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Old 09-11-2002, 05:01 PM   #1
InklingElf
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Sting Tolkien, Lewis & Theology

February19,2003: Now, before you go to burden yourself by clicking the link to the current page-you don't have to. From now on all new topics will be posted on the first post (but it's better if you look at the current page too 'cause that's where all the replies are at). Here is the New Topic, posted on February 18 '03:

What if it happened? What if his stories came true? According to Tolkien it has:
Quote:
"I would venture to say that approaching the Chrsitian story from this direction, it has long been my feeling (a joyous feeling) that God redeemed the corrupt making-creatures, men, in a way fitting to this aspect, as to others, of their strange nature. The Gospels contain a fairy-sotry, or a story of a larger kind which embraces all the essence of fairy-stories...But this story has entered History and the primary world; the desire and aspiration of subcreation has been raised to the fulfillment of Creation."

Lewis put it this way:

Quote:
"The heart of Christianity is a myth which is also a fact...It happens-at a particular date, in a particular place, followed by definable historical consequences...By becoming fact it does not cease to be myth: that is the miracle."

Two great authors have stated their opinion. Do you agree or disagree? Why?


---------------------------------------------
Old Topic from September11,2002:
...Many people of cultures-Pagan, Christian or non-christian have always thought of Tolkien's writing to be made of 'pure genious'-I thought so but many people don't understand the fact the Tolkien tried to express Theology in his books...I read the trilogy and the silmaraillion and the trilogy time and time again-with the companion of Finding God in the Lord of the Rings-and understood everything.

[ February 19, 2003: Message edited by: InklingElf ]
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Old 09-11-2002, 05:13 PM   #2
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Welcome to the Downs, InklingElf. I haven't read the companion, and am a long-term opposer of appropriation of the LotR for one religion above another. But have people here considered the theological implications of the LotR and Tolkien's works? Possibly. LOL [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]

You may be interested in one of our longer-running threads. Unfortunately it lost several pages of posts at one point due to a technical glitch. Bible and Trilogy

-Maril

[ September 11, 2002: Message edited by: Marileangorifurnimaluim ]
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Old 09-11-2002, 05:19 PM   #3
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ThankYou very much!I shall go there very soon
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Old 09-11-2002, 05:32 PM   #4
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Here are two more great topics about Tolkien and Religion.

Unintentional Religion in Tolkien's works?

....and Consciously So in the Revision
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Old 09-11-2002, 05:44 PM   #5
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Like I said, it could be that there is some interest in the subject. *tongue firmly in cheek.*

You have stumbled onto a Tolkien group that has an unusually high percentage of Christians posting. I believe it's the policy banning Slash that is responsible. Of course, who am I to tease our Christian friends - I was an ordained Buddhist nun for 14 years. Anyways, enjoy, and do take time to introduce yourself to mark12_30, Bethberry, Child of the 7th Age, Gandalf the Grey and of course, Joy... some of our more erudite Christians on the board. [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]

-Maril
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Old 09-11-2002, 06:04 PM   #6
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Tolkien

thank you-I shall introduce myself soon [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]
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Old 09-11-2002, 06:12 PM   #7
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Maril, were you the sort of Buddhist nun who wandered through small towns in search of your half-sister, looking out for the weak and helpless, kicking the butts of local tyrants with a bare minimum of physical effort, and tossing off the occasional laconic homily with exquisite minimilastic restraint along the way? Or, erm, the other kind? Inquiring minds want to know. [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img]

Zoiks! I'm off-topic. Um, reflections of his deeply held beliefs, yes; allegory, no.
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Old 09-11-2002, 06:16 PM   #8
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hmmm ::looks at Mister Underhill and Maril:: I'm curious too
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Old 09-11-2002, 06:17 PM   #9
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Inklingelf..Welcome welcome!! pleasure to see a new member..its a pleasure to see a thread like this and people not getting upset and agitated [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]...I just came from a forum and I had a huge debate about Tolkien and theology (it was really tense)...There are several books on this topic
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Old 09-11-2002, 06:21 PM   #10
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Thank You Jen-Yes I've seen really intense Threads on this subject
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Old 09-11-2002, 06:34 PM   #11
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Meril ---So as not to show disrespect for many of my friends here who are believing Christians, let me add that my name should not be included in this honored list. My own family is Jewish, in a very traditional sense. (So I guess the lack of slash also appeals to me!) But I am interested in questions of theology and belief, both Jewish and Christian, as well as mysticism.

Plus, with several degrees in medieval history, I spent long years immersed in Aquinas, Augustine, etc. So the terminology is very familiar to me. This is where the confusion may lie.

The religious interpetation of the books is a very valid one, both in a specific Christian sense and a more general theistic one, especially given Tolkien's own values. But it isn't the only one of value. Tolkien's writing are like a rich mine of knowledge. We all bring different perspectives and backgrounds. I've sometimes found, for example, that my knowlege of medieval history and literature has helped me as much or more in understanding Middle-earth than anything else.

sharon, the 7th age hobbit
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Old 09-11-2002, 06:41 PM   #12
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Tolkien

aaahhh oh I see-
Me-I've always liked Tolkien and Lewis' work-because of the sense that I'm a christian-and that Tolkien and Lewis are good in Theology...

Oh and I should introduce myself to you Child of the 7th Age-Hello [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]

[ September 11, 2002: Message edited by: InklingElf ]
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Old 09-11-2002, 08:09 PM   #13
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Inkling Elf -- Pleased to meet you. Yes, I can understand that you would truly appreciate this from a Christian perspective.

However, remember that even within the term "Chrisian" or theistic" there are many variations. For example, Tolkien's Galadriel was heavily influenced by his views on the Virgin Mary, who occupies a unique role within Catholicism. But there are other concepts which are more "generally Christian"--applicable to both Catholics and Protestants-- and still others, like Providence or the concept of sin, which someone like myself can equally appreciate.

Plus, there's the whole ethical element, how we conduct ourselves in the world, that people of good will everywhere can find inspiring. So there's lots of different things to be found and enjoyed.

sharon

[ September 11, 2002: Message edited by: Child of the 7th Age ]
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Old 09-11-2002, 08:39 PM   #14
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InklingElf,

Hi, I'm mark12_30, otherwise known as Helen. Welcome! And I really dig your name! The concept of "The Inklings" has fascinated me, in an abstract sense, for months now. I really wanted to write but I felt that in order to do so and do it well, I'd need an "Inklings". This forum really has provided that, so far.

A book that has fascinated me has been TOlkien's letters. I highly recommend them. They help me understand him more as a Catholic (I'm an charismatic evangelical ex-catholic... crazy, eh?) and Tolkien's works are, I think, richer when understood from that perspective.

Welcome, again, and I look forward to further chatting...

grace and peace, --mark12_30
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Old 09-11-2002, 09:12 PM   #15
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InklingElf and Child7thAge too,
Speaking of great books, Morgoth's Ring has some really interesting Theology in it-- the discussion between Andreth and-- is it Finrod? I just put it down. It was really good, I'll be rereading that section many times I think.

Morgoth's Ring-- It's hardbound and pricey but worth it!

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Old 09-12-2002, 06:31 AM   #16
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Maril,

I'm going to quote you from another thread, the one about LOTR being banned at a high school:

Quote:
Well, on the other side of the spectrum, this summer I was discussing the Lord of the Rings with the director of Buddhist studies at Naropa University. He considered it to be a testimony to 'basic goodness.' 10 points for the Buddhists?
I'm sure there would be many of us (meaning the entire community and not just those of us who you name as Christians) who would find a thread on this discussion interesting. Hint, hint.

Bethberry

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Old 09-12-2002, 05:23 PM   #17
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Tolkien

Thankyou for your kind greetings mark/helen-I've always been fascinated by the Inklings-and glad to have found one here. [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img]

...What do all of you think? Since Lewis' Chronicles of Narnia is enriched with theology as Tolkien's books are...Whom do you think has more theology in them-I know it's hard to say but please answer just the same.

...And further on...
Quote:
However, remember that even within the term "Chrisian" or theistic" there are many variations. For example, Tolkien's Galadriel was heavily influenced by his views on the Virgin Mary, who occupies a unique role within Catholicism. But there are other concepts which are more "generally Christian"--applicable to both Catholics and Protestants-- and still others, like Providence or the concept of sin, which someone like myself can equally appreciate.
Child of the 7th Age-isn't Born Again Christianity involved in this topic?-I.E.-The ScewTape Letters by: C.S. Lewis?
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Old 09-12-2002, 06:50 PM   #18
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InklingElf,

I'm going to address the born-again vs catholic issue first... (feel free to weigh in if you'd like, Sharon...)

I'm not sure which church Lewis was involved in, I'm embarassed to say, (I would have guessed the church of England but I could be quite mistaken!) but he was very good at working with the scriptures, which appeals to evangelicals, pentecostals and many other branches of Christianity that are heavily bible-based. I do appreciate that myself.

Some might, however, balk at classifying Lewis as "Born Again"; personally I wouldn't balk at it, since while he might not have been in a "Born Again" labelled denomination, the essence of being "born again" is deciding to follow Jesus as Lord, and I think that we can all agree that Lewis did just that.

However, do be sensitive to the fact that that last distinction is one that will confuse many people. I do not think that the majority of the people on this forum would consider Lewis "born again" and it might cause some backlash (on a bad day, anyway.) But you can avoid arguments along those lines by emphasizing that he was a devoted Christian and clearly scripturally based.

For that matter, it seems obvious to me that Tolkien, having clearly chosen Jesus as Lord, would also technically be considered born-again, but I do not think anyone on this board would label him as such! (I suspect that few catholics would relate to that term.) His theology is more primarily mystical in nature, rather than primarily scripturally based. I think this leads into your second question.

I hesitate to declare one writer over the otehr as "more" theological. What I will say is that Lewis's scriptural references are more immediately apparent, and therefore easier to grasp, and therefore often more immediately effective. Impacting the mind, it then secondarily affects the heart.

On the other hand, I think that Tolkien's theology, being more mystical (like George MacDonald, whom if you have not read, I earnestly recommend, and will gladly give you many links...) where was I?... Tolkien's theology, being more mystical, works on a more subtle level, permeating the heart and soul with wonder and curiosity and generating spiritual hunger. Many people that read Tolkien's work seem to come up with a desire to be more like Somebody Good that they read about in his books. I see many people wanting to be more elvish, more hobbit-like, or to be like Gandalf or one of the noble Numenoreans. I think that this would have pleased Tolkien, and I think that if those desires are allowed to flourish-- if we encourage the pursuit of that luminosity, the shining goodness, the glory, the beauty, the pursuit of truth and transcendance-- that is good theology of a completely different type; it is theology of the heart, which then, afterwards, slowly affects the mind.

There's a Vineyard theory that goes roughly like this: Theology of the heart, without theology of the mind, leads to wild excess and out-of-control self-indulgence. Theology of the mind, without theology of the heart, leads to dead legalism. A balance of theology of the mind and heart together, leads to God.

So-- which has the better theology, Tolkien or Lewis? As I see them, they are different in expression and purpose. Lewis is primarily of the mind (but affects therefore the heart), Tolkien is primarily of the heart (which then affects the mind.) But both are part of the same body, and one cannot say to the other, I have no need of you.

I've written more about mystical fantasy (regarding George MacDonald's works, but it applies equally well to TOlkien's work too) on my rather outdated reviews page. I would encourage you to visit and scroll down to the MacDonald section, and read it with Tolkien in mind. (My Tolkien section is very outdated at this point, I'm not sure how much of it I'd agree with now!) You can also follow whatever MacDonald links still work. Let me know if a bad link keeps you from a story you want.

If you want to continue along these heavy theological lines for Lewis and MacDonald, I'd encourage you to send me a Private Message for anything that is not strictly Tolkien related. The moderators are working hard these days to keep this board Tolkien-related and we all applaud their efforts. It's okay to continue to compare Lewis and MacDonald with Tolkien, of course.

It's also a big challenge to keep discussions like this from ruffling too many feathers. I've tried to keep this post within safe boundaries. However I have been known to stray-- So, please, All, if I've strayed outside boundaries (or been speaking too much Christianese again) please let me know. If anybody wants something I've said translated please ask!

Grace & peace, --mark12_30

[ September 12, 2002: Message edited by: mark12_30 ]
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Old 09-12-2002, 07:02 PM   #19
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Tolkien

Child of the 7th Age, I will amend my reference then to merely erudite. [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img]

Mr. U. and InklingElf, I was the monastery-building, drywall hanging, Buddha statue painting, fresco-carving, whistle-blowing, Tibetan translating, meditating in a tent on a mountaintop in a glorious driving rain type nun. One that drove the other nuns bananas. Some people just mistake the form for the essential meaning. My opinion: if it wasn't on the list when I took those vows, it's a low priority. Sigh. I miss it though.

[ September 12, 2002: Message edited by: Marileangorifurnimaluim ]
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Old 09-12-2002, 07:06 PM   #20
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-Mark/Helen-

-You are one with a stout heart(that's meant in a good metaphoric way [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]) I wouldn't ask you stop stop speaking in 'Christianese' any day

-Anyway I agree with you that Lewis' theology is easier to grasp-more than Tolkien's is harder...I even saw a principal (on another thread) declaring it was demonolgy!

-BTW this is a strange question: are you a born-again christian?
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Old 09-12-2002, 07:10 PM   #21
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-Maril-
...alright-thx for clarifying
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Old 09-12-2002, 07:16 PM   #22
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LOL! You're a bold one yourself, InklingElf.

In fact, I am an ex-catholic, born-again, spirit-filled evangelical charismatic, currently in a pentecostal church. Yeeow!Did I give you a headache? :-) I have actually come almost full-circle, realising that there is much that the catholic church holds in its vast storehouses that the younger wilder denominations would do well to come explore. (Ever read "Inner Mansions" by St. Teresa of Avila?? ) And that is one reason I enjoy Tolkien-- and some of his Letters-- so deeply; his catholicism is Christianity in a mystical, profoundly spiritual, and practical form. I love it.

You asked if I'm born-again, but you didn't ask what sort of Tolkien-creature I'd like to be. Some days an elf, and some days an elf-hunting hobbit, and it's terribly difficult to descide. Once upon a time, a Rohan sheild-maiden; but they don't get much elvish exposure, and I'm into this shining-light thing that the elves do so well. You can guess why.

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Old 09-12-2002, 07:18 PM   #23
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Maril,

Are you a storm-lover too? Driving rain... Goldberry's washing day? --mk12_30
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Old 09-12-2002, 07:25 PM   #24
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lol mark!

-elves vs. hobbits...scary thought!

-anyway no you didn't give me a headache-some of my family members became born-again christians that way too!

-I myself -I am a born-again christian as yourself [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img]
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Old 09-12-2002, 10:13 PM   #25
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Helen, that was one awesome post you made about Tolkien and Lewis. You do have a stout heart my sister! [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]

Inkling, I don't think I could have said it better than Mark, but I'll try.

Tolkien's story is more of a myth that points to a Higher Order, a Greater Truth than what is around us. These principles are to show that there is a better way, something more that is beyond us. As Helen said, his works are more metaphysical and mystical.
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Old 09-12-2002, 10:44 PM   #26
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Quote:
Child of the 7th Age-isn't Born Again Christianity involved in this topic?-I.E.-The ScewTape Letters by: C.S. Lewis?
Inkling Elf -- I think that Helen has far more "credentials" to approach such a topic that I do! From a personal standpoint, I can say this in terms of my response to the two authors. I've certainly read most of what Tolkien has written as well as a large chunk of Lewis, certainly everything published during his lifetime. (There's an awful lot the estate is publishing now which doesn't seem to be up to the same quality as the earlier things he himself had published.)

First, I have enjoyed reading both authors, but I have a definite bias in favor of Tolkien. I think the reason is this. With Tolkien, I get an incredible sense of wonder which I don't find to the same degree in Lewis. Surprised by Joy, which is obviously non-fiction has a bit of that sense of the beyond. But the other book by Lewis which "speaks" to me because it does carry that sense of wonder is Till We Have Faces. Interestingly, that book carries no explicit Christian message (at least in the same way that most of his other works do), but I find it incredibly moving. To me, that is Lewis' book which stands closest to the spirit of Tolkien. In fact parts of that tale even remind me a bit of certain pieces of Silm (not in content but spirit).

He wrote this work after his marriage and I think that it really shows. He has become a more sensitive person. His depictions of "mature" women (as opposed to the spirited but young Lucy) are sympathetic in a way that I don't sense in his adult science fiction or his fantasy. Has anyone else read that book, or felt that way about it?

Meril --LOL. You complment and "editing" are accepted. I wonder if there are things in Tolkien which you would see or interpret differently than I would because you are looking through the eyes of an "eastern" tradition?

sharon, the 7th age hobbit

[ September 13, 2002: Message edited by: Child of the 7th Age ]
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Old 09-13-2002, 06:27 AM   #27
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[img]smilies/eek.gif[/img] Yiowie! There's a lot of talent in here...
Just wanted to pop by and well, plop down my very simplistic views on C.S. Lewis and Tolkien.

I was graced by having a good librarian who recognised my love of fantasy. She gave me "The Lion, The Witch and the Wardrobe" to read. Of course, I gobbled it up and craved more. I read it a book a week until I'd come to the very end, ravinous for an explanation, when the book suddenly turned from mythological/spiritual to a wholly Christian epic. I was stunned. I actually tossed the book at the wall in anger. I was not ready to accept Lewis's intentions. His depication of Christ as the Lamb and the slaying of Alsan disturbed me greatly. Who was this author to mix the Land of Faery with Christian beliefs?! I had considered them separate worlds even though I had never read a Finnish Saga or an Irish tale from the Toyne. I had some greco-roman mythology at the time, and this seem to suffice when it came of fauns and wood spirits.

It wasn't until years later that I got to reading the "Prelandria" Series when I understood Lewis's fancifil worlds. He was all about telling the tale with a slight twist to it, a Christian twist as well as SciFi and Fantasy mingled together.

When I finally happened on Tolkien, it was a bit of a relief not to deal with Christianity on Lewis's level, but to have it symbolized with a First Testiment feel.
I liked that I didn't have to worry about theology and could wrap myself in pure fantasy for a while. Now I know better, having read most of his works.

Yes, LOTR was a work of goodness, a moral code to follow, a tale of happiness, through much sorrow. I adore it, and have of late wondered at its sublime array of tales that I still learn from.
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Old 09-13-2002, 09:03 AM   #28
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bravo bravo! ::claps her hands::

-Tinnu I'm glad you think we have talent-believe me I'm not have of everyone here!

-Did you read all seven books of The Chronicles of Narnia?-I did a few years a go when I was 9-and loved them!

-Child of the 7th Age-I share your same point of view-on Tolkien and Lewis [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]
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Old 09-13-2002, 09:17 AM   #29
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Quote:
Some people just mistake the form for the essential meaning.
An all too common failing of organized religion, sadly.

There's nothing like a good driving rainstorm to make me want to delve into Tolkien -- not to mention write my own stuff. Why is it that rain and writing go so well together? Unfortunately, it seems to rain here for only about one week out of the year.

Maril, I'm always interested in your Eastern perspective on the occasions when you grace us with it.
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Old 09-13-2002, 09:45 AM   #30
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It is hard to explain, but as I have read the works of Tolkien and Lewis (my two favorite authors), although the novels of both of the writers to me convey Christian messages, they do so in different ways.

I began reading Lewis' The Chronicles of Narnia when I was about seven or eight years old, beginning with The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe and progressing slowly through the series as I grew more interest in his works. Even at a young age Aslan's sacrifice for Edmund clearly reminded me of Christ's crucifixion and resurrection. It is nearly allegory, although I suppose the series serves more as a parallel to Biblical truths. However, not all of The Chronicles of Narnia distinctly reminded me of the Bible. Only two others carried this affect in my experience; The Magician's Nephew reminds me of the creation of the world in Genesis and The Last Battle alludes the end of the world and the triumphal return of Christ. In The Space Trilogy, a great deal of the story does not remind me of a specific instance in the Bible, but several factors clearly allude to Christian beliefs. For example, Maledil the Young is obviously Jesus, for he went into Thulcandra, or earth, and died in order to save the people from "The Bent One," or satan. In Perelandra, The Bent One possesses Weston to tempt the Queen of Perelandra to disobey the order of Maledil, just as in Genesis satan takes the body of a snake to tempt Eve to eat the fruit of the forbidden tree. So, in Lewis' fantasy novels the allusions to the Bible are usually obvious and nearly allegorical, but do not necessarily carry through the entire work.

Tolkien, on the other hand, seems to weave Christian themes throughout his entire novel, but in a manner more subtle than Lewis. The Ring, for example, to me symbolizes temptation and sin; therefore it must be destroyed. There is a battle between good and evil, and good ultimately prevails. The force of good is stronger than that of evil. The evil ones are corrupted from the good; Melkor rebelled against the Valar and Eru to seek power for himself. Orcs were derived from elves. There are themes that are not exclusively Christian but prevalent in the Bible: self-sacrifice, brotherly love, good coming through evil situations (Gollum and the Ring, for example), and repentance, just to name a few.

So, I guess in my opinion the theology in Lewis' novels is more apparent, but the theology in Tolkien's novels is more subtle and woven throughout. I hope this post makes sense... [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]

[ September 13, 2002: Message edited by: ElanorGamgee ]
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Old 09-13-2002, 02:49 PM   #31
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Hello All!

I am new here and was just perusing through the messages. I have enjoyed this thread as an avid fan of both Lewis and Tolkein, as well as one of the "erudite" "Born-again" ilk.

I too find that Lewis' points are less subtle and more firmly based on scriptural passages than Tolkein's. But, if you look closely, Tolkein's passages often read like Psalms - for example, in ROTK, at the end of "The Ride of the Rohirrim". Read this and compare to Psalm 130. Reading of the seige of Gondor and the coming of the Rohirrim with the morning light gives me a visual image of what it is like to wait for dawn "like the watchman who waits for the morning." While Lewis gives me firmly based points to feed my need for logic, Tolkein gives me beautiful imagery to feed my need for emotion.

Just my two cents! Too much "Christianese?"
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Old 09-13-2002, 03:28 PM   #32
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Hello Everyone!
I am new as well. Since I'm a christian, and love both Tolkien and Lewis I thought I'd join in this very fascinating discussion. My two favorite books in the world are: Lord of the Rings and Til We Have Faces. I find it hard to compare allegory in Lewis's Narnia vs. Tolkien's Middle Earth for the reason that Tolkien didn't actually intend to write an allegory at first. He just wanted to write a story, and all these wonderful themes just seemed to work their way in. This really is an example of the way that what we believe (what is important to us) always seems to work its way into everything we write (or think). Lewis, on the other hand wanted to write an allegory for children. In Lewis's books there is usually one distinct Christ figure and one symbol of evil. But we look at LotR and discover 3 or 4 Christ figures. They're all over the place. Frodo, Aragorn, and Gandalf all appear at one time or another as a Christ figure. I was utterly delighted when I read the Silmarillion for the first time a few years ago and was finally able to meet Iluvatar, the creator, and understand Tolkien's words when he talks about the end of days when Iluvatar's chidren sing before him, and when Iluvatar speaks of Melkor's evil intent being used for His glory. I felt a deep peace and understanding that I often experience when reading the Bible. I experienced the same sensation while reading Til We Have Faces when Orual recognizes that the fundamental purpose of human beings is to reach a union with the divine, or divine love, which Psyche had accomplished through her sacrifice but which Orual could not understand. This divine love Orual finally saw as the source of all the longings which she could never quench. As a human, she thirsted for a kind of joy, but never was able to satisfy the desire completely. Orual then recognized just how magnificent the true god always was and her response to this experience is one of reverence and worship. Now, that is something I could relate to. Which is one thing I truly love about Lewis: whenever I read his stuff I feel like I'm looking in a mirror, but this is often true for Tolkien as well. I generally favor Tolkien more on the whole, but both are dear to me; both were good companions in my childhood. They still are.
P.S. Some of my writing fanatic friends and I are in a club much like the Inklings.
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Old 09-13-2002, 03:32 PM   #33
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Mithuial --

Welcome to the Downs. I'm glad to see someone else who also likes Till We Have Faces. As I said in my earlier post, this is the one book of Lewis where I truly feel that sense of wonder.

Do you see any similarlity between the Silm and Till We Have Faces--not in content, but spirit? Just curious because I've always felt that.

sharon, the 7th age hobbit
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Old 09-13-2002, 03:55 PM   #34
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Yes, I think I can definately say that the two have a lot in common. So many times Tolkien and Lewis really seem to be on the same wavelength, maybe that's partly because they knew and read each other's stuff.
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Old 09-13-2002, 04:02 PM   #35
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Hi peoples,
I'm new here and the only person I have communicated w/ is InklingElf (who I still think rocks). I am a huge fan of Tolkein and Lewis. And as for what ElanorGamgee said, I couldn't have said it better myself. God truly put those two men on this Earth to touch us, inspire us, and to help us grow closer to Him. I don't know about ya'll (I'm from G.A., U.S. "Ya'll" is a big part of our vocab. lol) but I find it hard sometimes not to make LOTR and idol. I love it so much that sometimes I will pick up the books more than I do the Bible. The Bible is of course more important to me b/c I am an *ahem**ahem* born again Christian and it is God's love letter to us and lets us know bout Him. Well... I've lost my point in writing this... so thats all I suppose. [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img]
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Old 09-13-2002, 07:59 PM   #36
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I know exactly what you mean. I'm always wanting to read LotR, and I know there are other christians that struggle with the same thing. I'm kinda psycho like that. If there's something I love, then I really love it, and I think about it all the time, and I have to talk it out with God. He's always real cool about it though. He's so awesome! He knows that I love it, and He's really helped me, by using my love for LotR to get closer to him and to witness at my school. My obsession with LotR has really helped me to learn not to limit God. Sometimes He does tell me to tone it down a bit, but I just have to learn to use some self discipline, and when I feel the urge to pick up the Silmarillion, I pick up the Bible first then maybe I can compare scripture and text in the book.
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Old 09-13-2002, 08:53 PM   #37
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Yeah, and the surrounding Christians get nervous: "Are you reading that AGAIN? You're obsessing!" ...and I respond, "Your point?" I think that's one reason that I love some of Tolkien's letters so much (I always rave about that one to Michael, about women, and communion.) It shows that the spiritual side of Tolkien's sub-creation isn't accidental. The man was deep. And so are his books.

[ September 13, 2002: Message edited by: mark12_30 ]
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Old 09-14-2002, 01:14 AM   #38
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OOOahhhh, have I got a number to drop on some of you.
InklingElf - 7 books? Whoa, I forget now, how many were there? I thought it was 11 books? At least that's what I remember. I know they have combined some of them. I adored Narnia, until it turned into a lesson. I was a grumpy child! Now I love it, all of C.S's works are great to read.

ElanorGamgee - You are so right about so right about Tolkien's subtle writing style. That's what I loved about his work.

And for the Born Agains *coughcough* in the crowd, I must point to Divine Love as an actual thing! (I'd better tread lightly here, but I will say that I have felt it.) Yep that's right, I saw it, felt it, know it's there, and almost had a chat with the Big Guy. Or rather, Gal. Whom ever. It was on the otherside, and I wasn't about to question God's choice in sex! (Just thought I'd put a big thumbs up to those who have read about joining with the Divine Mind and Love. Lewis and Tolkien had the right idea, as well as that other author and series mentioned above! [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]

It's great to read about everyone's experiences. I'm so glad this thread was created!

[img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]
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Old 09-14-2002, 04:05 AM   #39
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May be you'll find This Thread interesting
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Old 09-14-2002, 10:13 AM   #40
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-:;waves to Everlen:: your are too kewl ur self!

-Tinnu there are 7 main Chronicles of Narnia::nods:: yep

-welcome Nerdanel!-ooh I hope I spelled that right!-I agree with your points as well

[ February 18, 2003: Message edited by: InklingElf ]
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