Finrod, Andreth, and the coming of Eru - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

davem · 10-08-2003, 02:54 AM

This attempt to tie in the Legendarium with 'our' history is a difficult area. Clearly, if ME is our world in the ancient past, & if, as Tolkien apparently beleived, even the Pagan religions contained intimations of the incarnation (cf Mythopoea), then one can see that the Elves, particularly the High Elves, may have had some awareness, at least of the idea of the Incarnation.

Not knowing much theology, I don't know if Satan is believed to have 'suffused' himself into the fabric of the world, so i can't say how much this idea of Eru & Morgoth is exactly like the Christian concept. In other words, is this Tolkien dressing orthodox Christian belief in ME clothes? Or is it qualitatively different - in which case, is Tolkien actually referring to the Incarnation of Christ in this passage, or a kind of ME echo?

Finally, didn't Tolkien state that he felt the Arthurian legends 'failed' in some way, because they brought in the Christian religion too prominently, & so confused the Secondary world of Logres/Camelot with the primary world. It seems strange that Tolkien would attempt the same 'confusion'.

10-08-2003, 02:54 AM	#7
davem Illustrious Ulair Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: In the home of lost causes, and forsaken beliefs, and unpopular names,and impossible loyalties Posts: 4,240	This attempt to tie in the Legendarium with 'our' history is a difficult area. Clearly, if ME is our world in the ancient past, & if, as Tolkien apparently beleived, even the Pagan religions contained intimations of the incarnation (cf Mythopoea), then one can see that the Elves, particularly the High Elves, may have had some awareness, at least of the idea of the Incarnation. Not knowing much theology, I don't know if Satan is believed to have 'suffused' himself into the fabric of the world, so i can't say how much this idea of Eru & Morgoth is exactly like the Christian concept. In other words, is this Tolkien dressing orthodox Christian belief in ME clothes? Or is it qualitatively different - in which case, is Tolkien actually referring to the Incarnation of Christ in this passage, or a kind of ME echo? Finally, didn't Tolkien state that he felt the Arthurian legends 'failed' in some way, because they brought in the Christian religion too prominently, & so confused the Secondary world of Logres/Camelot with the primary world. It seems strange that Tolkien would attempt the same 'confusion'. __________________ “Everything was an object. If you killed a dwarf you could use it as a weapon – it was no different to other large heavy objects."