LotR3-RotK-Seq16

[alatar]

Originally Posted by The Saucepan Man

For me, the cinematic strength of the Battle of the Pelennor Fields, as depicted on film, lies in its logical weakness. It is too structured to be truly credible as a battle – the key events of the battle occur in a particular, well-defined order, rather than chaotically as they would in reality.

I with you on all of that. The battle must have a 'story' so that the audience can follow what is going on. Peter Jackson had enough to do keeping four storylines afloat all at once without losing the audience.

For example, the arrival of the Southron Mumakil is rather too conveniently timed to follow on from the charge of the Rohirrim. Where were they before? Why did they not arrive with the main force? Even Grond is quicker to the battle than them.

Gothmog called in his cavalry when the Rohirrim approached? Until then, they were down on the south end cooling their heels and daydreaming of giant peanuts. And, actually, the oli's weren't needed for sacking the city, and so Gothmog kept them out of the way. Pretty good for an orc chieftain.

The arrival of the Riders brings new hope and Theoden’s address to them, followed by the charge itself and the scattering of the Orcish marauders, is incredibly stirring.

Probably the best moment of the battle, if not the movie.

Now, while I can understand how individual scenes within the whole may give rise controversy (the Witch King’s confrontation with Gandalf and the strange, green, amorphous depiction of the Army of the Dead, for example), each marks a key event in the battle and creates a solid narrative structure which the audience can follow, and which brings real moments of tension and joy.

But there's even a thing as too much rollercoastering.

And some of these moments are captured magnificently, for me, in the expressions on Theoden’s face, each time that he turns to face a fresh challenge – by turns despairing, resigned and determined. For my money, Bernard Hill’s performance really shines in these scenes and is one of the highlights of the battle. Despite, perhaps, a controversially negative introduction, he gives Thedoen a truly and suitably worthy end.

Bernhard Hill does really well, and I like him better than most of the other actors. His, "oh fooey, what next?!?" expression is well done. It's lke he's saying, with his face, well, here comes another wave, and so let's meet it as best we may, on our feet. Excellent. He was well-cast.

My only real gripes...

You have gripes (plural) with the movie?!?

and the inexplicable absence of the Easterlings.

Gothmog held them in reserve in the south east, across the Anduin, and Aragorn's green slime gets them before our new King arrives on the Pelennor Fields.

[The Saucepan Man]

Originally Posted by alatar

You have gripes (plural) with the movie?!?

Oh yes, a fair few. But they are minor in comparison with my overall appreciation of the films. With the notable exception of those infernal Hyena-Lemming things in TTT, of course ...

Originally Posted by alatar

And, actually, the oli's weren't needed for sacking the city, and so Gothmog kept them out of the way. Pretty good for an orc chieftain.

Originally Posted by alatar

Gothmog held them in reserve in the south east, across the Anduin, and Aragorn's green slime gets them before our new King arrives on the Pelennor Fields.

Hehe. Now I have you explaining quibbles. You are learning well from Essex ...

Surely the Mumakil would have been useful to protect the rear of the besieging army from ... oh, I don't know ... something like a charge of frenzied Rohirrim, say.

And I see little point in marching troops from Rhun all the way round to the south of Mordor and back north so that they can approach the Morannon from the west, only to hold them in reserve!

But I quibble.

[alatar]

Originally Posted by The Saucepan Man

With the notable exception of those infernal Hyena-Lemming things in TTT, of course ...

What's wrong with the Wargs? You'll note that Wargs love water, and will jump at any chance to go for a swim. Isn't that why Saruman dammed the Isen? Can't see any other logical reason, and so I assume that the Isen was blocked up either to make a swimming pool for the Wargs, or to restrict their access to water, making them ill-tempered.

Hehe. Now I have you explaining quibbles. You are learning well from Essex ...

That's why I took on the SbS. It's kind of a penance for all of the quibbling I've done. Now it's my job to quibble out of both sides of my keyboard. And, truly, you, Essex and others have taught me a lot...though I still can't believe the world doesn't share my point of view.

Surely the Mumakil would have been useful to protect the rear of the besieging army from ... oh, I don't know ... something like a charge of frenzied Rohirrim, say.

Keeping the mûmakil behind the main army may have been dangerous. These evil folk turn on each other as well as the good folk, and one could see where the oliphaunt army, afraid that they will be left out of the spoils, decides to charge forward and in doing so, crushes all of the orcs waiting their turn to enter Minas Tirith.

But seriously, the Charge of the Rohirrim makes Sauron look more doofy than I would have thought. Typically the Big Eye has a plan, and seemingly for the Rohirrim, he was caught by surprise - no lookouts, orcs initially take heavy losses, Nazgul don't see approaching 7000 or so horses. Luckily the mûmakil were available, or there would have been nothing for the Army of the Dead to do.

And I see little point in marching troops from Rhun all the way round to the south of Mordor and back north so that they can approach the Morannon from the west, only to hold them in reserve!

They obviously need the exercise. If Gothmog would have had the mûmakil out and about during the initial big rock-throwing contest, he would have lost this weapon yet would not have been able to use it. Fire might not catch on Grond (or the siege towers) but oliphaunts are somewhat flammable. A few well-aimed rocks (interesting that I don't remember seeing any of Gondor's rocks laying on the Pelennor when the Rohirrim fight the mûmakil...hmm) from the Minas Tirith trebuchets into the oliphaunt line (which was perdendicular to the line of the Wall) would have been devastating.

But I quibble.

It's the SbS; what else do we do?

Thanks for posting.

[Essex]

Originally Posted by The Saucepan Man

Hehe. Now I have you explaining quibbles. You are learning well from Essex ...

LOL - Wait till you hear my "quibble explaination" for the arrival of the Dead. (although I have mentioned it before).....

Not much to mention on these scenes except for the beautiful acting from mckellen and boyd sitting down waiting to die.... and I have to admit I'd never noticed his artery pusling before Alatar. It's horrible! I won't be able to see this scene without looking at it again!

More fights with the Mumakil, and a Kingly 'To ME! To ME!' from Theoden before he realises he's in BIG trouble.

I do like the look on Eowyn's face. She is PETRIFIED but stands by her King. And a great shot of the WK falling off his steed with style and looking VERY menacing as he gets up, looking very hacked off!

I agree that the Mace is a little on the big side.......

[Elladan and Elrohir]

For me, the shot where the Witch-king rises up from his fallen steed was dead-on. That was exactly how I had pictured it reading it. It doesn't look like he picks himself up; he simply elevates. There's precious few shots that fulfilled my picture from the book exactly, but that was one of them.

[alatar]

Originally Posted by Essex

Not much to mention on these scenes except for the beautiful acting from mckellen and boyd sitting down waiting to die.... and I have to admit I'd never noticed his artery pusling before Alatar. It's horrible! I won't be able to see this scene without looking at it again!

It really...well...stands out, and I wonder what had Boyd's pulse so high in such a calm scene.

More fights with the Mumakil, and a Kingly 'To ME! To ME!' from Theoden before he realises he's in BIG trouble.

The mumakil rapidly approach. "To me!...Ah, no, to that guy over there! Over there!"

I agree that the Mace is a little on the big side.......

Slightly . There are times when PJ is just over the top, and this is one of those times.

[Elladan and Elrohir]

The Mace is pretty big, but it doesn't strike me as being over the top. In all the times I've watched the film, I have never stopped to marvel at the size of the W-K's weapon. But maybe that's just me.

[FeRaL sHaDoW]

[QUOTE=Elladan and Elrohir]it doesn't strike me as being over the top.[QUOTE]

its like the same size as his head