The Middle Earth Popularity Cup

[Rune Son of Bjarne]

++Gandalf

He is very entertaining in The Hobbit

[Thinlómien]

++Gandalf

is one of my favouritest characters ever.

Nog, cool down. It's not such a Sil-LotR battle - if it was, I'd be voting Túrin, probably. The problem is just that we've picked the wrong Sil characters and the right LotR characters to the semifinals...

[Nerwen]

Originally Posted by skip spence

My unseemly wealth and affilation to organized crime has little or nothing to do with the results of the of the past month or the fair and generous odds provided by Betberry. Since your post contains libelous statements without any factual support, I advice you to delete it immidiately for everyone's best benefit (not least your own).

All right, all right, Shady, I take it all back! Please don't send me to the bottom of the Bay of Belfalas in cement shoes!

Originally Posted by Lalwendë

He's an Odinic Wanderer and an enigma, whereas Turin likes to abandon people. And kill them.

And eat them... no wait, that was Gandalf.

[Aganzir]

++Túrin

He isn't perfect. He doesn't know what to do and makes wrong choices at times. Compared to him, Gandalf is boring.

[Nerwen]

At times?

But yes, Túrin is cool... nevertheless I'm going to vote

++Gandalf

because I like him better.

[Aganzir]

Originally Posted by Nerwen

At times?

He made also right choices at times. He could have suffered much more.

[Lalwendë]

Originally Posted by Morthoron

++Gandalf, my favorite hippie. Party on, Gandyman!

How much more entertaining it would have been if only Christina Aguilera had sung about the Gandyman instead

[Elmo]

++Turin Lovely city.

[skip spence]

++Túrin

He's a made man.

The score is currently 10-8 to Gandalf.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

That means, not much need to, but

++Gandalf

He is far, far, far more interesting and far, far, far nicer person than Túrin (however I started to like that one a bit more too after the CoH).

Although to be honest, I hoped for a more "interesting" (read: unusual) victor. But ah well.

[skip spence]

Gandalf has defeated Túrin Turambar. The old wizard was rattled for a while but showed his character in the end, coming back from a 2-5 deficit to win by 11 votes to 8. Túrin will have to change name once again to hide his shame.

The final between Gandalf and Boromir will commense tomorrow.

[Aganzir]

I could get Boromir's victory for birthday present from you all, couldn't I?

[skip spence]

Finally we've come to the climax of the tournament, the moment all have been waiting for with great excitement, the final of the Middle Earth Popularity Cup. Throughout the tournament we've seen many outsiders win fame and glory by beating the big stars. In the end however, as it should be, the final pairing is two players who were among the favourites before the start of the Cup, two of the real heavy-hitters of Middle Earth. Gandalf, perhaps Tolkien's most famous creation, faces Boromir, the good-hearted but flawed hero who evokes so much sympathy. He is no wizard's pupil, according to his father, but is he strong enough to compete with the Grey Pilgrim? Whatever the outcome, when Gandalf is come, the party is on.

The Final:

Gandalf vs. Boromir

As this is the final I'm extending the deadline until Sunday 12.00 PM board time.

[Strongbow]

++Gandalf

Because I'm not vindictive enough not to pick Mithrandir, who practically won the War of the Ring.

[Ibrîniðilpathânezel]

No doubt here:

++Gandalf

Boromir is interesting, but not inspiring. And if resisting the pull of the Ring was difficult for a human who only imagined that he could use it, how much worse would it be for a Maia who could use it, and was worn from two thousand years of trying to make the peoples of Middle-earth understand the peril posed by It and Its Master?

[Tuor in Gondolin]

A bit of an unexpected party final (Boromir making
it over Saruman, Gollum, Frdo, etc.). Let's see,
Sean Bean or Gandalf...

++ Mithrandir

[Morthoron]

++Gandalf...

An inspiration to the post-Kerouac/Ginsberg/Keynes literatti who are not existential enough for Sartre or Camus, but deplore the Bellow/Cheever-style novel moderne (or would that be novelle novel?), and yet are counterculture enough to pass on NRA memberships and actively propogate industrial/military complex conspiracy theories, while maintaining a faith in humanity, but without religious trappings, and blow smoke rings of diverse and marvelous shapes, but unfortunately not on par with the masterpieces wafted into the sunny blue skies of Hobbiton in the days of yore.

Ummm...have I mentioned I drank too much coffee this morning?

[Aganzir]

++BOROMIR

What's the fun with an old wizard who knows everything and is always there at the right time to save everyone? I vote for the less perfect, who also happens to be awesome.

[Eönwë]

++Gandalf

He is, simply put, the best. He always was my favourite, after Tom Bombadil.

[Lalwendë]

G G G G Grandalf, as Arkwright might have attempted to say as he quickly pulled his fingers out of the way of the dodgy cash drawer on his till and went out to see if he could chat up Nurse Gladys Emanuel before she went off into the murky Doncaster morning in her Morris Minor.

Oh wait.

We aren't talking about 1970s British sit-coms are we?

Oh. Well then.

++Gandalf.

[Ilya]

++Gandalf

[Groin Redbeard]

Originally Posted by Ibrîniðilpathânezel

Boromir is interesting, but not inspiring. And if resisting the pull of the Ring was difficult for a human who only imagined that he could use it, how much worse would it be for a Maia who could use it, and was worn from two thousand years of trying to make the peoples of Middle-earth understand the peril posed by It and Its Master?

Exactly, Gandalf is the best of Tolkien's characters! Whenever I think of Lord of the Rings the first figure that pops into my mind is Gandalf with his long grey beard and pointy hat. I like Boromir's character, but even with a flawless character like him there are those who are just better. Sorry Aganzir.

++Gandalf

[Nogrod]

*Yawns*

[Andsigil]

I'm going to fall on my sword here and side with Aganzir.

++Boromir

[the phantom]

So, you're going to vote off the most rational person in the books, huh?

Let's examine Gandalf's Ring plot.

Frodo barely even made it out of the Shire. He had quite a bit of luck helping him out. And luck again in the Old Forest. And again at Bree. And let's not even talk about when he was captured passing into Mordor. An entire fortress kills its own population?! I mean- honestly! The Cirith Ungol incident was ridiculous luck. And then again he and Sam get herded into a pack of Orcs, and they aren't recognized, and even escape?

And then of course when it came down to it Frodo failed. He couldn't throw the Ring into the fire. Hardly a surprise since Gandalf had witnessed first-hand at the beginning of the book that Frodo was not capable of risking harm to the Ring (the cooking fire, remember, Frodo couldn't throw it into his own cooking fire for Eru's sake!).

What I'm saying is, Gandalf chose a path that was guaranteed to fail! I find it silly that he is actually rewarded for his silly decision, and people think he was somehow more wise than Boromir because he chose the path of suicide.

Boromir's reaction was much smarter. Gandalf acted like it was a given that the Ring would corrupt the user. How did he know that? Where was the scientific proof? Yeah, sure, we know from the author telling us, but the characters in the story knew nothing about that. They didn't have access to Tolkien's writings. Given the knowledge that they did possess, it was rather wrong of them to state that the Ring would for sure corrupt the wielder, as if it was some sort of proven fact.

It wasn't.

From the perspective of the reader, Boromir's choice was wrong, because we can see everything. But please remember, the characters within the book were not omniscient. They had limited knowledge. And given what they did know, Gandalf's Ring decision was absolutely dumb, and Boromir's was sensible.

Try putting yourself within the story for once. Then you will see people for what they really are.

++ Boromir

PS I forgot my most important point. Aganzir wants a Boromir victory for her birthday. That ought to be enough for anyone.

[skip spence]

^What he said (that was awesome The Phantom!).

++Boromir

This ain't over folks! You don't want to ruin the lovely Aganzir's birthday, do you? Pm all your friends and ask for their support. If that ain't enough, sign in with alternate log-in names and vote Boro.

That last part is a joke by the way. Or is it? *shifty eyes*.

[Aganzir]

Finally some gentlemen!

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Originally Posted by the phantom

From the perspective of the reader, Boromir's choice was wrong, because we can see everything. But please remember, the characters within the book were not omniscient. They had limited knowledge. And given what they did know, Gandalf's Ring decision was absolutely dumb, and Boromir's was sensible.

Well, I always thought it is obvious that Boromir's choice was the one most of people would choose. Because it makes sense and has more chance of succeeding. That's the whole point of LotR, so you are not saying anything new (and I think it was not even the point anyway). But who made what choices plays no part in picking a character to vote for. I like Boromir, but not as much as Gandalf (and not because of how "right" their choices were). Simple as that.

++Gandalf

And I would second Nogrod. Well, we picked it ourselves.

[Shastanis Althreduin]

++Lynch Boromir88

....Oh, wait....

Darn. Guess I have to rephrase.

++Boromir

Purely because it's Agan's birthday coming up.

Lynch him! He's a wolf I tell you!

[Mithalwen]

LOL Shasta ... such is the power of the Downs that I tend to think of our Boro first... but book Boromir is one of Tolkien's more interesting and complex characters and one that is appealing for those of us who are also fallible mortals.

++Boromir

[mormegil]

++Gandalf

I didn't want to pull out the heavy ammo but you've forced my hand. I know from direct experience that Boromir has a bed-wetting problem. Popular kids never have that, ergo how can he be the most popular?

[Durelin]

Lol (I hope I may lol without being loled at)...thanks phantom.

Heck yeah,

++Boromir

I'm not that fond of Gandalf. Not fond of the old wizard type. Many of you will hate me for referencing Harry Potter, but I must say I was quite pleased when it was revealed (gradually) that Dumbledore was, overall, more of a jerk than most people saw. Excluding me, of course. (Unfortunately my Dumbledore-is-evil theory didn't play out, but ah well. Snape was good.)

Gandalf...not Dumbledore, I know. But really, there's a case for that. I mean, he didn't give Frodo any options. He goes missing whenever he's needed. And he expects everyone to listen to him. Also there's the respective candy and pipeweed addictions. Tsk tsk.

Boromir had the best reasons of anyone for his desire for the ring. And he's not only a hunky fighting machine but doubles as a snow plow and hobbit-carrier.

[Oddwen]

Tragic hero, tortured soul, redeemed rusher, power hungry, proud fallen, broad shouldered, disco king?

Yah. He tarries, and I grieve.

++BOROMIR

[Durelin]

Originally Posted by Strongbow

Because I'm not vindictive enough not to pick Mithrandir, who practically won the War of the Ring.

He got lucky.

[Lalwendë]

Boromir is fascinating but Gandalf is truly iconic.

When non-Tolkienistas think of LotR they think of Gandalf. In fact when anyone thinks of a wizard now, they think of Gandalf. Not even the mighty Harry Potter can beat Gandalf in the public imagination. Gandalf has everything that a wizard ought to have: a staff, a cape, a pointy hat, an old man's face, yet great strength, wisdom, and most of all...magic.

Gandalf is the culmination of wizardry throughout history, a great coming together of Merlin, Odin and Cernunnos. And he's more than just some old hippy with a nifty line in making fireworks, for all our jokes, he's the Servant of the Secret Fire.

And the final point of coolness about Gandalf, the Wand-Elf, is that despite his sheer power and incredible status, he would laugh his cloak off if you called him an old hippy

[Nerwen]

What she said.

++Gandalf

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Originally Posted by Durelin

He goes missing whenever he's needed.

But that was one thing that was great about him. He was always having some "other business" to manage elsewhere, the best it is actually in The Hobbit. Oh, and now I remembered all the cool things he did there, like mimicking the trolls or (very D&D-ishly, but on the other hand very un-D&D-ishly at the very same time) casting lightning bolts at the Orcs or making himself invisible.

And he expects everyone to listen to him. Also there's the respective candy and pipeweed addictions.

Just a few more reasons why he is so great character

[Lalwendë]

Exactly. One of the reasons Gandalf (and the Hobbits for that matter) is such a great character is he's not some horrible anodyne, vanilla 'hero' dreamt up by a focus group to be perfect and conform to the agenda of the modern world. So he smokes and probably drinks, and he's sarcastic? So much the better!



Watch modern films and TV and it seems any smokers/drinkers are automatically evil because this is lazy writers' shorthand for 'bad guy', tut tut. Gandalf isn't 'PC' and that's good!

[skip spence]

The score now is 11-8 to Gandalf. The deadline won't pass until 12.00 Pm so this contest is still on.

[Gollum the Great]

++Boromir

He's awesome.