Don't do me like that

[Lalaith]

At the risk of flattening what has become, IMO, a most rich discourse, I'd like to know if I understand Lush's original question/challenge aright and if my own thoughts are along the right lines.

Downers, one assumes, enjoy and accept Tolkien's world of fantasy. A world which lives by its own rules and its own terms, beyond our own experience - to the extent that it was originally flat. There is for example a race that lives forever, that does not need to sleep and defies the laws of physics by running over snow. There are spirits that can assume humanoid form, be reincarnated and battle with others through mind power alone. There are tree-like personages of huge antiquity, there are spirits of great power and evil, and a great variety of creatures, great and small, that can only be imagined in our own world.
Even among the mortal humans of middle earth, there is much that is para-normal - for example, a certain race of men that can live way beyond the lifespan of ordinary folk, and heal with their touch.
All these things have been accepted on their own terms - and alternatives, possiblities and explanations are discussed with subtlety, depth and humour (Balrog wings, anyone?) by Downers.

But as soon as gender is raised - thump! The discussion slumps to arguments along the lines of "but there couldn't be any females in the Fellowship because the girls at my high school hate getting their clothes dirty." It's the one thing that brings people crashing back into the mundane and limited "real world" (or rather their own particular world).

Lush, is this the kind of thing you were getting frustrated by?

[alatar]

Originally Posted by Lalaith

But as soon as gender is raised - thump! The discussion slumps to arguments along the lines of "but there couldn't be any females in the Fellowship because the girls at my high school hate getting their clothes dirty." It's the one thing that brings people crashing back into the mundane and limited "real world" (or rather their own particular world).

No problem with replacing the entire FotR with women, changing the gender of Gollum, etc. To me, with enough time and help and thought, the LotR trilogy could be completely reworked to have heroines in place of heroes.

The point is that Tolkien could not do this, and did not.

And so we can make whatever changes that we like; my concern is that I'm not sure that Lush really cares about how I could have Gandalf as a woman and still have a story similar to the original.

And the more that I read, the more I feel that I have no clue what Lush is asking for. Glad to help, but not sure what to do .

[Lush]

And the more that I read, the more I feel that I have no clue what Lush is asking for. Glad to help, but not sure what to do .

I think Lalaith said it better than I ever could.