The Treason of Isengard: Eru's Plan? - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

mormegil · 07-12-2005, 03:47 PM

Free will is an interesting arguement and correct me if I'm wrong Mansun but it seems to me that you are in essence asking more about the relation of predestination and free will. Being that Eru is omnipotent the roles of everybody could be predestined could they not? However this goes against free will. I am of the opinion that an omnipotent being Eru (in Tolkien's world) or God knows exactly what every individual will do under a given set of circumstances. Does this take away from that individual's free will? No, it most definately doesn't.

The Istari were given certain roles to perform and they have their agency to decide what to do and what temptations to give into. Eru would know how Sauruman would act under certain conditions but he would not prohibit his errant ways even though they were against his initial charge to the Istari. I like to think of it foreordiantion as opposed to predestination. Before they came to Middle-earth the Istari were given certain roles to fulfill, they have their agency to choose how to fulfill them. They can either succeed or fail. Each is a distinct possibility, otherwise there is no true free agency.

07-12-2005, 03:47 PM	#5
mormegil Maundering Mage Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Texas Posts: 4,651	Free will is an interesting arguement and correct me if I'm wrong Mansun but it seems to me that you are in essence asking more about the relation of predestination and free will. Being that Eru is omnipotent the roles of everybody could be predestined could they not? However this goes against free will. I am of the opinion that an omnipotent being Eru (in Tolkien's world) or God knows exactly what every individual will do under a given set of circumstances. Does this take away from that individual's free will? No, it most definately doesn't. The Istari were given certain roles to perform and they have their agency to decide what to do and what temptations to give into. Eru would know how Sauruman would act under certain conditions but he would not prohibit his errant ways even though they were against his initial charge to the Istari. I like to think of it foreordiantion as opposed to predestination. Before they came to Middle-earth the Istari were given certain roles to fulfill, they have their agency to choose how to fulfill them. They can either succeed or fail. Each is a distinct possibility, otherwise there is no true free agency. __________________ “I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo. "So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us.”