needed, they are meant to be translucent, but others borrow more complex traits from Tolkein legendarium characters and characters from other mythos. There are, as I said, many. Some of them have intertwined pasts, but those who are symbolically related do not actually meet until much later in the story, for developement puposes. I found it more interesting, and, dare I say it, funner to slowly juxtapose the characters who shared the least (both in past history and personality) beside each other on the quest I have them all seeking, though they don't know their counterparts are seeking the same thing they do. The tale is not about intrigue, so I don't dwell on mytery, but I take pride in my twisting plot turns and suspense, so I have utilized that aspect to develope character, just as Tolkein did (Namely as inspired by the chapter from Fellowship involving the Barrow-Wights, a more horrific upheaval from Shire's peace that developed Frodo suprisingly as a character). They all come together at the end, not necessarily at allies, but together all the same, many battling as they do so, thus the dubbing of my story as more of action piece, but tampered with all the philosophy I could muster.

Story B and more on A (character) when I have some time. Please comment, for I am eager for some form of creative criticism. I know I didn't supply much information, but recommendations on the whole plot-branching and practical archive of characters would be much appreciated. Also, more on my in detail responses to the other questions posed by this thread's first post forthwith....too...sleepy...

[Nurumaiel]

Well, I'll just say that you might want to try to avoid using any modern religions unless you are writing about the past history of our world (which I can tell you are probably not).

And here's where the problem lies... in short, it's because I believe the Catholic Faith to be the Faith. I don't want to make up a religion that can't be better. It's because I'm a Catholic that I don't want them to be non-Catholics... it's horribly difficult to explain. I've decided the best thing to do would be just to leave it rather vague and never actually say one way or another, but let their actions and words give the readers a little idea of what they might be. Besides, I don't want to go too far on this subject, considering not everyone on the 'Downs are Catholics.

Lhundulinwen mentioned very briefly drafts in her post, which brings me to ask a question to you all. How do you do second drafts? In all my past works I've only had first drafts. I'm the type of person who is inspired, writes it out, and then loves it too much to change it in anyway, regardless of whether it would be made better or not. I feel more in that case like my story is a well-rehearsed play rather than something actually happening. Aside from that, I also simply do not know how to do a second and third (and however many more one wants) draft... if anyone could give any simple guidelines and suggestions I would be most grateful. Most books around the house tell 'how to write a novel' and never say anything about numerous drafts... There, I've admitted one of my faults in writing.

[mark12_30]

Nuru,

I felt the same as you, til I had people I really, really respected review my work. When lindil questioned my use of a dragon, for instance, and suggested a troll would make more sense, I knew I had believability issues. And I didn't want to give up the dragon! So-- I had to lay a lot more groundwork, and show that the dragon had been around, before he showed up and wreaked his havoc. I had to make the presence of the dragon plausible.

Without lindil's advice I wouldn't have made those changes. But with lindil's changes it is a much better story.

Now, it doesn't work *at all* with someone you don't respect. (Don't bother.)

So-- my advice would be, put a copy of your original story in a very safe place. Then make another copy and hand it to someone you really respect who has a Big Red Pen-- littlemanpoet, at FWW, has a large team of people with Big Red Pens-- and watch them wreak havoc with it. It's a little horrifying-- because you love it so-- and that's why I say put a copy in a safe place so you always have the original.

lmp is on chapter 18 of The Fairy Wife. He's bled all over it! AAAUGH!!! But it is all good. When he is all done, I will "publish" a second edition (the first edtion will not completely disappear.) And it will be much more believable, more bulletproof, tighter, more believable.

Beievability is key to enchantment, which is key to eucatastrophe. So believability is important-- to me, to the reader.

How's that for a ramble? (...join FWW...)

[Imladris]

Nuru, on religion, this is my advice: Keep it vague, don't name the religion as that will probably be a turn off. I don't know much about the Catholic religion, but keep their customs in the story and if a Catholic comes upon your story, he can mentally smile as he recognizes them. And if one isn't a Catholic, one can look at the story and appreciate how noble, etc, the characters are.

As for second drafts, I read a rule once: Second draft = first draft minus ten percent . I've found that this is extremely easy to do and the best part is that you don't even loose a bunch of the core important stuff or the stuff that you've come to love. After you do your own editing of the ten percent, then have an editor read it and then you'll cut off even more fat from the flavourful meat.

Also, before any editing takes place, put the manuscript in a drawer and just let it rest for a few weeks. That way it will be fresh and you can easily see parts that won't flow, etc.

[Lhundulinwen]

I too have never finished a larger work. Of course, I had never thrown myself in heart and soul into a project before now, except a few wonderful poems. I knew how to do a magnificent poem; find a strong emotion, memory or idea and open my mind and let my fingers type or write whatever came out. Editing comes so much later. Editing too soon always sucked the soul out of my poems.

Now I understand how to do larger works also. Its the same process except a lot longer, at least for me. Within the first pages five pages of my quietly growing novel, I got stuck. I had no idea how to move the plot along. I never ouline, (it makes my projects all seem so predictable), so I was staring at a roadblock. I was already in love with my characters, so I couldn't just throw them away.

I set the whole thing aside for about two weeks. I was outside running, (after a cow no less. Ah, the joys of agriculture) and it hit me. I knew who, where, what and when. It all fell into place. I learned a lot about my characters in that flash. A hidden past, a hidden talent, a few new gifts... it really was magic.

Which is why I LOVE to write. I don't understand where the inspiration comes from in most of my projects. It is really hard just to let yourself go, and not listen to your inner critic, but when you do, it is such a wonderful feeling. Its like dreaming while being conscious, directing your own personal movie or floating above the story you are creating. Sure, most of what you write will be edited out, but for me, this is the only way to get the meat of the story and those little details we all love in our stories.

[Eowyn Skywalker]

I was already in love with my characters, so I couldn't just throw them away.

I set the whole thing aside for about two weeks. I was outside running, (after a cow no less. Ah, the joys of agriculture) and it hit me. I knew who, where, what and when. It all fell into place. I learned a lot about my characters in that flash. A hidden past, a hidden talent, a few new gifts... it really was magic.

Indeed, I truly know what you mean. I too have fallen into ruts with characters that I love, and would never throw away, they have too much to them, too much work put into their past. Aand then suddenly it came to me. I know my character for who THEY are, and not the people that they are based on. Suddenly, they had a past, and a future.

A hidden past began to grow up, and suddenly there was such a difference... suddenly the characters had something to them. A girl from earlier, suddenly she was known as the heir to the throne cougharagroncough. Suddenly, a half-elf became known to who he really was... They fell into place. An Agent... suddenly he was known as the Emperor, explaining sooo much of the plot. It was like magic, as suddenly the worlds began to show themselves, and create an actual world to them. And all it took was setting the story aside for a while... now I'm rewriting it, and the characters actually are characters. I'm writting a sequel for the story that explains so much of the plot.

I have never finished half my stories... to be exact, I have two finished ones... not to count my short short stories. But these were just fanfictions. I have yet to complete my fiction based tales, and I will too! When characters grow so easily, they cannot be easily lost again. Especially when they are not Mary-Sues, but actual people.

All characters have something to them, it just takes time for them to show through. But someday they will, so never give up on them. I'm glad that I never trashed mine... they are actually going somewhere... as soon as I got the idea for magic based technology, I knew I had something, and had to rewrite so much of it, but the work is worth it... this story has a chance at survival.

-Eowyn Skywalker

[Sirithheruwen]

Well, I started. Last night to be exact.

I was listening to the main theme for Requiem for a Dream when it came to me: the death scene of one of my characters I had been planning for the end of the book. Who knows if it'll even end like that, bu tit seemed a good start. If you happen to be listening to it at the exact same time you are reading this, you will realize it choreographs perfectly with the music. I'm so proud!

Well, I'm off to write!
Happy Writing!

[Lhundulinwen]

Congratulations Sirithheruwen! Starting can be really hard sometimes, even when you know basically where the story is going! Does anyone have a ritual or something they do especially when starting a project? I read about how one author always starts a new novel on January 8th every year. And how about music? I almost allways have some type of music going in the background. (Yes, I confess. It generally is FOTR or ROTK soundtrack, but hey they are really good music.)

[Saraphim]

Almost all of my characters are based, at least loosly, on people I know. The main group of people in my story is based on my group of friends. They may not look the same, or indeed be the same gender, but there they are.

It came to me as I was watching one of my idiot friends light his shoelaces on fire, and another idiot friend spray his Cologne onto the said shoe today.

No, not that I need new friends. That the idiotic, yet lovable characters in my story are based on the idiots I know and love myself.

An odd tale, I know.

[Imladris]

Thank you for clarifying that! I wonder if I don't have enough conflict in one of my stories. I mean, there is the good vs bad, but I wonder if there is not enough between the central characters. One has a lot of inner conflict within herself. That's hard to write. [img]smilies/rolleyes.gif[/img]

Thank you so much!!!!

[purplefluffychainsaw]

Hmmm... I guess I'd better tell you what my books are like.
I'm working on a seven part series (Which is definatly NOT about a boy at his magical school [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img] God, its taking me ages to do! I was writing a chapter a week, but my computer broke, and even since I got it back havn't got back into that rotine. I've been working on the first book since about easter and I'm not even a sith of the way through! I don't know where I got the idea, I just thought, right. I'm going to write a book and its going to have a mage in it and a cat and... And I worked it out from there!

How did you decide that you wanted to write fantasy? What kind do you write?

Has Tolkien influenced your writing? If so, how?

I don't think I ever did decide. I've been writing fantasy since I could. Probably becuase I'm autistic so I find it hard to express feelings, whenever I got really annoyed or something like that I would write a short story with the chacter feeling like I was at the time. They were always fantasy. Probably because its really the only genre I've ever been interested in. The first book I read was a book of myths (I went from not reading at all to reading books years above my age in a half term [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]

I write any books that come into my head. Thats normally fantasy but I think I've done a few sci-fi and comedy ones. But the comedy ones were based on fantasy so...

Tolkien has influnced my writing in so many ways. All the writers I've ever read have (Way to many to list!) I think I valued Tolkiens way of writing becuase its very similar to my own and becuase he used myths and things for his backrounds. The first time I read LotR I could see the edges of myths that I had read over and over again creaping in. I loved his elves. Thats what shows must in my writing. I never liked the faries of fariy tales. If there was ever a fariy party I would always be the one without wands and wings but with a bow; becuase these were the elves I loved and beleived in.

What kind do you write? (Transition or Immersion)

I don't acctually know. Mines based in a time that isn't stated. It has all the modern technology but could easily be in the future. Basically it's set on the Earth which is split into three worlds: the World that Is (A magical world), the Worlds Wood (a place that separates the other two), and the World. The World is the one we're in now.

how do you make your protagonist (hero) somebody your reader can relate to, or like, or at least sympathize with?

I don't think I have tried. I just split myself into six, but one part in each of the main charaters and then the seventh is me.

[Elennar Starfire]

I just combined two of the story ideas I have into one, and now I'm not sure if it's transition or immersion. My main character lives in our world, but also belongs to my fantasy world, though she doesn't know it yet.

how do you make your protagonist (hero) somebody your reader can relate to, or like, or at least sympathize with?

I just make them someone I can relate to/sympathize with. People are more alike than you might think, so if you can relate to a character, there's a good chance other people will too.

[littlemanpoet]

I've been reading a book about writing fiction, by Orson Scott Card, the author of the Ender's Game and Alvin Maker series. The book's title is Characters & Viewpoint. The subtitle is: How to invent, construct, and animate vivid, credible characters and choose the best eyes through which to view the events of your short story or novel.

Simply put, I wish I had read this book fifteen years ago. It was published fifteen years ago.

It is crucial to my understanding of what I'm doing as a writer, whether I want to get published, or because I just love writing and want to make my story the best I can.

Card uses The Lord of the Rings as an example for many of his points. So there's the necessary tie in. [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img]

Just to nail this down with some usefulness to you by way of example: the transition versus immersion versus lizardzone categories are of limited use because they don't really help you know how to write better. Card supplies four categories of fiction that really help you know how to write better. It's MICE. That's a handy acronym for:

M - milieu
I - idea
C - character
E - Event

Every story has one thread that holds the story that you're weaving together, and it's one of the four I've listed above.

LOTR is the best example of Milieu. You love the place! You want to go to Middle Earth. The story is about Middle Earth, and the characters and events and ideas that are there, but the thread is the Milieu.

Detective and Caper fiction (think the movie Bandits are examples of Idea fiction. Some problem (like a murder) occurs at the beginning, or a feat (like a bank robbery) is planned at the beginning, and the story is done when the murder is solved or the bank is successfully robbed and you celebrate with the robbers for pulling it off and getting away with it. (We were all sympathetic and cheered Bruce Willis, Billy Bob Thornton, and Cate Blanchett, did we not?)

Character is the story in which the character herself is the thread, and she is less than she needs to become, and by the end of the book you see how she has become what she needed to. This is typical modern fiction.

Event fiction is the classic kind. Something bad happens, or something bad always happens, and the protagonist of the story is the hero who must set things right, and get the girl while he's at it, and become king at the end, to boot. The modern romance is a good example of this story.

So now for the question: Which of the four MICE categories is the main thread tying together the story you're writing?

Whichever it is, it will help you to know how to START your story and how to END it.

If you want to know more details about this, borrow Card's book from the local library. Better yet, if you're a really serious writer, or want to be, buy it. I'm going to.

By the way, my story is Milieu. And now to go back and rewrite. [img]smilies/eek.gif[/img]

LMP

[OddEvenstar]

Writing is one of the most important parts of my life. Like many of you, I aspire to become at least half the author Tolkien was. As for fantasy, I entered a sci-fi/fantasy writing contest several years ago...and failed miserably. I didn't really expect to win anything; it was a horrible story! It was rather the pixie-faerie type thing, but hey, I was in 3rd Grade! Funny how I haven't thought about writing another fantasy until now...I'm more into realistic fiction writing, and won a couple of awards that way. I don't have any illusions of actual potential in the way of fantasy, but Tolkien has certainly given me a lot to think about. Besides, I'm 13, I've got a long way to go!

[Sirithheruwen]

Okay, I have just finished reading the old AYWSF thread (all 22 pages! It took me 2 weeks!) and I have decided to resurrect this one, basicly for moral support and to see some new writers here!

I briefly posted on this thread when I first came to the Barrowdowns, but it hardly had anything to do with writing. At the moment, I am writing a fantasy story that could possibly become a duology (phrase coined by LMP. It means "two books") or even a trilogy. I havn't actually started the writing process yet, but I'm very far into the planning stage. I have my protagonists: 4 girls. (This will lead to a question I will post later in this post.) I have maps, a language, and most of the plot sorted out in my head.

The world is called Ola, and it is like one gigantic forest. In this I basicly thought, what would my dream world look like. My immeadiate answer was trees.

I will also address my language, since it has been commented on many times before (not mine, but language in general on this thread.) It is called Isca-augay, which translates directly into "scribe-language". It is only used mainly in old scrolls and ceremonies. Now, I'm no linguist. I, in fact, only speak 2 languages: English and Pig Latin. ( ) However, I drew from those strengths. My language is mostly a spoof on pig-latin. Here is my complicated process:
1) I turn the English word into Pig Latin.
2) I add and/or remove letters depending on the part of speech of word.
FOR EXAMPLE:
House would translate distantly to Ohay. Similar, yet distant enough to be unrecognizable.

I have written many other things. I have written a few short stories, but I mostly write poetry. One short story I'm very fond, not to mention proud, of is "The Spire of Hope." I wrote it for a Reading assignment, and I think it is the best thing I have written to date. It is uneditted, yet I shan't get around to editing it for a long while. However, it is available on fictionpress.net. I'm under the pen name of Blissfully Unaware, if you want to check me out. You can also find many of my poems there.

Okay, here are my questions:

1) How do you overcome gender barriers? For example: my 4 protags are female, being as I'm female. My problem? I don't know how to write a male character. I've tried, and I've failed miserably. Any advice?

Okay, my mind has completely gone blank, and with this blankness has gone my questions. Oh well.

I await your replies!

[Olorin_TLA]

Ah, genders...;)...always tricky for peopleto know if a woman/man woulds actually act as they've written it I guess. :) It's nice to hear all your progtags are women: I ugess it's ok that most of mine are men (there are women in abundence in non-main roles, or "everyperson/background roles", just not so manym as main characters) it's simply that I'm a man, and I tend to think of my characters are being somewhat like me, so a lotendup male. :)
Well, what do you mean by failed? Could you give an example of you writing a male charatcer (if you can write female characters I'm sure you can write male ones)? I mean all human beings are varied, so it'd be foolish for anyone to think of them in terms of anything but biology as being easilly sorted into 2 groups (and even then...), so there's a lot of freedom in your characterisation. Make sure you don't go for any stereotypes, unless the charatcer's intended to be one. Well, I can't really think of any tips to give unless you could post or PM an example of your writing of a male character; who knows, maybe they're fine after all?

As for me, to answer the thread-starter, yep, I write serious fantasy. I've been influenced first by "Fanstasy" in general, which I found before Tolkien. It's been in my life for ages, like the air I breathe...I can't place it exactly with titles or dates, but it's always been there. Some clear examples would be some childnres books with dragons and wizards (non-Tolkien inspired It would seem), Enid Blyton, and then post-Tolkien stuff like Fighting Fantasy RPG novels, other Unplacable Fantasy &...Warhammer. But there were mnay earlier ones... Hell, even Rupert had a wizard (and talking bears!) It's basically like asking Homer whether he was inspired by Greeks myths! All quite Tolkien & D&D inspired. Then I found Tolkien at 11 years old. But I do think Tolkien has had an even stronger influence over time...his take on magic, for instance. Now my plots are my own, except I do have a dragon-slaying, because I love them :) , and I do have "Dark Lord"-syndrome. HOWEVER: I don't think that's from Tolkien. You see, in books (and RPGs and other plot-driven games) I've never been much moved by a protagonist's desire for gold or fame etc. What I want is to do some good. Whether it be an adventurer in an RPG aving some forsaken prisoners on a hellish island, or the huge (yet small) scale of the War of the Ring and Frodo's sacrifices to save the world, I want the plot to mean something, to not just be some guy out to get glory. And so if it happens on a large scale, you've gotot be up against some great deadly force. And mortal overlords just aren't the same, imho, for the most part. They're not threatning enough, for they are in the end subject to the same weaknesses as everyone else. But a Power that would be a terror to go up against is one way of achieving the kind of...meaningful...chararcters I like. Just one way.
Now I'm trying to introduce some new ideas in without upsetting the world of my stories. I'm aware that a lot of what I have has been influenced to varying degrees - hell, the whole fantasy package with its deities, magic, Elves,medieval-like era, etc, is basically a "template", and once used as a starting point, is nearly impossible to remove from your works it features in! I'm aware that had Tolkien come along today, I wouldnot have used ideas so, but only did so becuase even before I was aware of him those things were so widespread as to seem common-thread ideas, like space-ships and aliens in sci-fi (yeah, I know loads of sci-fi has neither, you know what I mean).
But I'm also aware that in the end it's plot, not setting, that matters. And with that, I'm satisfied. :) Now I just need to twiddle the 'metaphysics'...urgh, headaches. (I'm like the inquisitve reader to myself - always checking if there are situations where so-and-so should or could have done this, or why didn't they simply do this-and-that, etc. :) )

Phew, it's been really nice to get this out. :)

I'm just about to sleep, but I'll try to read your short story. :)

[Sirithheruwen]

Regarding male characters, you asked for an example. I don't have one on hand, since I scrapped most of them, but they just seem really "flat" or two-dimensional. I don't know reallly how my characters would act in a certain situation, or what they would say, or anything! It's very frustrating! Unless maybe I wrote a gay character...hmmm...it would probably be a little harder, but it could get interesting!

And mortal overlords just aren't the same, imho, for the most part. They're not threatning enough, for they are in the end subject to the same weaknesses as everyone else.

What about "Wizard of Oz" type of characters? Where you think they are all great and (possibly) immortal and all-powerful, but they're really just mortals taking up that guise? I think those characters are very interesting and add for a good plot twist at the end. Your thoughts?

Happy Writing!

[Aiwendil]

Sirithheruwen wrote:

I will also address my language, since it has been commented on many times before (not mine, but language in general on this thread.) It is called Isca-augay, which translates directly into "scribe-language". It is only used mainly in old scrolls and ceremonies. Now, I'm no linguist.

My advice is that unless you are a linguist, or a very knowledgeable amateur, you avoid making fictional languages a critical component of the story. Tolkien was onto something with his idea that a world must be thoroughly self-consistent (which includes the evolution of languages) to be believable - even if the reader doesn't notice it.

Of course, I'm not saying you shouldn't use fictional languages at all. I'd just avoid overusing them.

1) How do you overcome gender barriers? For example: my 4 protags are female, being as I'm female. My problem? I don't know how to write a male character. I've tried, and I've failed miserably. Any advice?

Males and females aren't really fundamentally that different. I think you can probably write male characters better than you realize. You may be over-analyzing your own writing.

On the other hand, I'm fairly miserable at writing fiction, so maybe you shouldn't give my advice too much credence.

I think I write serious Fantasy, Tolkien has influenced me.

In 7th grade, the first LOTR movie was released, I was really captured by the way he thought. So I read the books...and I decided that I wanted to try and be just as good as he was, to write something people would love.

I've been working on it for...going on...four years now. It's been really hard.

I think I write serious fantasy because I have created my own worlds, races, languages, but they are complex yet easy to understand

I'm taking my time, I hope it goes well...best of skill.

-Tumsy

[TheBladeThatWasBroken]

Originally Posted by Morquesse

How did you decide that you wanted to write fantasy? What kind do you write?

Has Tolkien influenced your writing? If so, how?

1. I used to write fanfictions for anime and stuff... it was fun when I first began writing, but as I wrote, the feeling of satisfactory lessened everytime I recall that I didn't create the world that my fanfictions took place in. And after reading Professor Tolkien's works, I've decided that I'm going to write in my own world as well... and that's how I began

2. I think Professor Tolkien has influenced, however little, every fantasy writers' writings... after all, you could call him the Father of Fantasy Fiction.

My problems are that I'm extremely lazy, and I just wish that my stories will come out on paper on their own exactly the way that I had pictured them in my mind, so that I don't have to go through all the grammar and stuff. And my other problem is that, being a non-native speaker, my writing skill isn't at its best... you could probably already caught several grammatical errors in this post itself =_=

Argh, I wish I could write better.

And while we're on the subject of names, I find myself disliking real names. So when coming up with names, I use the widely popular word-manipulating method. Only that I manipulate word roots of different languages, and that the meaning behind those roots will have some relationship to the place/object/person with that name.

For ex. the world in which my story takes place is named "Jahanneth" and it came from the Persian word Jahan which means "the World."

Just in case anyone's interested, here's the site that I use: Behind the Name - Etymology and History of First Names

And that's about the longest post I've posted in the Downs so far =_=...

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

Some good, intelligent and helpful discussion here. On the subject of names; It is not names of characters that trouble me, rather names of places.

It is really troubling me. Does anyone else have difficulty with this, as opposed to character names?

[Eowyn Skywalker]

Oh yes, the evil art of place naming. I actually have became more adept at places to people, actually... being as I can follow some basic ideas for them. Now, for planets... that is easy, just come up with a name that's two or three syllables (sp?) long, such as Lanathaá... most are like that... Coruscant... Tatooine... Corriellia... many of the Star Wars planets are like that. Cities, on a fantasy world can contain 'fort' or 'tower' or something else of the like, if it is large... such as Fort Aleaon (made up on the spot). Towns tend to contain desriptive words, that are like the town, village, whatever. Such as Willow Creek, or Two Hills, or Rock Hollows... yeah. Things like that. Forests and mountains are easy to name. Here's my tip for creating a world, and that's to draw a map right off the bat, and come up with names, places, etc. That's what I did... drew a few maps... and now I have *counts on fingers* Akk... I can't even remember all my worlds... heh.

-Eowyn Skywalker

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

Oh yes, I love drawing maps! I keep putting off the actual task of writing because I want to refine the maps.

[Lathriel]

What makes naming places for me easier is to look where they are situated on your map. If the place is far north I tend to give it a simple northern name like for example ice town or I look for celtic like names.

If the place is south than I try to find a somewhat southern name.

[Elennar Starfire]

For names, I usually think of someone I know that's like the character I'm trying to name, and scramble up the letters in their name until I get something I like.

Place names are a nightmare...

[Nimrodel_9]

I have never really liked writing. In school when we are required to write a story, I put to much detail and events into them, and they end up being at least 8 pages long while everyone else has 1-2 pages.
However, I was in school a couple weeks ago, and on an impulse of my own, I felt like writing. I began jotting down ideas, and it is now coming along nicely. It is fantasy, my favorite kind of story because you can make anything happen, and it seems possible.
And yes, Tolkien has influenced my writing very much. Especially with names. Like Elennar Starfire, I have a list of names that I take from whenever I need to. Many of them sound like they could come straight from Tokien`s works.

[Elennar Starfire]

In school when we are required to write a story, I put to much detail and events into them, and they end up being at least 8 pages long while everyone else has 1-2 pages.

I think my record for a school-required writing was six pages, double-spaced...I got extra credit for writing more than necessary. (Loved my eighth grade English teacher!) I wanted to make it longer, but didn't have time. I may add details and improvements someday...my main problem with school writing is finishing in time, since I tend to write on with many details and plot twists. Though I rather pity the people who think eleven pages is a book rather than a longish short story...

*Leny realizes she's rambling*

Ok...I'll stop now...

[Encaitare]

I'm suddenly filled with inspiration for some new characters... I already have a few drawn but I really have very little idea what's going to happen to them. However, I went to the New York Renaissance Faire today and there were so many interesting and unusual people about that I just want to write about them all! Now all I need is a plot...

[Elennar Starfire]

Ah, I at last am rid of my Writer's Block! *sighs happily* Now, to find those papers I wrote it all on...

[Imladris]

Ah, but how did you break the block?

[Encaitare]

I currently just write fanfiction, but I have a couple of concepts for original fantasy that I'd like to use someday. Of course Tolkien is an influence, being the Master of all things Fantasy, but I only fear that I can never create anything to do my source of inspiration justice. Oh well, I'll give it a shot and see what happens... maybe when the new school year starts and I have plenty of time to slack off.

[Sirithheruwen]

On the other AYWSF thread, there is a very good tip for names (any).

1) Take the name of anything: your name, your town's name, anything.
2) Write countries, states, or towns to the side of it.
3) Look at the names you have created, and throw out the ones that don't make sense.

EX:

South Africa
Iceland
Rhode Island
India
Tibet
Holland

Names: Rl, Ochnio, Ueodbl, Tldiel, Haeata, Anin, Fdsd, Ia, Cn, Ad. (Usable names in italics. All names are up for grabs.)

I personally don't use this tactic because I don't have any trouble with coming up with names. I just write down the first thing that comes to mind, and that usually works.

Maps. You brought up something I dread doing, and haven't yet done for my story, which I am a good 150 pages in. I am no good with maps, and while I enjoy looking at finished ones, I fear making them. Don't ask me why, for I can't tell you. If anyone has any good maps suggestions, please come forth! (Please...)

[Isowen]

I write a lot of fantasy, it is very private though, i do show it to a few lotr fans. Tolkien has really inspired me and I get a lot of ideas from his work. I get a lot of the personality traits from Tolkien, though I don't copy his ideas and I think of all my own names. There are dwarfs, elves, and men in my stories, though no hobbits! And also I create various creatures. I think the best part is making up all the kingdoms and cities etc. I'm glad to know I'm not the only one who writes fantasy! and sirithherewn, I agree that maps are hard and I like your technique for names. I usually just think of words which sound like the names in lotr. almost like a rhyme! hope tht helps

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

I guess drawing maps just comes naturally to some people. I like drawing an island and slicing it up into different bits, adding forests and rivers and whatever. Do rough maps to start with, really simple things. Don't start with any great detail.