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12-01-2003, 11:49 AM | #41 |
Deathless Sun
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I agree. Grima seems to be the quintessential double agent, switching allegiances when it seems most convenient for him.
I still think however that Grima overheard Saruman insulting the Rohirrim and Rohan in general, and that helped goad him into the frenzy that it required to throw the palantir out of the window. Deep down inside, I still think that Grima loved Rohan, perhaps not your or my definition of "love," but his own type of love. It was there, buried deep under all that hate, resentment, and jealousy. It was the same thing that made him shed that tear on the terrace of Isengard when he saw Saruman's army (yeah, it's a movie example, but it still holds in this case).
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12-01-2003, 12:03 PM | #42 | |
Haunting Spirit
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12-04-2003, 07:07 AM | #43 |
Pile O'Bones
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In TTT, after Grima has cast the Palantir, Gandalf says, (although this is not a quote)that it was not something that Sauruman would have chosen to have thrown. Grima must have known of the power of the Palantir, and i can only assume that it was part of Grimasw love-hate relationship with Sauruman
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12-04-2003, 01:26 PM | #44 | |
Wight
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Finwe said
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For I was talking aloud to myself. A habit of the old: they choose the wisest person present to speak to; the long explanations needed by the young are wearying. -Gandalf, The Two Towers |
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12-05-2003, 02:24 AM | #45 | |
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Later days! [img]smilies/cool.gif[/img] ->Elenrod [ 3:29 AM December 05, 2003: Message edited by: Nilpaurion Felagund ]
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フェンリス鴨 (Fenrisu Kamo) The plot, cut, defeated. I intend to copy this sig forever - so far so good...
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12-11-2003, 05:39 PM | #46 | ||
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Why did he throw that? Very good question, Arvedui! There's a lot more to the Palantír than I realised when I first read the books! I think that if you put yourself in Wormtongue's position, the most obvious emotion behind his action is Palantír envy. Imagine that your brother, dad, wife, whoever, spends all their time with this mysterious object that you are forbidden to use or even ask about. I dunno, let's say for argument's sake that a computer monitor or a television comes flying out of Orthanc instead. Gríma was feeling a lot of rage at the time, and I think a large part of it was directed at the object itself. So I think his main purpose was to throw the accursed thing out the window, and secondly to cause damage to one of the many people below that he hated with all his being. In my opinion, he hated Saruman most, but that's definitely open to debate. What I think is completely unlikely is that he Quote:
On the whole I have to agree with those of you that see his fit of rage as a conscious betrayal of Saruman. I don't think Wormtongue fully knew the consequences of his little rebellious tantrum, but he did believe that it would end up hurting Saruman.
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01-04-2004, 09:32 PM | #47 | ||||
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But then again, he could see Saruman going into a mysterious room and staying inside for hours. Then his curiosity will be stoked as to what's so appealing in the room. The chaos of the Ents' attack may have given him the chance. As to what happened in his mind after that...that's what the debate is all about. Quote:
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But then again, the "Double Agent" theory was just one of my three suggestions. Might have been a combination of any reason. ->Elenrod <font size=1 color=339966>[ 9:00 PM January 06, 2004: Message edited by: Nilpaurion Felagund ]
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フェンリス鴨 (Fenrisu Kamo) The plot, cut, defeated. I intend to copy this sig forever - so far so good...
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01-05-2004, 07:08 AM | #48 |
Shade of Carn Dûm
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He didn't go good in the shire...he just snapoped and killed Saruman in revenge, then tried to escape. Sad, but what he deserved.
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01-06-2004, 08:04 PM | #49 | |
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フェンリス鴨 (Fenrisu Kamo) The plot, cut, defeated. I intend to copy this sig forever - so far so good...
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01-10-2004, 02:57 PM | #50 |
Haunting Spirit
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I think Grima was just mad and grabbed the first thing he saw (except Saruman) and chucked it out the window. Also he probably didn't know what it was.
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