WW LXXV: It's Always Tea Time Here

[Aganzir]

I'm afraid Brinn is a wolf and playing along with my suspicion of Nerwen.

I'm also afraid Nerwen is a wolf who has really pulled herself together and is now making up for appearing even the least bit suspicious earlier.

I'm afraid Lommy is the cursed. She kept looking very innocent and making sense to me up until yesterday. Maybe it has to do with the fact that she started suspecting me, with reasons I find silly. Or because she's been going along with "it's either Agan or Nerwen and if one is innocent I'll go after the other," which feels way too simple now that I'm having doubts aboutNerwen myself.

And I'm afraid Shasta is a wolf slipping under everybody's radar. Gosh that would be beautiful...

Legate writes too long paragraphs which means his posts aren't nice to read! And yes before you ask I'm worried about him too, mainly because he feels much sloppier and, frankly, dumber than I remember him to be. If there were any weird new roles I'd be sure he had one (and no Unicorn doesn't count).

Originally Posted by Lommy

Wow that was pretty drastic... now I really wonder... (not about Skip though!)

What were you wondering?

Nerwen, why don't you suspect me? This is a weird question, I know, but I'm curious.

Garr I don't have time the day time is needed...

[Thinlómien]

Originally Posted by Aganzir

What were you wondering?

Whether I should use the opportunity and vote you or stick to my planned vote of Nerwen. Obviously, I made the wrong choice - we could've got Nerwen lynched yesterDay and either the game would be over or we'd be one wolf down or we at least wouldn't need to waste a third Day in a row wondering about her (I know we are not forced to do it but at least I'm just stuck with it until she dies or starts seeming very innocent for some reason).

[Aganzir]

Originally Posted by Thinlómien

And Agan, don't try to convince me you would certainly have a different voting record as a wolf. I don't doubt your ability to throw your fellows under the bus, but I also know that you are one to make risky moves - and not voting Sally or Glirdan would be one.

I know there's no use trying, you'll see when I die or the game is over, but you can ask yourself anyway why Aganwolf would incriminate herself by not suspecting sally and Glirdan, of all people.

It's just that you suspect me for something Aganwolf is very unlikely to do, saying "she could be appearing dumb on purpose to make herself look more innocent," so basically you've decided I'm suspicious and how I act doesn't matter in the least because either way you could accuse me. And that's either stupid or a very convenient wolf plan.

[Aganzir]

I'm trying to decide whether I should stick with my earlier suspicions (I have bad experiences of letting go of pursuing a wolf because they began to look more innocent) or vote for somebody who I haven't been suspicious of before (mainly Lommy but also Legate & Brinn, to an extent)...

Heck this is so frustrating.

As for winty, I think it's better to ignore him, regardless of his role, until he starts to post more. And if somebody tries to lynch him today "just to be on the safe side," they are either wolves or stupid. Because we just can't afford to check people out, at least as long as we don't know if there's one or two wolves.

[Thinlómien]

I wouldn't say dumb. What's dumb about helping your fellows? I know not wolf-on-wolfing may be regarded dumb by some, but I personally disagree. The times I have won as a wolf were the ones when me and my fellows stuck together, not when we voted each other. The profits of wolf-on-wolfing are generally overestimated - look at Nerwen here, half the village suspects her even though she voted all the known wolves. Of course, some wolf-on-wolf votes look very innocent, but they're the ones that are so risky 90% wolves wouldn't make them.

And it's not just that your voting record is eyeborw-raising but what you yourself said: a to-die Nog wolf could/would have made sure his fellow looks good and votes him, and you happen to be one of the few living players whose first vote on a wolf was on that said Day.

Lastly, with maybe the exception of Legate, we only have people whose voting record is quite off (you, Shasta) or very precise (me, Nerwen, Brinn) and I've got to suspect somebody. (Winty not included 'cos I don't remember his votes. ) You just happen to creep me out, and I was trying to think if Aganwolf would've voted like you have, and I concluded that she could have.

Although, if it helps, your obvious dislike of people referring to your not very wolf-full voting record kind of speaks for your innocence.

Gotta run as soon as I finish eating! I'll be back.


edit: xed with Agan

[Thinlómien]

Originally Posted by Agan

As for winty, I think it's better to ignore him, regardless of his role, until he starts to post more. And if somebody tries to lynch him today "just to be on the safe side," they are either wolves or stupid. Because we just can't afford to check people out, at least as long as we don't know if there's one or two wolves.

Totally agreed, btw...

[Aganzir]

Originally Posted by Thinlómien

The times I have won as a wolf were the ones when me and my fellows stuck together, not when we voted each other.

And the games I've won as a wolf were those in which I voted for all of my fellows who were lynched... I have acted to save a fellow from the gallows once, and that was when we were one day away from victory.

Although, if it helps, your obvious dislike of people referring to your not very wolf-full voting record kind of speaks for your innocence.

Yeah I know I've played badly but do you have to keep flaunting it at me? I would be better as a wolf.

Anyway I should go now.

++Nerwen

Because at least I have a case against her instead of a vague bad feeling. But I'm by no means convinced, not only because she has looked better of late but because some others have started to worry me too. I might be back later but I wouldn't count on it...

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Originally Posted by Thinlómien

There's something eerie about Legate's few recent posts. He doesn't even bother to acknowledge the points against him, and he uses his time in looking at Skip's posts and basically saying nothing about them... Don't like it at all.

Well I wanted to post just my initial thoughts at the moment and then after doing some work, and hopefully also when others have posted too, post more. Anyway, as for points against me, there has been only very general "he is suspicious" by Loslote with no particular evidence to respond to or the "evidence" is so subjective that it can be hardly commented on. That said, Lottie, that's basically what I can say to your case - whereas in any case I would warn you (although maybe it should be somebody else to tell you so as you might not take me seriously after building the case) not to get too enthusiastic about pursuing some lynch just because you suddenly get a brilliant idea - we've seen this many times.

Okay, and actually looking back, only now have I noticed this post of Nerwen's:

Originally Posted by Nerwen

To answer my own question:

I think it's because, with 20/20 hindsight, that was quite an obvious slip on the part of our Ranger. My feeling is that an innocent's reaction would be to say, "Oh yes, that must be it," or at least "I wouldn't be surprised", whereas when you're a wolf and have eaten someone for what were to you perfectly sound and logical reason, the theories the villagers come up with often seem completely out the window.

With that in mind, Legate's last couple of posts could fit the pattern of a Legwolf going "Huh?" at the "outlandish" motives I'd ascribed to him, then realising it was actually in his best interests to play along.

Of course this is all extremely subjective and depends entirely on assumptions about how people would act, whether the Cursed has been found or not, etc. So I'm not claiming it's a particularly useful observation, or anything.

EDIT: IMPORTANT THIS POST WAS MADE AFTER LEGATE's AT #916. CANNOT EXPLAIN THIS!

Indeed! As I didn't see this post either, so I assume it had to be ABOVE my post. I am pretty certain though that when I was quoting Nerwen (my 917 below), there has been only my post 916 and her post which I am quoting in there... which actually... HEY? WHERE IS IT??? Where did it go?? THAT DOES NOT MAKE ANY SENSE!

Did you edit your post, Nerwen????? Or what???? (And for that matter, I haven't seen her current 914 either! None of the two posts up there, 914 or 915! And where did that one I quoted go???)

Eurgh, totally weird. But I have basically replied to this - why I thought it farfetched and then after reviewing it not - (in the post where I quoted Nerwen's original 914 question which later disappeared), so there is no reason to start about that again.

EDIT: x-ed with Agan

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

I have once again somewhat double-feeling about Agan from the last posts. Generally, I think it looks in some way innocent, in the way she acts, like that she will be subtly rousing more suspicion against Lommy or something had she been a Wolf. On the other hand, maybe she's just sort of "in defense" and making a "passive resistence" (in such a case, however, one would wonder what she would do, as a Wolf, if Nerwen was lynched and innocent. On the other hand, she might probably find another lynch target). Okay, the post where she sort of "half-joke" (well, it's not like a joke, but it is in a bit of a light tone, it seems to me) suspects practically everybody, could be seen as a basis for eventually developing a serious suspicion for somebody of those listed later, but it's a bit too obvious or bold, sort of... on the other hand, okay, at least the second word in connection to Aganzir does not help much. But basically... okay, maybe if I think about the kills... I wonder whether Aganwolf wouldn't be a bit more daring in killing people; on the other hand, if there have been other packmembers until quite recently and now maybe... hmm, well, maybe if she was just looking for the Cursed among the quieter people? (And possibly for Ranger toNight, which could be related to her dismissing that idea now - although again, not sure if it will be of much good to her, wouldn't it be better just to stay put?)

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Originally Posted by Legate of Amon Lanc

Did you edit your post, Nerwen????? Or what???? (And for that matter, I haven't seen her current 914 either! None of the two posts up there, 914 or 915! And where did that one I quoted go???)

By the way, note - it occured to me: didn't you by any chance edit your post instead of quoting mine or instead of posting a new one or something like that... because that's the only logical explanation I can come up with (like, that would explain why your post is missing there - you have "overwritten" it with this one, which would explain why it is before, and not after my post).

Whatever... is anybody else around?

[Nerwen]

Originally Posted by Aganzir

Nerwen, why don't you suspect me? This is a weird question, I know, but I'm curious.

I didn't say I don't suspect you. I'm just not convinced you're a wolf– certainly not enough to find this post of Lommy's or this all that reassuring.

Now, let me present

NERWEN'S INFALLIBLE CAST-IRON ARGUMENTS FOR WHY EVERYONE IS A WOLF.

In no particular order:

Aganzir– I don't see what Aganwolf would have to gain by pursuing me to the extent she has, (unless she's trying to revive the old "witch-hunt" technique, but that would be foolhardy). Still, not only does she have a bad voting record, she has the gall to try and use that as evidence for her innocence. I mean, really.

Legate– Smooth to the point of being slippery (as always, mind you), puts up what might be subtle defences of all three known wolves, seems very opportunistic in his voting and suspicions.

Lommy– I don't really suspect her that much at all. However she's been the one pushing the idea that either Agan or I must be a wolf, and therefore that the innocence of one would prove the guilt of the other. Which I don't think follows at all, and could give the wolves a free lynch.

Brinn– voting record almost eerily good, (yes, I know, the pot addresses the kettle) possible subtle defence of Glirdan. Yeah, whatever, I already looked at her a couple of Days ago and she came up "inconclusive". Now, however, I'm starting to find her actually creepy, mainly because of this, toDay:

Originally Posted by Brinniel
Can we please lynch Nerwen toDay? I still find her suspicious and whatever her role may be, knowing it will at least ease my mind. Okay, I promise to try looking at others too to see if anyone else turns up more suspicious, but I really don't have much time toDay.

My bolding. This late in the game, with an unknown number of wolves still around, lynching me is worth it just to set her poor little mind at rest– even if I turn out innocent, it seems ("whatever her role"). Not good.
Also, picks up on the "one of them must be a wolf" meme.

Shasta– I'm not getting any bad vibes from him. However, if he's innocent his famous clairvoyant powers must be taking the week off. Meanwhile, the Night-kills have been awfully effective– almost like we're dealing with a psychic wolf...

wintywinty– Dead silence... more dead silence... even more dead silence... then turns up just before DL and votes "++theleadingcandidate. Yeah, I've suspected him all along. Or is it her?"

Finally, just for the heck of it–

Lottie– Well, it would be bloody hilarious if it turned out she was a wolf all the time and there was a secret rule gagging the remaining Shirriff. I'd laugh. Really, I would.

EDIT:X'd since Agan's vote-post.

[Nerwen]

Originally Posted by Legate of Amon Lanc

Indeed! As I didn't see this post either, so I assume it had to be ABOVE my post. I am pretty certain though that when I was quoting Nerwen (my 917 below), there has been only my post 916 and her post which I am quoting in there... which actually... HEY? WHERE IS IT??? Where did it go?? THAT DOES NOT MAKE ANY SENSE!

Did you edit your post, Nerwen????? Or what???? (And for that matter, I haven't seen her current 914 either! None of the two posts up there, 914 or 915! And where did that one I quoted go???)

No, I didn't edit my post (except to make a note of what had happened). I just replied to yours as usual.

I have met this phenomenon of posts suddenly appearing in the wrong place before, on other sites, but this is the first time I've seen it here.

EDIT: punctuation.

[Nerwen]

Oh, and one of my posts has indeed disappeared– didn't notice before. I quoted from it too. The only thing I can think of is that I might have accidentally hit "delete" in the process– but wouldn't that be marked as a deleted post?

The site went down for a while not long after that– may have something to do with it.

EDIT:Added remark.

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Originally Posted by Agan

Anyway Lommy's logic that my "horrible voting record isn't very convincing" is downright lousy, she KNOWS that if I was a wolf I would've done much better at spotting my fellows.

I don't like that you're using this as proof of your innocence, Agan, especially since it's something that can't be proven.

Originally Posted by Nerwen

But what are you two actually agreeing about? As I've said already said, it's kind of late in the game for a "just-in-case" lynch. This is probably the last Day we could lynch him to see what he is... and look how well that's been working.

My point was that, if winty is the last wolf, and wins, we can say "oh he didn't deserve to win" all we like, but it doesn't change the facts. Quite simply it bothers me that all he's been doing is bandwagoning while the rest of us argue amongst ourselves, and I think if we're ever going to do anything about him, we should do it soon. I disagree completely with Lommy and Agan in that regard.

Originally Posted by Legate

Which is sort of in contradiction, would-be showing that Skip applies different rules on himself than on others ("better him than me" vs. the latter).

Yes, but in the situation you're describing, Skip's life actually was in danger, where Nerwen wasn't in quite as dire straits, so... I'm not sure where you're going with this.

Originally Posted by Legate

Well, it just seemed to me far-fetched, but as you see, now that I have looked at skip's posts myself, I don't find it so far-fetched anymore.

Which could be a Wolf of Amon Lanc's way of backtracking after Nerwen put up too much evidence to counter? Hm.

Originally Posted by Agan

Haha I might try that some time I'm a wolf... But all in all it's generally too risky.

...Which could be an Aganwolf's way of hanging on to her "I wouldn't be so stupid" argument. Argh.

Originally Posted by Lommy

As for her, I don't like her commentary on Skip's death at all. She even herself said a wolf would pay attention to such stuff, and that's exactly what she did. It just seems too far-fetchedly precise to be innocent.

I actually sort of agree with this comment, too. It's almost as if Nerwolf is trying to prove her innocence by using her own wolfish reasoning.

Originally Posted by Agan

As for winty, I think it's better to ignore him, regardless of his role, until he starts to post more. And if somebody tries to lynch him today "just to be on the safe side," they are either wolves or stupid. Because we just can't afford to check people out, at least as long as we don't know if there's one or two wolves.

Like I already said, I disagree totally with this. Wait... I wonder how an Aganwolf/wintyCursed scenario would play out? I suppose Lommy could fit there too, instead of Agan, based on wanting to keep winty in the game... but that could just be because we disagree on what to do about him.

[Shastanis Althreduin]

To sum up... after looking at all of them, Nerwen, Legate, and Agan all have points against them... and I'm honestly not sure which are bigger! But I'd like to reiterate that I would support a winty lynch today - if he's innocent he's at most unhelpful and at least distracting, and if he's a wolf he's flying totally under the radar and going with the majority, which is a pattern I've seen from him all game.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Originally Posted by Nerwen

Aganzir– I don't see what Aganwolf would have to gain by pursuing me to the extent she has, (unless she's trying to revive the old "witch-hunt" technique, but that would be foolhardy).

Are you perchance missing a word there or something? ("she has...?")

Brinn– voting record almost eerily good, (yes, I know, the pot addresses the kettle) possible subtle defence of Glirdan. Yeah, whatever, I already looked at her a couple of Days ago and she came up "inconclusive". Now, however, I'm starting to find her actually creepy, mainly because of this, toDay:

My bolding. This late in the game, with an unknown number of wolves still around, lynching me is worth it just to set her poor little mind at rest– even if I turn out innocent, it seems ("whatever her role"). Not good.
Also, picks up on the "one of them must be a wolf" meme.

Definitely agreed that lynching somebody "just for the sake of it" is not a good idea, however, I see it that way that she just wants to lynch you AND if you are not a Wolf, she would not pity that so much - which is somewhat understandable thinking. However, certainly we should not lynch somebody for the peace of mind - we had such a liberty more or less in the last few Days, but now it is getting somewhat more dense again.

Speaking of Brinn, I have been thinking her mostly innocent before, so I am starting to think whether she could not have been slipping under my radar now, but maybe it will be best to wait for her to post and follow her to get more information about her.

In any case, this post of Nerwen's does not give me much of a good impression in general - it's rather, well, ineffective (in the sense: what is it good for?). My initial thought was being reminded of the desperate Wolves who make their last post before dying where they accuse everyone (see Sally's post before her death - basically the same, except for the famous line "Inzil is innocent, I just know it" or stuff like that). Basically this kind of mentality could be just half-resignation (which sounds almost incredible in relation to Nerwen) or just a post with no real value, making oneself a wide range of suspicion (like, right now Nerwen could vote anybody), or something like that.

Originally Posted by Nerwen

Oh, and one of my posts has indeed disappeared– didn't notice before. I quoted from it too. The only thing I can think of is that I might have accidentally hit "delete" in the process– but wouldn't that be marked as a deleted post?

The site went down for a while not long after that– may have something to do with it.

EDIT:Added remark.

Okay, whatever, that might be it.

EDIT: x-ed with two Shastas

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Originally Posted by Shastanis Althreduin

Yes, but in the situation you're describing, Skip's life actually was in danger, where Nerwen wasn't in quite as dire straits, so... I'm not sure where you're going with this.

Well, but that does not matter so much, the point is psychological. If a Wolf saw these and compared it, it might have been a signal giving him/her the idea "Ha! A special role afraid for his life!" Of course it does not have to be so, but I can imagine it as a possibility. Anyway, we are not going to learn for sure anyway, it was just a possible explanation.

Originally Posted by Shastanis Althreduin

To sum up... after looking at all of them, Nerwen, Legate, and Agan all have points against them... and I'm honestly not sure which are bigger! But I'd like to reiterate that I would support a winty lynch today - if he's innocent he's at most unhelpful and at least distracting, and if he's a wolf he's flying totally under the radar and going with the majority, which is a pattern I've seen from him all game.

Well there is still the thing that he might not just show up to vote and be modfired or something... while it's all possible that he might be an under-the-radar Wolf, right now at least from my part I will focus on those who are around, and for whom there are actually some grounds to suspect (whereas for WW there is merely his popping up and voting, which, in a way, would be enough, but then again, it's rather random too). And yes, WW does not deserve to win if he's just popping in and voting, so well... if it comes down to three people or something, and he is one of them, then it might be a hard decision, but...

Nay, right now, I am starting to grow worried of Agan a bit, especially still bearing in mind her voting list. And Nerwen's last posts have unnerved me too. Shasta has been posting generally rather unsuspiciously recently, but that might be just a good way of slipping unnoticed.

If I were to say, I'd assume the Wolf being somewhere there - or it being Winty. There is still the sort of unanswered question in the back of my head about Nerwen, she didn't look as suspicious to me yesterDay but now she again started to. It would be sort of facepalm-thing if she was the Wolf and remained alive until the last Day just because of the overturned lynch a few Days ago.

[Nerwen]

Originally Posted by Shastanis Althreduin

My point was that, if winty is the last wolf, and wins, we can say "oh he didn't deserve to win" all we like, but it doesn't change the facts. Quite simply it bothers me that all he's been doing is bandwagoning while the rest of us argue amongst ourselves, and I think if we're ever going to do anything about him, we should do it soon. I disagree completely with Lommy and Agan in that regard.

I know,and I don't like it either– if he's a wolf it's definitely borderline-cheating– but if we lynch him, I think it pretty much has to be toDay. And that would make him the third person in a row we've lynched more out of curiosity than anything.

Also, do the Night-kills really seem like the work of a clueless newbie to you? I'd guess that if winty is a wolf, we've got two. (Unless he's either very lucky, or just playing dumb.)

Originally Posted by Shastanis Althreduin

Yes, but in the situation you're describing, Skip's life actually was in danger, where Nerwen wasn't in quite as dire straits, so... I'm not sure where you're going with this.

No, actually my life was in danger at that point.

Originally Posted by Legate of Amon Lanc

Are you perchance missing a word there or something? ("she has...?")

No. What I mean is, "pursuing me to the the extent that she has". Does that make sense to you now?

Originally Posted by Legate of Amon Lanc

In any case, this post of Nerwen's does not give me much of a good impression in general - it's rather, well, ineffective (in the sense: what is it good for?). My initial thought was being reminded of the desperate Wolves who make their last post before dying where they accuse everyone (see Sally's post before her death - basically the same, except for the famous line "Inzil is innocent, I just know it" or stuff like that).

You meanthis post? Where Sally is at pains to say basically nothing about anyone? (Except Zil.)

No, Legate it's not at all like that. Sally was a wolf who was very likely trying to look like the Seer. I'm an innocent who is trying to sort things out for myself by listing the points against each player. Not bad points, either, I think.

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Originally Posted by Nerwen

No, actually my life was in danger at that point.

I wasn't disputing that, but you dying at that point would have required a concerted effort by three different people (I think), and Skip was already tied for the lead at the time he voted (again, if I'm wrong, correct me ).

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Originally Posted by Nerwen

No. What I mean is, "pursuing me to the the extent that she has". Does that make sense to you now?

Ah, okay. Now I get it.

You meanthis post? Where Sally is at pains to say basically nothing about anyone? (Except Zil.)

No, Legate it's not at all like that. Sally was a wolf who was very likely trying to look like the Seer. I'm an innocent who is trying to sort things out for myself by listing the points against each player. Not bad points, either, I think.

Okay, point taken. But even with that Sally's posts, Wolves do things like that in general (and often in far subtler ways, of course).

That said, the fact that you don't want to lynch ww, even though it might be a possible candidate with some support, makes you again look better in my eyes... unless you two are comrades now... I would expect a Wolf to be a lot more open to a possible lynch, especially if under suspicion.

[Brinniel]

I think you guys are misunderstanding my lynching Nerwen to "ease my mind" comment. I don't want to lynch her out of curiousity. I am suspicious of her and have reasons to be. Lately some of Nerwen's behaviour has made me to slightly doubt my suspicion, but then again Nerwen can be a very clever wolf...she has won as a lone wolf before and looked completely innocent up until the end. If I allow her not-so-suspicious behaviour convince me not to vote her, then I'm afraid we'll later find out she is a wolf and lose because I didn't vote her. I would never forgive myself...and would probably end up smashing my head against the wall until it explodes. If Nerwen is lynched and turns out innocent, yeah that really sucks, but I wouldn't be killing myself over voting her because I did, after all, find her wolfish.

Btw, I will not support a winty lynch. I'm not saying he can't be a wolf, but it seems much more unlikely, and I do not want another Day with an easy lynch that could get us nowhere. If we lynch winty and he's innocent, then we've basically lost the game because we'll be in the same position toMorrow as we are toDay.

I have class in ten minutes and don't have much time to say more. I won't be back until less than an hour before deadline, so I'm afraid you won't be hearing a lot from me. I do wish I could look at everyone better because I'm feeling paranoid as of late, but I just don't have the time.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

I think I might vote and go soon. I have been waking up early today and I'm already getting slightly tired. If I knew when exactly is Lommy going to return, I would wait at least for her or somebody to post before I go to sleep, but this way I might just call it off...

After recent posts of Nerwen, I will be even more inclined to vote Agan than her, because Agan now seems like a more likely Wolf to me. She has just reached the limit of my suspicions and she behaves especially toDay a bit more careful than I think she has before. (It might be that it seems to me because the arguing has been reduced, but still it's there.) Of course especially for a lonely Aganwolf or an Aganwolf with a well-hidden packmate it will be rather easy and merry environment to move in, I am sure. She also seems to be opening herself slowly to new things and in general sort of having the back door (for the case if Nerwen is lynched and innocent?), like in the post where she lists some people, or here:

Originally Posted by Aganzir

I'm trying to decide whether I should stick with my earlier suspicions (I have bad experiences of letting go of pursuing a wolf because they began to look more innocent) or vote for somebody who I haven't been suspicious of before (mainly Lommy but also Legate & Brinn, to an extent)...

Heck this is so frustrating.

That "frustrating" part also makes me wonder if it's genuine. I am just now getting this creepy picture of Aganwolf into my head. In either case, even if we have a Cursed, I find it extremely unlikely that both of Aganzir and Nerwen are Wolves. I would right now say that Agan is a bit, little tiny bit, higher than Nerwen - probably by that one post made by Nerwen a while ago - in my suspicions.

Of course I can sympathise with Brinn's feelings concerning having Nerwen haunting the place around, however, if this was the last Day and I was to decide right now, like "put your bets on one person", then I would say Agan.

Okay. Let me think about it for a while yet, let's see if anybody posts or posted, and then I will just vote. Urgh.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Okay. Nobody seems to be around... and if I am to be decisive... let it be so.

++Aganzir

I am really getting sleepy, so... good night, folks. And let's hope we do it right this time and celebrate after this.

[Aganzir]

I made it here after all but I'm still at my friend's place and can't hang around here for long.

Originally Posted by Shastanis Althreduin

My point was that, if winty is the last wolf, and wins, we can say "oh he didn't deserve to win" all we like, but it doesn't change the facts.

And if he's lynched an innocent, the last wolf/wolves are a step closer to victory because his death doesn't really reveal anything about anyone. At least in so far as I can see. And if he is innocent and the wolves manage to lynch him today and win tomorrow, well, good job.

Originally Posted by Legate of Amon Lanc

If I knew when exactly is Lommy going to return,

She's outside of the apartment, busy being a game master. So I assume it's going to take her at least an hour to get home, maybe more.

Originally Posted by Legate

she behaves especially toDay a bit more careful than I think she has before.

Because I've been far busier today than on any other day perchance?

My selfish part would love to be lynched (or night-killed, for that matter). At least I wouldn't have to worry about who to lynch tomorrow. But I suppose it's sort of my duty to stay alive for now... being innocent and all!
You are of course free to lynch me, but I doubt it will reveal much because my innocence doesn't mean that Nerwen must be a wolf or anything...

Oh and now I know why I'm feeling uneasy about Brinn. She looks too good and sensible.

[Aganzir]

Originally Posted by Legate of Amon Lanc

And let's hope we do it right this time and celebrate after this.

That's an awfully forced-looking, creepy comment. And it has nothing to do with the fact that you voted for me.

[Thinlómien]

I'm here, just a few comments, check if I cross-posted and then vote.

Originally Posted by Nerwen

Lommy– I don't really suspect her that much at all. However she's been the one pushing the idea that either Agan or I must be a wolf, and therefore that the innocence of one would prove the guilt of the other. Which I don't think follows at all, and could give the wolves a free lynch.

I don't claim either of you has to be a wolf, or that one being innocent proves the other one must be guilty. Not at all. I just personally suspect you two the most by far and can't quite decide which one of you more, so if one of you dies, I will be (most likely) next trying my other top suspect. Does that make sense?

Originally Posted by Shasta

Wait... I wonder how an Aganwolf/wintyCursed scenario would play out? I suppose Lommy could fit there too, instead of Agan, based on wanting to keep winty in the game... but that could just be because we disagree on what to do about him.

Well, I know you can't take my word for it, but if I was Winty's fellow, I would feel like cheating if I was telling people to ignore him because of his small amount of participation.

And as for him, I agree with Brinn - we can't really afford lynching him right now, or we will be more or less in the same point as in the beginning of this Day and I also predict several players will feel like giving up. I know Winty can be a wolf and can be slipping under everybody's radar, but like somebody said about lynching Nerwen, this is not really the point when we can lynch people just to be on the safe side, especially as we already did that yesterDay with Mira.

Originally Posted by Legate

That said, the fact that you don't want to lynch ww, even though it might be a possible candidate with some support, makes you again look better in my eyes... unless you two are comrades now... I would expect a Wolf to be a lot more open to a possible lynch, especially if under suspicion.

That's really no proof, because even if she didn't say she suspected Winty, she could vote him later to save herself and look no worse because of that (although this game starts to be in the point where innocent Nerwen might do the village a favour by going felagund ...)

[Thinlómien]

++NERWEN

remains my top suspect. We had seriously better get her lynched this time around, although we will undoubtedly feel stupid whatever she turns out to be.

Aganzir I'm still torn about. My feelings about her go like a rollercoaster, I can't quite make up my mind. And yes, I will really look at her more closely if Nerwen turns out innocent. (Or maybe even if she turns out guilty and the game continues because somehow a Nerwolf + Agan-cursed scenario doesn't sound as unlikely as you could fathom... )

Legate feels a bit more innocent now, although if we lynch Nerwen toDay and she turns out innocent, I'd look at him and how he smoothly backed away instead of bloodying his pretty little hands. But generally he seems honest and sort of genuinely confusedly wishy-washyish. I'm not too worries - for now.

I believe I have said enough about Winty. I also hope he comes around and posts more. Now that the amount of participants and posts has dropped substantially, maybe he'll find it easier.

Lastly, I still think Brinn and Shasta innocent. I don't think a wolf-Brinn would so ruthlessly have voted all her fellows and her tone seems genuine. Like I've said before, I can't really see Shasta as fellows with Sally or Nogrod, so I feel pretty safe in assuming him innocent, especially as he seems innocent generally too (although we do disagree on everything ).

That's all from me toDay, it'll be 2am here soon and I have to wake up at 7... eww.

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Originally Posted by Brinn

Btw, I will not support a winty lynch. I'm not saying he can't be a wolf, but it seems much more unlikely, and I do not want another Day with an easy lynch that could get us nowhere. If we lynch winty and he's innocent, then we've basically lost the game because we'll be in the same position toMorrow as we are toDay.

Why is it "much more unlikely", Brinn?

And Lommy, I personally thought there were points against Mira yesterday - I don't think her lynch was "just in case". Winty's probably would be, but what if he is the wolf? That's what I'm trying to get you guys to see.

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Alright, I have to leave for a meeting. I may be back, but then I may not, I don't have any idea how long it's going to last.

With no one willing to vote Legate, apparently, my choices are down to Agan or Nerwen... and I honestly haven't seen that great of a defense from Agan.

++Aganzir

[Nerwen]

Originally Posted by Shastanis Althreduin

Why is it "much more unlikely", Brinn?

And Lommy, I personally thought there were points against Mira yesterday - I don't think her lynch was "just in case". Winty's probably would be, but what if he is the wolf? That's what I'm trying to get you guys to see.

No, I do see it, and in the end I'd rather lynch winty to see what he is, than be lynched myself to see what I am.

However, the trouble is that I'm close to 100% sure there's a wolf (or maybe two, who knows?) in the group Legate, Lommy, Agan and Brinn. (Yes, I'm definitely including Lommy now– look at the opportunism of her vote-post there.) The reasoning is simple: I don't see how I could find myself headed for the gallows again if there wasn't a fair bit of wolfish string-pulling going on.

I mean, what exactly am I supposed to have done? Not even they can tell you, not really.

I actually am reminded of the "witch-hunt" tactic– you know, how wolves used to openly target an innocent, demanding "explanations" for literally everything he said, no matter how trivial, then claiming his reaction was "defensive" and "clearly wolfish"? Hasn't been used much lately, mainly because people caught on that pretty much only wolves did it. But I was the one who pointed out that wolf-tactics are cyclic. But then it could as easily be Lommy or Legate leading from behind.

EDIT:X'd with Shasta.
EDIT2:typo.

[Loslote]

Originally Posted by Shastanis Althreduin

Alright, I have to leave for a meeting. I may be back, but then I may not, I don't have any idea how long it's going to last.

With no one willing to vote Legate, apparently, my choices are down to Agan or Nerwen... and I honestly haven't seen that great of a defense from Agan.

[*highlight]++Aganzir[/highlight*]

If you get back in time, and if you have your retractable still, I'm aboslutely willing to vote Legate, and absolutely NOT willing to vote Agan.

[wilwarin538]

Agan -> Nerwen
Legate -> Agan
Lommy -> Nerwen (2)
Shasta -> Agan (2)

[Loslote]

Tied at two apiece? This reminds me of yesterDay, and not in a good way.

That said...

++Legate

with potential retraction if needed, for posting a lot without actually saying much of anything, and for subtly defending the wolves who were going to be lynched with out committing, and for general non-commiting behavior.

[wintywinty]

People have wondered as to why I am so quiet and show up to only make a few posts and then vote. I am very busy, I participate in two after-school activities, plus school (I'm in a rigorous IB program, where I have homework everyday.) I have just enough time to get home, read all the posts that have happened in the past day, decide who makes the best arguments against who, and by that time there's less than 10 or 15 minutes left before I must vote. I'd like to continue playing the game, but I do not have the time to post much. Besides yesterday, I think I have contributed with a few posts everyday. Today, It seems to me as if Agan, Lommy, and Brinniel seem very innocent. I am not sure about Nerwen, and Shasta and Legate seem the most suspicious to me. By the way, I am innocent, so voting me would waste a lynching for the village.

[Brinniel]

I have less time than expected so I really will have to vote soon.

Ugh, what's so frustrating is that you guys happened to lynch two of the people I found most innocent of the bunch. If we had lynched Nerwen already, then I wouldn't still be stuck on her (and it's bad that I am because I should look at others too). Even if Agan was lynched yesterDay, I would've preferred that over Mira because at least her death would provide some more information, regardless of role.

If winty somehow gets lynched and turns out innocent, I will have to smack anyone responsible...hard. I would prefer just about anyone else over him because there are so many other players whose death would reveal more than winty's.

Legate is someone I'm growing increasingly worried about, but I need to look at him better before throwing any real suspicion at him. Agan and Lommy too, to a lesser extent. I don't think Lommy's the fourth wolf, but if the cursed has indeed been turned, then I think there's a chance she could be just that. Again, I don't have time to do any analysing, so I'd rather lynch Nerwen now, so I don't have to worry about the others unless she's actually innocent, or if she is a wolf but the cursed is still out there (unless she's the cursed, then vice versa).

[Nerwen]

Originally Posted by Loslote

If you get back in time, and if you have your retractable still, I'm aboslutely willing to vote Legate, and absolutely NOT willing to vote Agan.

I'm willing to vote either of them, and not just to save myself– see my last post.

However– why are you so sure Agan is innocent, Lottie?

EDIT:X'd with Brinn and wintywinty

[Brinniel]

Originally Posted by winty

People have wondered as to why I am so quiet and show up to only make a few posts and then vote. I am very busy, I participate in two after-school activities, plus school (I'm in a rigorous IB program, where I have homework everyday.) I have just enough time to get home, read all the posts that have happened in the past day, decide who makes the best arguments against who, and by that time there's less than 10 or 15 minutes left before I must vote. I'd like to continue playing the game, but I do not have the time to post much. Besides yesterday, I think I have contributed with a few posts everyday. Today, It seems to me as if Agan, Lommy, and Brinniel seem very innocent. I am not sure about Nerwen, and Shasta and Legate seem the most suspicious to me. By the way, I am innocent, so voting me would waste a lynching for the village.

That's perfectly understandable, as a lot of us are very busy around here. But perhaps you should mention that in the admin thread so people don't suspect you for not being around much.

P.S. This post from winty looks genuine to me.

[Loslote]

Originally Posted by Nerwen

I'm willing to vote either of them, and not just to save myself– see my last post.

However– why are you so sure Agan is innocent, Lottie?

She's acted genuinely frustrated and innocent, plus she hasn't acted suspiciously at all. She makes good points and contributes helpfully to the village. Even if I wasn't so sure I wouldn't want her dead. Agan, Brinn, and Shasta are the three people I trust most right now. The rest of you I'm not so sure about.

[Nerwen]

Originally Posted by Brinniel

P.S. This post from winty looks genuine to me.

Agreed.

Originally Posted by Loslote

She's acted genuinely frustrated and innocent, plus she hasn't acted suspiciously at all.

Really? May I refer you to her voting record? But actually I don't find that very suspicious in itself– I'm not so keen, though, on the way she keeps insisting it's actually proof of innocence. Thing is, Agan is pretty hard to read, for the opposite reason to Legate or Brinn– she's a very aggressive player who tends to go all out to lynch people, whatever her role.

[Loslote]

Originally Posted by Nerwen

Really? May I refer you to her voting record? But actually I don't find that very suspicious in itself– I'm not so keen, though, on the way she keeps insisting it's actually proof of innocence. Thing is, Agan is pretty hard to read, for the opposite reason to Legate or Brinn– she's a very aggressive player who tends to go all out to lynch people, whatever her role.

I don't think that's suspicious. And she's not really insisting, just defending herself. People bring it up; they say it's susicious; she explains why it's not. I don't have a problem with this.