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10-31-2004, 03:38 PM | #41 | ||
Late Istar
Join Date: Mar 2001
Posts: 2,224
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Bethberry wrote:
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10-31-2004, 03:51 PM | #42 | ||
Tears of the Phoenix
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Putting dimes in the jukebox baby.
Posts: 1,453
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Of course, as I believe that Bethberry touched on, we may not know Tolkien's true feelings, as the book was not finished before his death.
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I'm sorry it wasn't a unicorn. It would have been nice to have unicorns. |
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12-02-2004, 05:38 AM | #43 |
Newly Deceased
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 10
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little late, but still...
I'm new here: I came upon the word eucatastrophe and had to react on one of the comments.
I read somewhere that the eucatastrophe in LOTR was the crumbling of the Black Gate. Of course the eucatastrophe is the destruction of the ring, which was against all odds. By doing it, you change the world you wanted to save. That is the logic of terror, either way you lose. By fulfilling your task, you undo the reason for your task (because the One is bond to the powers of the Three). More precise: the eucatastrophic element is the moment when Frodo finds out about the ring. Once he knows the facts, he can't deny them. That is the terrifying power of a vocation. It's in the knowledge: things will never be the same...(sacrifice and resurrection in one, like Christ) Last edited by ivo; 12-02-2004 at 07:28 AM. |
12-02-2004, 03:08 PM | #44 |
Bittersweet Symphony
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: On the jolly starship Enterprise
Posts: 1,814
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Good points, ivo, and welcome to the Downs!
Any thoughts on the topic here, eucatastrophe (or lack thereof) in the Silmarillion? |
12-02-2004, 07:49 PM | #45 | |||
Stormdancer of Doom
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Christ --------- Earendil Incarnation ---------parents Idril and Tuor early life ---------Gondolin ministry---------adulthood final journey---------takes ship westward passion---------offering of Silmaril (at this point it gets hazy, but one take might be: ) death ---------placed in sky as morning star resurrection ---------return to defeat Morgoth ascension --------- back into the sky again (admittedly there are other options that one might choose for parallels. I myself prefer a slightly different one, I think. Maybe. But I submit this simply for the sake of the argument that follows. ) Okay. Having said that: Tolkien stated that the Gospel is the One True Myth, the incarnation & passion & resurrection of Christ is the ultimate eucatastrophe. So (if we were to go by comparison) then Earendil's voyage, placing, return, and re-return would be the analogous events. However-- note that in all this, the surrounding folk don't have it so easy. Even those closely allied with Christ -- where was the 'happy ending' for them? No picnic there! Mary got to watch her son die a brutal, horrifying death. All the apostles but John were executed, many crucified. Lots of folk became lion fodder. Martyrdom abounded. Persecution was intense. Early church life was as bleak as the Silmarillion in its own way. It was the Long Defeat. Or at least, it sure looked like one. So in the book of Acts, and even in the rest of the New Testament (excluding Revelation), where is the eucatastrophe? It's not at the end of the story. It's not even in the middle. Its at the beginning. The eucatastrophe that Tolkien calls The One True Myth, had comparitively little physical evdence. There were no crumbling towers, panicking armies, volcanoes, or the like. The main evidence was located in humble places where the historians of the time paid little or no attention. However, that life, the beginning and the 'earthly ending', is the event which Tolkien calls the ultimate eucatastrophe. It took place almost entirely invisibly. Yet to the christian it is the pivot point of history. Physically it is immersed in suffering, hardship, executions, persecution and martyrdom; the essential monumental moment of victory is invisible. That is, unless you happen to be standing in Valinor, as Earendil offers up the Silmaril.
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...down to the water to see the elves dance and sing upon the midsummer's eve. Last edited by mark12_30; 12-03-2004 at 04:21 PM. Reason: Supply Earendel quote |
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