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Old 04-25-2002, 07:39 PM   #1
Lossenavariel
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Sting Goblins, Orcs, and Arwen

Hello, I was wondering what the difference between a goblin and a orc is, and I thought you guys would know. I was also wondering who Arwen's parents are.
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Old 04-25-2002, 07:43 PM   #2
Tigerlily Gamgee
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Silmaril

I am not sure what the difference between orcs and goblins are. I always took them being the same thing.
As for Arwen's parents: Elrond and Celebrian (daughter of Galadriel and Celeborn)
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Old 04-26-2002, 04:49 AM   #3
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Silmaril

i always thought goblins and orcs were the same race too, although i did read (somewhere) that goblins were smaller and generally weaker, like tribes that lived in the mountains instead of the ones bred specifically for war
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Old 04-26-2002, 06:38 AM   #4
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Sting

I was told that
Quote:
...goblin is just the term used in The Hobbit and early LotR. There is no difference really, but in modern fantasy, goblins are smaller and of a lighter build than Orcs.
And Arwen as said in the previous post... is Elrond and Celebrian's daughter. Celebrian is Galadriel and Celeborn's daughter... making Arwen their granddaughter. [img]smilies/tongue.gif[/img]
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Old 04-26-2002, 10:20 AM   #5
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Sting

There is a very neat little site caled the Hypertextualized Tolkien, which has answers to questions like this...all backed up with proof. They say that Orcs and Goblins are the same thing. My own personal theory is that Orcs from Mordor are more likely to be called Orcs, while orcs from elsewhere are more likely to be called Goblins. however, I have no reason for thinking that...so I might be very very wrong.
anyhoo...here's the site http://www.daimi.aau.dk/~bouvin/tolkienfaq.ht
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Old 04-26-2002, 10:42 AM   #6
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Tolkien

Orc is not an English word. It occurs in one or two places but is usually translated goblin (or hobgoblin fot he larger kinds). Orc is the hobbits' form of the name given at that time to these creatures, and it is not connected at all with orc, ork, applied to sea-animals of dolphin-kind. - The Hobbit

Orcs (the word is as far as I am concerned actually derived from Old English orc 'demon', but only because of its phonetic suitability) are nowhere clearly stated to be of any particular origin. But since they are servants of the Dark Power, and later of Sauron, neither of whom could, or would, produce living things, they must be 'corruptions'. They are not based on direct experience of mine; but owe, I suppose, a good deal to the goblin tradition (goblin is used as a translation in The Hobbit, where orc only occurs once, I think), especially as it appears in George MacDonald, except for the soft feet which I never believed in. The name has the form orch (pl. yrch) in Sindarin and uruk in the Black Speech. - Tolkien letter 144 To Naomi Mitchison
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Old 04-26-2002, 12:06 PM   #7
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Sting

Half hobbit: I think your might be mistaken on your theory about the name orc coming exclusively from mordor and goblins are from elsewhere. For in The Sil. it says that orcs where first made at Utumno, and they were even called orcs when they occupied Angband. But I think someone said it best in a previous line that. Goblins were from the Hobbit and orcs are from LOTR. I personally believe that goblin by nature is a less "scary" word then orc and being that "The Hobbit" was more of a childrens book it is only fitting that Tolkien used Goblin instead of orc. And since the first drafts of the Simarillian were found all the way back to 1917 with the word orc in it I feel that the "kid" aspect is the only reason he used Goblin instead of orc.
And while I'm on the subject of child phychology I might as well add this as well. Goblin is a more widely used and defined term then orc, and since The Hobbit being a kids book is aimed at their growing minds Tolkien may of wanted to use the simpliest explanation necessary.

Just my thoughts I guess...
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Old 04-26-2002, 12:11 PM   #8
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Sting

I thought Sauron (or some one like him) tortured elfes and thats how the Orcs were "made", I'm pretty sure that's what is said about them in FOTR.
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Old 04-26-2002, 05:46 PM   #9
Lossenavariel
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Sting

Thank you guys!!! [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]
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Old 04-27-2002, 05:54 PM   #10
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Sting

Orcs were originally elves. There were some elves who in the first Age after their awakening, before they really had any idea of what he was, were captured by Melkor. Melkor tortured and twisted and corrupted them into what we know as orcs. Then again, Sauron - Melkor's right hand - "evolved" them further, like e.g. the Uruk-Hai.
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