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Old 07-31-2002, 03:18 AM   #1
arelendil
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Silmaril Hair problem

Has anyone else noticed that when tolkien is discribing people or places it's really amazing but their is a lack of info on legolas. the book does even mention hair colour.i know the film made him blonde but is there any evidence or was it just directors choice? i always thought all elves were blond except elrond kin cause they were half-elven!

[ July 31, 2002: Message edited by: arelendil ]
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Old 07-31-2002, 03:44 AM   #2
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Silmaril

Yes that seems true. I never read anything about hair colour. I always imagined that elves would've had beautiful long silvery hair. Not Blonde [img]smilies/eek.gif[/img]
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Old 07-31-2002, 03:54 AM   #3
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Silmaril

silvery but that would mean they all need wigs!! i see your pt though it would have add that air that i was looking for!
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Old 07-31-2002, 04:30 AM   #4
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hehe yeah!Silvery hair for the elves.Thats how i always saw it.hehe
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Old 07-31-2002, 04:40 AM   #5
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Luthien had dark hair and she wasn't half elven. Although she was half Maia I suppose.
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Old 07-31-2002, 04:50 AM   #6
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The noldorne was mostly darkhaired. That is why Finarfin's kin is and exception; He married Earwen, a Teleri, and his children had golden hair. The word fin means hear, and is because of their haircolor. Finrod, Glorfindel and so on.
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Old 07-31-2002, 06:05 AM   #7
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Silmaril

i never even thought of that!
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Old 07-31-2002, 06:09 AM   #8
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Silmaril

Aredhel, the White Lady of the Noldor, had dark hair (The Silmarillion, chapter 5, Of Eldamar)

Generally, I've always thought of the Calaquendi (the elves that went to Valinor) of having light hair and the Moriquendi and the Sindar having dark. Although, Feanor had dark hair, did he not?
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Old 07-31-2002, 06:40 AM   #9
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The Noldor had dark hair, the Vanyar had blonde hair and the Teliri had silvery hair. Legolas probably had blonde hair because his father had and his father didn't seem to like the Noldor.
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Old 07-31-2002, 08:41 AM   #10
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Pipe

So that would mean Galadriel had dark hair and Legolas had silvery hair.
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Old 07-31-2002, 10:30 AM   #11
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I thought Legolas was a Silvan Elf.

Can some one clarify for me exactly what types of elf you get? I hear all these names noldor, teleri and so on and it's sorta confusing.
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Old 07-31-2002, 10:35 AM   #12
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If the hair color of the Sindar was any indication as to the hair color of the rest of the Telerin tribe, silvery hair was actually uncommon among the Teleri.

Here's a good thread regarding hair.

I'd like to remind people to at least try to search for the answer to your question before posting a new thread.
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Old 07-31-2002, 11:07 AM   #13
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Actually, I don't know the color of Finarfin's wife (Earwen)'s hair.

Blonde was introduced to the royal Noldorin house of Finwe because of his second wife, Indis, a Vanyarin elf. This is why Finarfin {and not Fingolfin: see edit below} had light hair.

Galadriel (Finarfin + Earwen) is thought of as Noldorin, but in actuality, her father was half-Noldorin/half-Vanyarin (Finarfin = Finwe + Indis) and her mother, Olwe's dauther, was wholly Telerin for what we know (no information on her mother is given). Thus, she is 25% Noldor, 25% Vanyar, and possibly (most likely?) 50% Telerin. She inherited the light hair gene from her grandmother, Indis.

"Elwe himself had indeed long and beautiful hair of silver hue, but this does not seem to have been a common feature of the Sindar, though it was found among them occasionally, especially in the nearer or remoter kin of Elwe (as in the case of Círdan)."

Thus, it is quite conceivable that Olwe/Earwen too had blonde hair, since his brother Elmo was the grandfather of Celeborn, who also had light hair, and his brother Elwe (Thingol) had light hair.

Edit, for amyrlis:

Seems that it was a misconception of mine, and I apologize.

From the Silmarillion...

Quote:
Finarfin - The third son of Finwe, the younger of Feanor's half-brothers; remained in Aman after the Exile of the Noldor and ruled the remnant of his people in Tirion. Alone among the Noldorin princes he and his descendants had golden hair, derived from his mother Indis, who was a Vanyarin Elf (see Vanyar).
So, no, Fingolfin didn't have light hair. Finarfin did however, so the light hair of his children did not come from his wife Earwen (or at least not only from her), but from himself and his Vanyarin mother, Indis.

Sorry if I caused any confusion.

[ August 01, 2002: Message edited by: Legalos ]
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Old 07-31-2002, 12:42 PM   #14
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Legalos, is there a specific reference to Fingolfin having blond hair? I was under the impression that of the Noldor, only the house of Finarfin had golden hair. So I always assumed the Fingolfin did not inherit his mother's hue, and was dark haired.

obloquy - thanks for the link to the older thread! I would have directed my post there had I not had a specific question of Legalos' post here. [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img]

EDIT for Legalos: Thank you for clarifying that for me, I appreciate it!

[ August 01, 2002: Message edited by: amyrlis ]
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Old 08-02-2002, 11:26 AM   #15
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I had pictured, they had some kind of bleach blond, but yeah silvery that it seems very fair and almost radient, like the elven cloaks.
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Old 08-02-2002, 02:35 PM   #16
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Silmaril

I had always thought elves to be dark haired for the most part until I saw the film. Now I can't get the image of Legolas and co's fair hair.
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Old 08-02-2002, 04:28 PM   #17
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I was the opposite. I always thought elves had light/blond hair when I was younger. I didn't pick up on the dark hair until about the 2nd time I read the Sil (nothing gets by me! [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]). I even wrote a poem in H.S. about Aragorn and Arwen, in which I stated that Arwen had "gold" hair. Silly me! I thought Legolas was blond until I joined this site and learned that it is never specified. I went with those on the site who believe he has dark hair and forced myself to view him differently during readings. Then, the movie came out and has sent me reeling back to my old ways. What can you do!?!
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Old 08-03-2002, 05:10 PM   #18
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I always imagined Legolas hair to be light blond. I have no idea why!
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Old 08-04-2002, 09:12 AM   #19
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Galadriel is blonde and Celeborn's hair is silver. That is mentioned in the books.
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Old 08-04-2002, 10:50 AM   #20
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You're kidding me.
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Old 08-04-2002, 10:57 AM   #21
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I wasn't aware that there was a silver hair gene swimming around in the Elven gene pool til now.


That's interesting cause I was going to color my hair silver for some inexplicable reason, only I couldn't ever find silver hair dye and... never mind. [img]smilies/rolleyes.gif[/img]
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Old 08-04-2002, 11:19 AM   #22
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I always imagine elves with blonde hair [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]
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Old 08-04-2002, 11:27 AM   #23
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Question

Okay, people, we already know that elves can have black, blonde and silver hair, but what about brown and red? I don't think Tolkien ever mentions a carrot-top elf...
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Old 08-04-2002, 11:45 AM   #24
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Honestly, hair color does not matter too much to me. For all we know a Sindarian could have blonde hair while another could have black. It really does not matter as it is not a pivital moment of any Tolkien's work. I have yet to read a story that relays on whether some person has blonde hair. And if he didn't the Orc would eat him.
Legolas was essentially a thug, a sharp shooter for the Fellowship. I suppose that is what Tolkien did not give him much discription.
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Old 08-04-2002, 11:52 AM   #25
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Yes, if you had clicked on the link I provided above you would see that there were red-haired Elves.

And nobody cares how you always pictured Elves.
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Old 08-04-2002, 11:57 AM   #26
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Quote:
Legolas was essentially a thug, a sharp shooter for the Fellowship.
Nice view of Legolas ya got there, Eol! I never actually thought of him as a thug! From now on I only think of Legolas as wearing a pinstriped suit and armed with a machine gun! [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img] [img]smilies/tongue.gif[/img]

Anyway, sorry for the out of topic message, but I had to say that! Carry on, people!
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Old 08-04-2002, 12:13 PM   #27
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Thank you Beatice!

As I had feared with making such a comment about Legolas would have thousands of loyal Legolas fans attempt to run me down and beat me. I am glad you enjoyed the point of view.
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Old 08-04-2002, 12:30 PM   #28
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Beatrice

There were elves with brown hair. When it is said that elves are 'dark-haired,' that term encompasses both black and brown hair. Caranthir (one of Feanor's sons) had black hair ("as his grandfather" was, Finwe). His other grandfather, Urundil (his mother's father), had brown hair.

There were red-haired elves. Three of Feanor's sons had red hair - the oldest and the youngest (Maedhros, being the oldest, and the twins Amrod and Amras, being the youngest). They inherited this from their mother, Feanor's wife, Nerdanel through her father Urundil that showed signs of this too...he had "coppery-red glints" in his brown hair.

This is found in "The Shibboleth of Feanor" in The History of Middle-earth, Volume 12: The Peoples of Middle-earth.

[ August 04, 2002: Message edited by: Legalos ]
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Old 08-04-2002, 12:42 PM   #29
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Really? I never knew...

Can someone please give me the page that says that Feanor's sons had red hair. Geez, shows how well I've been reading The Silmarillion!

People, please don't kill me for not knowing that elves could have brown and red hair! Hobbits are really more my area. [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]
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Old 08-04-2002, 01:19 PM   #30
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Quote:
There were red-haired elves. Three of Feanor's sons had red hair - the oldest and the youngest (Maedhros, being the oldest, and the twins Amrod and Amras, being the youngest). They inherited this from their mother, Feanor's wife, Nerdanel through her father Urundil that showed signs of this too...he had "coppery-red glints" in his brown hair.

This is found in "The Shibboleth of Feanor" in The History of Middle-earth, Volume 12: The Peoples of Middle-earth.
As Legalos stated in his post it was not found in the Silmarillion, but in HoME #12: The Peoples of Middle-earth.
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Old 08-04-2002, 01:25 PM   #31
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Sorry...I added that edit after Beatrice read the post, I believe. I did so to avoid making an unnecessarily separate post (a purpose which I have just defeated).
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Old 08-04-2002, 06:27 PM   #32
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I have no clue whatsoever about any elves' hair color at all. And now that I've read this thread-- very scary-- I CERTAINLY won't mention it in any of my writings-- well, except for one specific one that is blonde. But the rest? Shhh, it's a secret. Maybe they're punked out purple.
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Old 08-04-2002, 06:42 PM   #33
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"And nobody cares how you always pictured Elves"
You could have said that in a nicer way, obloquy.
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Old 08-05-2002, 11:04 PM   #34
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Seriously, that was rude.
 
Old 08-05-2002, 11:56 PM   #35
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Quote:
Seriously, that was rude.
obloquy probably doen't care about that either. I share his opinion. What Tolkien wrote is far more important than what any of us mortals thinks.
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Old 08-06-2002, 06:58 PM   #36
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I also think so, burrahobbit but he could have said something like: "why don´t we stick to what Tolkien wrote" or something less rude.
Don´t worry, we can leave it there and go on with the topic [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]
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Old 08-12-2002, 11:03 AM   #37
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the other day i was looking at some pics from the movie and it was at the council of elrond. they had blonde haired elves by legolas but on the other side of the men there were more elves and they all had brown hair, so i guess the movie made the elves from mirkwood blonde but rivendell brown.
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Old 08-12-2002, 01:39 PM   #38
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The hair of Elves comes in every color that the hair of Men comes in. Blond, brown, black, red, silver.
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