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| View Poll Results: Who or What is Tom Bombadil | |||
| A nature spirit? |
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14 | 29.17% |
| The spirit of Middle-earth itself? |
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11 | 22.92% |
| A Maiar? |
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5 | 10.42% |
| A Vala? |
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3 | 6.25% |
| An Elf? |
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0 | 0% |
| A Dwarf? |
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1 | 2.08% |
| An immortal Man? |
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0 | 0% |
| The reader? |
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1 | 2.08% |
| Eru? |
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0 | 0% |
| I'll tell you in my post! |
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13 | 27.08% |
| Voters: 48. You may not vote on this poll | |||
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#1 |
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Pile O'Bones
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Dancing in rain
Posts: 16
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Tom has always been a mystery to me, and I suppose Tolkien meant him to be one. I've also been wondering who really is the oldest of all beings of Middle-Earth. Celeborn refers to Treebeard as the eldest, and Tom says he was around before trees even existed ( sorry I don't have the book in English so I can't quote the sentence...). So? If Tom was there before trees existed, I think Treebeard couldn't have lived by then. But did Celeborn make a mistake or had he just forgotten about Bombadil, or did he know about Tom at all?
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#2 | |||
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Eagle of the Star
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Sarmisegethuza
Posts: 1,058
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Treebeard is only called the eldest among Ents:
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#3 | |
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Shade of Carn Dûm
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The reason why i think that is because: There was obviously a 'first' elf. So that title automatically goes to them. Then Tom calls himself Eldest, and says he was before all elves. So Tom gets a share too. Now to be before elves, he would have to be an Ainu (which i dont beleive) but using Ainu in this context meaning created of the thought of Illuvatar or out of the Music. Pointbeing, he was before Melko returned and before the Marring. So there really is nothing to take away Tom's claim to the title, unless he is lying, which even putting his character aside, we can prove that is false. Gandalf is an Ainu, so he would know whether Tom was before elves or acorn or anything he said because he was around before Arda, and would have said that was false if Tom was really lying. So, going back to my origanal theory and post, its ok to have two 'Eldest,' because one is Eldest(of all the speakers minus Ainu) and Tom was still Eldest(metephorically) Also, if treebeard was the Eldest (technically, wouldnt he be? the Ents were before the Elves wernt they, but they couldnt speak yet?), Celeborn would have recognized my theory, because as one of the Wise, he would have known well of Bombadil, so he would have known he was not incorrect in calling Treebeard Eldest. ________ Chrysler Nassau History Last edited by Elu Ancalime; 03-03-2011 at 11:03 PM. |
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#4 | ||
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Eagle of the Star
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Sarmisegethuza
Posts: 1,058
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#5 | |
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Shade of Carn Dûm
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________ OG KUSH PICTURES Last edited by Elu Ancalime; 03-03-2011 at 11:03 PM. |
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#6 |
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Spectre of Decay
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In the early drafts of LotR, Tom calls himself 'Aborigine', not 'Eldest'. As Christopher Tolkien observes in his footnotes, the likely times for Tom to come into being are before the flight of Melkor and Ungoliant or, more likely, during the time in which Melkor was banished in the Void. Since Tom remembers the dark beneath the stars when it was fearless, Varda's star-kindling must have taken place before his memory begins, and therefore he was not alive when the Dark Lord originally entered Arda, first of all the Valar. That basically blows all of the 'Tom is an aspect of Eru', 'Tom is the spirit of Middle-earth' and 'Tom is a forgotten Maia' theories I've seen out of the water and leaves us with a character who is an anomaly. He's not exactly an Elf, certainly not a Dwarf, and while he could be a Man (the most likely explanation in my opinion), his great longevity is difficult to explain. In his letters, Tolkien points out that Middle-earth is an imperfectly conceived universe, and all but tells his correspondant that Bombadil can't be made to fit at all.
Personally Bombadil strikes me as Adamic, which might explain his long life. We might, I suppose, take him to be an image of unfallen Man, blessed with length of years and a disdain for worldly concerns, but even that would take some explaining, since he was in the lands about the Shire before the Elves first passed through. Tolkien was probably right: philosophizing does not improve him. My instinct is to accept the character as a mystery and mark up all inconsistencies with the main mythology to the vagueries of the branching acquisitive theme. After all, Tom was conceived long before he was made a part of Middle-earth, and it's perhaps inevitable that some of the joins should still show.
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Man kenuva métim' andúne? Last edited by The Squatter of Amon Rûdh; 02-20-2006 at 08:19 AM. Reason: Aberrant occurrence of 'Tolkien' for 'Tom' corrected |
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#7 | |
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Late Istar
Join Date: Mar 2001
Posts: 2,224
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Squatter wrote:
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