Could (Should) the Simarillion become a film?

[Olorin_TLA]

Conisder the fact that LotR were massive successes, now New Line want to get Hobbit rights badly...I think execs, if it was pitched right, might lap up the opportunity for Silm; if only for "cash cow" (YURGHCH!!!) reasons.

[Gil-numen]

Unless you read the Silm, the movie would probably confuse you to insanity. Many people I know can't stand the book so what would make the movie so appealing ?<P>--------------------------------<BR>"Show it to me"<BR>Thingol to Beren

[Olorin_TLA]

I'm sorry, but people said that about the LotR films.<P>If the script confuses people, it'd be the script-writer's fault.

[Evisse the Blue]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Make the Fëanor story into a movie, but with a new perspective. Make it a bit of a "look what happens when you do this" sort of movie. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>That would totally ruin it for me. I have this idea about Feanor as a flawless yet charismatic individual whose genius makes up for his arrogance and mistakes. But I can see how one might take this idea and turn it into a cliche, like the 'misunderstood rebel, live fast die young, etc'.<P>As for the average intelligence of moviegoers: I've come to the conclusion that there are people who are very intelligent and of good taste, but who, when in front of the tv or the big screen, aquire the attention span and the mood of a pre-teen. What they watch has, therefore, to be as plain as possible and 'yay -fun!' This is not to say that they're stupid -- it's just that they seem to regard movies and shows as 'the lowest form of entertainment'; they turn to them when they're too tired or too fed up to do anything else and need something as easy-going as possible to help them unwind and capture their attention for that 2 and a half hours. Plus, there are, of course, people who haven't picked up a book since they left college, and you can imagine what kind of movies <I>they</I>prefer.<p>[ 7:54 PM January 01, 2004: Message edited by: Evisse the Blue ]

[Olorin_TLA]

Well, when all else fails...ignore the existence of everyone but yourself when thinkignof movie-intellect!<P>If people can be conditioned to accept brainless cesspools (see, pun!) for entertainment, they can get used to brain-stuff!<P>Besides, lots of mart films do well. There just aren't as many made.

[nobody]

I think Narn i Chin Húrin would be easier to make than Beren & Lúthien because in the Unfinished Tales version, it has a lot of detail and considerably more dialogue than any of the tales in the Silmarillion. I don't see what's wrong with 'dark' movies- don't people want something other than the predictable ending of the typical fantasy movie, with the hero coming up with some cunning plot to rescue the damsel in distress?<p>[ 3:07 PM January 03, 2004: Message edited by: nobody ]

[Finwe]

Evisse, I have nothing whatsoever against Fëanor. I think he's the greatest Elf ever, though that's probably what got my character into trouble! I was just coming up with different ways of "spicing up" the story.<P>*runs off and beats herself because she's starting to sound like PJ*

[Evisse the Blue]

'S okay, Finwe. Just trying to keep the ball rolling; you know brainstorming and such. After all, we got a movie to make, right people??

Okay, so the picture for the Simarillion is almost gone, but what of certain stories inside the Simarillion that could be made into individual movies? It's an okay idea. I really liked the idea some had of Beren and Luthien. Maybe, just maybe, the film ados. will allow a revised connection for every story (meaning a series of 7 or 8 movies, possibly?). No worries! Nothing is written in stone yet! There is still a lot of time for ideas (and criticism). Keep it up!

[Lobelia]

Well, one of the students at my high school has been coming to my library to do her research for a Silmarillion movie she wants to do as her Media Studies project. I don't know if she intends to do it as an animation or persuade her friends to get into costume and make-up as one boy did last year for his movie, and no one will ever see it but her teacher and a few friends and maybe me but I have seen the storyboard and it looks good. She is just going to do the theft of the Silmarils.

[zb]

After listening to a recording of Christopher Tolkien reading "of Beren and Luthien" today, I'd say there's definite movie potential. <P>Unfortunately, there's also a lot of potential for cringeworthiness of the worse sort (imagine if Disney got their hands on a story which involves a large talking hound!), but that's the way these things go.<P>I'd be much more inclined to support an arthouse B&L, I guess.

You can't make Galadriel the main character of the Silmarillion, because although she is mentioned she plays no major role in *any* of the events in any of the myths, and she's not even involved in the vast majority of them. There are about twenty other characters with much bigger parts to play. It would be like making Elrond's sons (Elrohir and Elladan) the main characters of the Lord of the Rings. How big a rewrite would THAT take?

[Firefoot]

I can think of two more things that could prove difficult in the making of the Sil into a movie.<P>One is that the book takes place over the course of 500+ years. Moviemakers could try to compress that but it would still take place over an extremely long time. Even if you made it into several movies it would still be a long time.<P>The other is that even if you decided to make it into several movies and started, say, with Feanor, you would still have to come up with a kind of prologue explaining Valinor, the Valar, the Maia, etc. I have had several people ask me what Sauron is - people who have read the book even!- and by the time I say Maia, they are lost. Otherwise you end up with questions about why leaving Valinor and disobeying the Valar was such a big deal.<P>As for adding on to things that have already been said, there have been thoughts that you would need at least one main character. BUT can anyone give a MAIN character that stays alive throughout the duration of the book? There are a couple of smaller characters, or characters that do big things but very few: Galadriel has been mentioned, and some of Feanor's sons are living for most of the book, Turgon lives until almost the end, and there are several others. But these charaters have nothing to do with some of the important events: Beren and Luthien, Turin, etc. Almost all of the real main characters DIE!<P>I don't think the movie would sell to the average people. Most (all?) of the people who really enjoyed the movie would have probably have read the book. I don't think most Americans anyway would be too keen about Turin sleeping with his sister either... The thing is, most people like happy endings. Or if not happy, atleast the ending should be tied up and not be completely depressing. Some of the endings to the individual stories in the Sil are just that - depressing. Some of them are "happy" but it is hard to have a happy ending when almost all the main characters die. Can you imagine filming LotR if in the book Frodo, Sam, Merry, Gimli, and just for the heck of it, let's throw in Eomer, Eowyn, and Legolas, all died? You would have your king, and at least one of the Hobbits is still alive, but all the rest died. It wouldn't work. Maybe that is an extreme example, but basically that is how I see the Sil coming out if you tried to do the whole thing.<P>The long and the short of it is I don't think you could make the Sil a movie that does justice to the book. I know people said the same thing about LotR but I think that the Sil entails a lot more problems than LotR did.

[Lalaith]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> I don't think most Americans anyway would be too keen about Turin sleeping with his sister either... <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>ahem...the rest of the world calling the United States...most of us aren't too crazy about incest either...and neither was Tolkien. <BR>The horror of what Turin had done drove him to suicide, remember.

[the phantom]

Here's another thread about this topic-<BR> <A HREF="http://forum.barrowdowns.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=4&t=002124" TARGET=_blank>http://forum.barrowdowns.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=4&t=002124</A> <P>and another-<BR> <A HREF="http://forum.barrowdowns.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=4&t=000953" TARGET=_blank>http://forum.barrowdowns.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=4&t=000953</A> <P> <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> That would totally ruin it for me. I have this idea about Feanor as a flawless yet charismatic individual whose genius makes up for his arrogance and mistakes. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Nice to know I'm not the only one who has an extreme love of Feanor (to the point that I attempt to whitewash him of any blame in discussions on the forum). <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> I think Narn i Chin Húrin would be easier to make...it has a lot of detail and considerably more dialogue <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Agreed. I've always thought that story would be the best to make into a movie. Have a quick set up at the beginning, show the Battle of Unnumbered Tears (wouldn't that be awesome?), and then follow Turin through his life.<P>I'd also like to see a movie going from Feanor's birth till his death.<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> I can think of two more things that could prove difficult in the making of the Sil into a movie...One is that the book takes place over the course of 500+ years...BUT can anyone give a MAIN character that stays alive throughout the duration of the book? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Your points are correct if we assume that the movie would cover the entire Sil. But if the movie was about what I suggested (following either Turin or Feanor's life) then your problems would be solved.<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> when almost all the main characters die...It wouldn't work <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Well, in Romeo and Juliet you have the two main characters as well as a three or so of their co-stars dropping dead but yet the story turned out to be mildly successful, did it not? <P>It definitely could work despite the tragedy (with the right director, but then again you can say that about most things).

[VanimaEdhel]

I was actually discussing this with some of my Tolkien-fan friends at lunch the other day. I think that, as a whole, it would not be possible to put together "The Silmarillion: The Movie", but if you wanted to take select stories (one chapter at a time) and go in depth for one movie, it would work splendidly. One friend suggested a series of sorts, but I don't know whether they meant for cinema or for television. Unless it would be on one of the wealthier cable channels (HBO, for example), I don't think they could do the tales justice with the epic scale necessary for covering so much history. And doing a series in the movies covering all of the tales would be nearly as hard to contrive.<P>Basically, in my opinion, it would be very difficult to make a movie of "The Silmarillion", but if someone was truly dedicated to it (and was strictly canon), they could turn it into something interesting. However, since it is such a great work, I would not even do as much with it as Peter Jackson did with Lord of the Rings in the way of artistic liberties. I would be horrified if anyone changed anything.<P>At the moment, I think there's more chance of us seeing a version of <I>The Hobbit</I> sometime in the near future (within the next decade or so), as Peter Jackson has spoken of a mild interest, as has Ian McKellen in the way of returning as Gandalf.

ABSOLUTELY!!! And I pray on bended knee that Peter Jackson will take up the project.<BR>Reading the Silmarillion, first thing after seeing FOTR really gave me a lot of insight into the LOTR. It may be after the fact, and it would have been better if people could have seen or read The Silmarillion first, but hey, look what they did after<BR>the Star Wars trilogy. They kept adding to it and the story went back to the beginning of how it all came to be.

[Kaiserin]

Hmm... I've got mixed feelings about a "Silm" movie ... of course there would be an initial excitement about seing the Silm on film, but then when I get to thinking of how it could be totally massacred and messed up - horrible would be an understatement (how about "blasphemy"? ) <P>Hard to imagine it all compresed into a few hours. There would have to be a lot of narration and explanation - and that would just ruin the whole reason for making it visual.<P>The Silmarillion is too "history-ish". To make this a success, there would have to be an awfully good director, a screenplay writer who can work miracles, an outstanding cast and a superhuman creative team ... and a budget that is several oliphaunts huge. <P>Galadriel would make an awkward "focal point" since most of the story doesn't have anything to do with her - not directly, anyway. At most, she can be the narrator with a third-person perspective.<P>I'd agree with the others' posts about Beren & Luthien's story and Turambar's tale as the most "film-worthy" parts of it. But if you take only parts of the Silmarillion, you might as well give it a whole different title. I mean, what's the point of calling it "The Silmarillion" if it's just going to be a very small fraction of the whole thing? But then, imagine a film called "Beren and Luthien" or "The Tale of Túrin Turambar" or "Fëanor"? - Those are really sucky titles.<P>If those big movie companies wouldn't invest in a Silm-film (and that seems likely), Tolkien fans would have to settle for viewing a low-budget one. (A low-budget Silm? Hardly possible!) Now <I>that</I> will be a waste of time and effort.<p>[ 5:08 AM January 15, 2004: Message edited by: Kaiserin ]