could any of the kingdoms at middle earth attack the southern continents?

[tom the eldest]

Now,im somebody get mad at me,im sorry but i just love asking this kind of question.

Now,we know that numenorean do colonise some places there,but no further mention of it.so if the numenorean are able to colonise the lanf,could the kingdoms of middle earth do so?i mean if there southern kingdom are declaring an assault on middle earth,could the the middle earth kingdom counter-attack?(in this scenario there is NO sauron,no nazgul,just a palin old mordor with lots of orcs in it)

[Ivriniel]

Originally Posted by tom the eldest

Now,im somebody get mad at me,im sorry but i just love asking this kind of question.

Now,we know that numenorean do colonise some places there,but no further mention of it.so if the numenorean are able to colonise the lanf,could the kingdoms of middle earth do so?i mean if there southern kingdom are declaring an assault on middle earth,could the the middle earth kingdom counter-attack?(in this scenario there is NO sauron,no nazgul,just a palin old mordor with lots of orcs in it)

Once Sauron was removed from Middle Earth, there's no reason, at all, to presuppose that the warring stopped. I think FA meant a whole lotta humans, as the other races faded. But we also know that humans were most able to be influenced by Morgoth from the Void. In fact, there is reference in materials about The Elessar that points out that Morgoth had kind of affected the sun, and that was what The Three were able to ward against.

So, in terms of 'reason' humans war with each other, Tolkien was presupposing that the fractures in the human cultural mind, and the causes of war were due to Morgoth's eternal presence amongst 'us'. A bit like what people say about 'The Devil'.

As for the extent and range of Numenorean colonisation--I have no idea. As far south as Harad, was where the mythology ceases. But, we don't know anything about the far east. And, for example, what became of the Blue Wizards, except that the fell into sorcery (where that variant of lore was given over to 'evil magic')....

[tom the eldest]

This is about the probability of middle-earth's forces to attack the dark lands.i mean,the logistics,the amount of troops,the distance,etc.the south continent do have mumakil,and the kingdom there probably have lots and lots of troops,like most primitive tribes of africa.

[Nerwen]

Originally Posted by tom the eldest

This is about the probability of middle-earth's forces to attack the dark lands.i mean,the logistics,the amount of troops,the distance,etc.the south continent do have mumakil,and the kingdom there probably have lots and lots of troops,like most primitive tribes of africa.

I could ask, "which of Middle-earth's forces? And when?". But in fact I'm not sure it's possible anyway to answer this in the terms you want: "logistics, the amount of troops, the distance, etc". That requires statistical information that doesn't actually exist- sorry.

[William Cloud Hicklin]

It is I suppose possible that Gondor at the height of its maritime potency under the "Ship-Kings" would have had the capacity. But the desire?

Note though that even when Royal Gondor was decaying, after the Kinslaying, the Plague and the Wainriders, nonetheless the fleet and army Earnil sent to Arnor's aid, too late, was a still force of size and power almost unimaginable in the North.

[tom the eldest]

Originally Posted by William Cloud Hicklin

It is I suppose possible that Gondor at the height of its maritime potency under the "Ship-Kings" would have had the capacity. But the desire?

Note though that even when Royal Gondor was decaying, after the Kinslaying, the Plague and the Wainriders, nonetheless the fleet and army Earnil sent to Arnor's aid, too late, was a still force of size and power almost unimaginable in the North.

The woods at the southern jungles maybe enough factor for gondor to conquerd the land.afterall,the need wood for everything.fuel,ships,houses,all of those are made of wood.and also,maybe there are precious gems,rich iron veins,and many more,even mithril in the south.that should be enough for th3 gondorians.

[Morthoron]

Originally Posted by tom the eldest

This is about the probability of middle-earth's forces to attack the dark lands.i mean,the logistics,the amount of troops,the distance,etc.the south continent do have mumakil,and the kingdom there probably have lots and lots of troops,like most primitive tribes of africa.

Tolkien does not provide enough information. From an historical perspective, lands are conquered so that natural resources can be exploited: whether that means fertile land to feed an expanding population; the availability of rich lodes of precious metal, iron ore or coal; some other tangible and tradeable goods (like rare spices, as someone mentioned); or sometimes the people of a certain region are exploitable goods for the slave trade.

We don't know. It is all conjecture. There is no mention of it. There are only possibilities based on real-world historic data.

[Zigûr]

Are we talking about Harad here? Which, incidentally, is actually still part of "Middle-earth." I assumed originally that this thread was specifically talking about the "Dark Land", which is to say the far Southern continent which appears on one of the 1930s Ambarkanta maps of Arda and might potentially be considered a quasi-Australian or Antarctican landmass. This is to say, a region about which we know literally nothing apart from a shape and two names, "Dark Land" and "South Land", the former of which can easily be confused with Mordor and the latter with Harad.

news would have spreaded from the haradrim and corsairs

Given that "Harad" is just a catch-all name for almost everything South of Gondor, aren't all the inhabitants of the "Southern Continent" technically Haradrim? If we're not talking about the "Dark Land," isn't the "Southern Continent" just Harad?
It's been stated that there was probably conflict between the Easterlings and the Haradrim and we know for a fact that Gondor and Rohan were forced to attack certain parts of Harad (and Rhûn) in the Fourth Age to defeat realms which refused to put aside their ancient enmity with the West even after the fall of Sauron. So if by "Middle-earth" we mean "parts of Middle-earth north of Harad" then yes they did, which must as such prove that yes, they could.

[tom the eldest]

Nah ,harad not included in the middle earth category.
Now,gondor did manage to push the southrons way to their homeland but they never go as far as far harad and the southern continent.if gondor can invade to the south,why they not push their advantage and invade the dark lands?the possibility is,a very large mumakil troops await them in far harad,and the gondorians then too afraid to attack them,knowing the risk.then they retreat.

[William Cloud Hicklin]

Originally Posted by Morthoron

Tolkien does not provide enough information. From an historical perspective, lands are conquered so that natural resources can be exploited: whether that means fertile land to feed an expanding population; the availability of rich lodes of precious metal, iron ore or coal; some other tangible and tradeable goods (like rare spices, as someone mentioned); or sometimes the people of a certain region are exploitable goods for the slave trade.

Or simply because it was the sort of thing kings felt they were expected to do. If they were good at it, they got nifty epithets like "the Great" or "the Conqueror."

(If you don't believe me, look at all the blood and treasure that centuries' worth of Persian and Roman emperors poured into taking Armenia off one another- despite the fact that there's not a damn thing there worth 'exploiting')

[Morthoron]

Originally Posted by William Cloud Hicklin

Or simply because it was the sort of thing kings felt they were expected to do. If they were good at it, they got nifty epithets like "the Great" or "the Conqueror."

(If you don't believe me, look at all the blood and treasure that centuries' worth of Persian and Roman emperors poured into taking Armenia off one another- despite the fact that there's not a damn thing there worth 'exploiting')

True, WCH, but Armenia at least has habitable land, whereas a desert is a desert. The only difference in the sand of Near Harad and Far Harad is proximity