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Old 12-11-2000, 04:01 AM   #1
Orald
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i don't really remember this, but i was looking through some old posts and someone said something about giants being in the Hobbit. what is that about, is that wrong, or were there? where did they come from and were they evil? pardon me, but i am a little rusty on the Hobbit. any thoughts would be helpful.

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Old 12-11-2000, 04:04 AM   #2
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Re: Giants in the Hobbit

giants, not giats, but all of you probably realize that.

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Old 12-11-2000, 04:05 PM   #3
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Re: Giats in the Hobbit

I too always wondered about this. Perhaps Giants are some kind of super-troll. However, this seems unlikely, especially as I remember Gandalf talking about trying to find 'a more or less decent giant' or something. I suspect that Giants are just one of those things in The Hobbit that don't quite fit in with the rest of Middle Earth. A bit like Beorn, really. Certainly I have never heard Giants mentioned anywhere else in Tolkien's works. If anyone has, please tell me where.


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Old 12-11-2000, 04:42 PM   #4
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Re: Giats in the Hobbit

Book of Lost Tales.
Entries: Nan and Gilim.

The only two giants known by name I believe.

In BoLT there is a descriptive comparison of the giant Nan as being like an elm.
I mentioned previously about the origins of the Ettenmoors as the original location for the Entish lands.
The postulation was not without some semblance of substance; as to Giants being originally created as Ents.
I even mentioned the similarity of ent and giant (gi-ent; see also etten).

After the creation of Ents, the giants seem to have vanished.

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Old 12-11-2000, 05:26 PM   #5
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Re: Giants in the Hobbit

i also remember something in the beginning of LotR. Tolkien said something about giants in the beginning of the fellowship. i am not sure, but were they entwives or were they actually giants

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Old 12-11-2000, 06:50 PM   #6
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Re: Giants in the Hobbit

The description Sam gave was 'a giant, a walking-tree, up away beyond the water'. I'm guessing Entwife; though that may just be because I've always felt sorry for the Ents and hoped that the Entwives could be found in Eriador.

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Old 12-12-2000, 03:59 AM   #7
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Re: Giants in the Hobbit

No giants in the Hobbit but after they got throught the mountains, Gandald said he neede to get a decent giant to block uo that entrance.
Otherwise I don't remember them being mentioned anywhere in Middle-earth.

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Old 12-12-2000, 08:31 AM   #8
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Re: Giants in the Hobbit

During the crossing of the Misty Mountains, Bilbo and the dwarves are drenched by a thunderstorm. During the storm, JRRT mentions that the &quot;Stone Giants&quot; are out, tossing boulders at each other and on the mountains. Someone worried about being picked up by a giant and being &quot;kicked for a football&quot; if I recall.

This is a little piece of the Hobbit which doesn't fit with LoTR. As Saulotus commented, giants were present in early conceptions of Middle Earth.

The reference to giants can be &quot;explained&quot; through Bilbo's inexperience with the world. If you want to &quot;make it fit&quot;, you can assume that the company saw mountain or stone trolls and Bilbo, not knowing what they were, called them &quot;giants&quot; in the Red Book.

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Old 12-12-2000, 07:21 PM   #9
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<img src="http://www.barrowdowns.com/images/posticons/onering.jpg" align=absmiddle> Re: Giants in the Hobbit

Could've been Hill-trolls out for the night. They certainly fit the description of &quot;giant&quot;. As to the &quot;more or less decent giant&quot; that Gandalf needed to block up the Goblin-cave, probably an Ent. Both are giant-size creatures, with immense strength.


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Old 12-13-2000, 02:08 AM   #10
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<img src="http://www.barrowdowns.com/images/posticons/onering.jpg" align=absmiddle> Re: Giants in the Hobbit

But wouldn't have Bilbo realized this since his run in with the Stone Trolls. I don't think hill and stone trolls look that much different. Plus it was Gandalf that said this. So it would be relative to Bilbo's size. Another thing to ask, do giants not come up anywhere HoME?

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Old 12-13-2000, 03:24 AM   #11
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<img src="http://www.barrowdowns.com/images/posticons/bluepal.jpg" align=absmiddle> Re: Giants in the Hobbit

Gandalf was perhaps referring to ents as giants since he knew the term would confuse and befuddle the not-so-knowledgable dwarves and the hobbit. As for Bilbo, he probably referred to the stone trolls as giants, not in the creature sense, but in the 'oh that's massive' sense. As in-that wrestler is a giant.
Ooooh...am I very incoherent?

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Old 12-13-2000, 04:37 AM   #12
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<img src="http://www.barrowdowns.com/images/posticons/bluepal.jpg" align=absmiddle> giants

Here we are, finding reasons about why Gandalf mentioned Giants in the hobbit. Tolkien wrote the hobbit first, and then linked it to his other first-Age stories, if I recall correctly. I suppose tolkien abandoned the giant idea after he wrote lotr, but forgot to change it in a revised edition. After all, only two sentences mention the giants.

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Old 12-13-2000, 10:12 AM   #13
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<img src="http://www.barrowdowns.com/images/posticons/bluepal.jpg" align=absmiddle> Re: giants

you changed your name back?


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Old 12-13-2000, 05:28 PM   #14
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<img src="http://www.barrowdowns.com/images/posticons/wight.jpg" align=absmiddle> Thorin quote

Personly I think that Thorin would know the difference. And he said, in the incident which Mithadan mentioned, I quote
&quot;This won't do at all!&quot; said Thorin &quot;If we don't get blown off, or drowned, or struck by lighning, we shall be picked up by some giant and kick sky-high for a football.&quot;


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Old 12-13-2000, 07:55 PM   #15
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<img src="http://www.barrowdowns.com/images/posticons/wight.jpg" align=absmiddle> Re: Thorin quote

But remember that the words spoken by Thorin (and everyone in the story) were written as recalled (or made up) by Bilbo.

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Old 12-14-2000, 08:47 AM   #16
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<img src="http://www.barrowdowns.com/images/posticons/bluepal.jpg" align=absmiddle> Re: Thorin quote

I think Quam is quite right. When Tolkien wrote the revised edition he probably forgot to tie up that loose end.

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Old 12-15-2000, 08:33 AM   #17
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<img src="http://www.barrowdowns.com/images/posticons/bluepal.jpg" align=absmiddle> Re: Thorin quote

somehow, that day glornan didn't really work(dunno why). now it does, as you can see<img src=smile.gif ALT="">



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Old 12-15-2000, 01:10 PM   #18
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<img src="http://www.barrowdowns.com/images/posticons/bluepal.jpg" align=absmiddle> Re: Thorin quote

A very good topic... Giants are mentioned in the Hobbit, but nowhere else (except for the Lost Tales). No word of their creation in the Sil...


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Old 12-16-2000, 06:47 AM   #19
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<img src="http://www.barrowdowns.com/images/posticons/onering.jpg" align=absmiddle> Re: Thorin quote

<blockquote>Quote:<hr> But wouldn't have Bilbo realized this since his run in with the Stone Trolls. I don't think hill and stone trolls look that much different. Plus it was Gandalf that said this. So it would be relative to Bilbo's size. Another thing to ask, do giants not come up anywhere HoME?<hr></blockquote>

Still, it was night time in a storm. And Trolls are around 14 feet tall. That size, at night in a storm would be aptly called a giant.


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Old 12-18-2000, 02:17 AM   #20
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<img src="http://www.barrowdowns.com/images/posticons/onering.jpg" align=absmiddle> Re: Gwaihirs comment on entwives

Gwaihir you said that the &quot;giants like walking trees&quot; in the description of Sam in the FotR&quot; could be Entwives. i often wondered about Sam's description and I too thought that it could be an entwife until i read the part of Treebeards tale of the entwives again. entwives didnt look like ents, they were bent and brown and had red faces and turned their thoughts to fruit and not to trees, so i guess they were quite different from Ents. mabye this Giant in Sam's tale could have been an Ent looking for the entwives, but i guess thats not very likely because if not even Treebeard did know were the Shire was, how should the other ents?

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Old 12-18-2000, 07:47 AM   #21
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<img src="http://www.barrowdowns.com/images/posticons/onering.jpg" align=absmiddle> Re: Gwaihirs comment on entwives

than it must have been unquiet guorn looking for his sleeping pills, those that he lost somewhere (poor thingy) <img src=wink.gif ALT="">

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