LotR3-RotK-Seq24

[Essex]

Alatar, re

Originally Posted by alatar

Me and many other people I know that consider Merry and Pippin's behaviour weird, excessive and/or smarmy.

But the whole story arc for these two was that they 'grew.' We saw even Pip take responsibility and care for Merry. Now we have these two narcissists hogging Frodo. If you must bounce and hug Frodo so be it, but get it out of your system and give the others a chance (can you imagine eight persons on the bed doing the same thing?

.....I cannot have the bouncy beans take a chill pill as that's what they (the actors) I guess wanted to do.

....Do we really need Merry and Pippin to be so excessive in their joy (I'm suddenly thinking of excited dogs, but won't go there) when we have so much more said in a simple look?

....It works without bouncing on a bed.

Let's take a look at what Book Sam felt when he woke up.

But Sam lay back, and stared with open mouth, and for a moment, between bewilderment and great joy, he could not answer. At last he gasped: 'Gandalf! I thought you were dead! But then I thought I was dead myself. Is everything sad going to come untrue? What's happened to the world?'
'A great Shadow has departed,' said Gandalf, and then he laughed and the sound was like music, or like water in a parched land; and as he listened the thought came to Sam that he had not heard laughter, the pure sound of merriment, for days upon days without count. It fell upon his ears like the echo of all the joys he had ever known. But he himself burst into tears. Then, as a sweet rain will pass down a wind of spring and the sun will shine out the clearer, his tears ceased, and his laughter welled up, and laughing he sprang from his bed.
'How do I feel?' he cried. 'Well, I don't know how to say it. I feel, I feel' – he waved his arms in the air – 'I feel like spring after winter, and sun on the leaves; and like trumpets and harps and all the songs I have ever heard!'

So Sam can have these 'exsessive' and joyous thoughts, so why not Pippin and Merry? They went through a fair bit too, let's be honest.

Therefore, I don't see Pipin and Merry's joy being neither weird, excessive nor smarmy!

PS - I didn't realise Jackson took Gandalf's laugh from the book as well. Well Done. (well, ok it was for Sam not Frodo, but I can forgive him that)

[alatar]

Originally Posted by Essex

Let's take a look at what Book Sam felt when he woke up. So Sam can have these 'exsessive' and joyous thoughts, so why not Pippin and Merry? They went through a fair bit too, let's be honest.

Therefore, I don't see Pipin and Merry's joy being neither weird, excessive nor smarmy!

PS - I didn't realise Jackson took Gandalf's laugh from the book as well. Well Done. (well, ok it was for Sam not Frodo, but I can forgive him that)

Since when do we consider what's in the Books to dictate what can be on the screen? Surely Sam and the others were overjoyed by the Fall of Sauron and the joy of making it through the storm alive. But why then is Sam restrained in his joy whereas Merry and Pippin act like the fools from back in the Shire? I know that this is sounding repetitive, but why can't Merry and Pip have a moment of joy then move aside to allow others access to their 'saviour?' Not only is it weird (my opinion), but after the first few seconds it then becomes hammy, where you start hearing the scene director yelling, "Keep bouncing! More joy! Billy? Do a flip or something? Can we get some jugglers?"

Me thinks that it comes down to personal preference...some, I guess, don't find a bunch of adults bouncing on the bed of a healing companion essexive...oops! I mean excessive.

[Essex]

Originally Posted by alatar

Since when do we consider what's in the Books to dictate what can be on the screen?

Alatar, pity we don't have an 'Ironic' smiley to use in this circumstance! I'm sure you were being Ironic there weren't you?

Of course we want as much from the books to dictate what we see on the screen!

[alatar]

Originally Posted by Essex

Alatar, pity we don't have an 'Ironic' smiley to use in this circumstance! I'm sure you were being Ironic there weren't you?

I think that I was being serious.

Of course we want as much from the books to dictate what we see on the screen!

So why do we get, straight from the books, as you presume, the happy bouncing bed scene, yet do not get Gandalf being the member of the Fellowship to suggest the dark road of Moria (Even worse, Gandalf suggests that they try the Gap!), or Eomer as the brother of Aragorn? Why is it that, when it comes to getting it right with the books, my view is always the path less taken?

I know; it's me.

[Essex]

I said we WANT. Not we GET. Of course we want the film to be as close to the book as it is. Except maybe for the couple of mistakes Tolkien himself made in the editing of his timelines, etc. (Sorry, just being picky with the Bard)

So let's scrap the entire scene and have Sam wake up and meet Gandalf with Frodo already awake. As it's this in the books, then let's have that. But do you really think we the readers can dictate what will be on a Movie adaptation just becasue it's not exactly like it is in the books? So therefore, let's not have a reunion scene with the main characters. For the uninitiated, non book reader (which I put it to you were the VAST majority of people going to see this movie, first time at least!), NOT to have a 'happy ending(s)' like this with the characters celebrating together would be silly.

[alatar]

Again, I've let go and have immersed myself in PJ's world, which is based on, however loosely, on Tolkien's work. We can use the books for guidance but need to tell the story well in the media that we use.

Regardless of whether PJ follows the books or makes up a scene from whole new cloth, he should be at least consistent with the story, characters, 'feel' of the movie and arc. By this scene one would hope that the characters were set for the most part. Why then, after having Merry and Pippin "grow" do we have to jump back to their origins of being selfish fools, then just thereafter, when they return to the Shire, behave more as one would expect.

[Essex]

so Sam, as I have shown above, was allowed to 'regress' in the book - why can't Merry and Pippin show their joy in the movie? I think this is nit picking to the nth degree.