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02-05-2004, 06:41 PM | #41 |
Blithe Spirit
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,779
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Thank you!
That's really interesting. The Necromancer is not really integral to the plot of the Hobbit - and if he hadn't thought of him as Sauron, then he is just an example of Tolkien's inventiveness, the way he adds texture to Middle Earth.
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02-06-2004, 06:28 PM | #42 | |||||
Wight
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Blowing the froth off a couple in this quaint little pub in Michel Delving.
Posts: 147
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I think, Saucepan Man, that Findegil's supplied quote (very nice, by the way!) was much more than discussing possession. I think the possibility of an alien spirit possessing a body was just a by-product of the 'necromancy' at issue.
Assuming fëa to indicate the spirit (the eternal part of a created being contrasted with the body, or 'house'), then it is this summoning process that is being discussed in the passage. Quote:
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Then the quoted discussion's final couple of paragraphs discuss what may be the desire or will of these dispossessed spirits, and is really more of a sideline. A general point I would like to contribute to this thread is that Tolkien, being well familiar with the Bible, I think intended this Necromancy (described thoroughly in Findegil's quote) to be very similar to the Biblical injunction against consorting with those having a familiar spirit, purporting to be in communication with the dead. Here, then, is a great story from the Bible, pertaining to the topic. Quote:
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For I was talking aloud to myself. A habit of the old: they choose the wisest person present to speak to; the long explanations needed by the young are wearying. -Gandalf, The Two Towers |
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02-10-2004, 10:00 PM | #43 |
Shade of Carn Dûm
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: 315, CNY Boys and girls.
Posts: 405
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Using the dead for divination, that would be the most accurate summary of the term necromancy, not really as simple as 'black magic', but as simple as the whole divination bit goes.
Divination is more than just making predictions to the future. It can be creating prophecies by supernatural means. It's also the act of discovering 'hidden, occult' knowledge. So through communication with the dead, Sauron was discovering death's secrets and other foul practices. I think, the Mouth of Sauron could also be labelled as Necromancer, through the foul crafts of elongating his own life. If the involvement of communication with 'dead spirits' is more important to the craft, I'd say Sauron's pets - werewolves would be a good start. Fell spirits he places in his own sorts of instruments. The Barrow Wights are also the same idea, as are the stone watchers of his strongholds. Yeah, it seems like the Nazgul might be something along the lines of a 'dead spirit' also, but they came through a sort of loophole he found in the definition of 'living' things.
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"I come from yonder...Have you seen Baggins? Baggins has left, he is coming. He is not far away. I wish to find him. If he passes will you tell me? I will come back with gold." - Khamul the Easterling |
02-27-2004, 07:20 AM | #44 |
Deadnight Chanter
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fëa - pl fëar
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Egroeg Ihkhsal - Would you believe in the love at first sight? - Yes I'm certain that it happens all the time! |
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