Pointy Elf Ears? - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Lostgaeriel · 01-16-2002, 07:41 PM

OK, this is driving me crazy! Where did Tolkien describe Elf (and Hobbit) EARS as being pointy?

I understand the film using this as a visual device to distinguish Elves from Men, etc. But a lot of fan and professional artwork also shows the pointy ears. Is this based on JRRT's drawings? Or is it just an aesthetic that I don't understand? Are pointy ears more "fair" than rounded ears?

I'm working on some drawings and want to be as accurate on the details that are set by JRRT.

Dûrkriswen · 01-16-2002, 08:11 PM

Tolkien never mentioned the elves or hobbits as having pointy ears, but I gues everyone has allways thought of elves as having pointy ears, (I have, they look neat that way). And if the hobbits didn't have pointy ears, they would just look like little people with fuzzie feet, the the movie producers had to change it just a little.

[ January 16, 2002: Message edited by: Dûrkriswen ]

Elrian · 01-17-2002, 02:37 AM

Here's a link to another topic in here where the Elf ears issue came up. Link

Samwise · 01-17-2002, 03:31 PM

I wondered that about the Hobbits, too. I mean, the Elves, as it's been said, one just tends to think of them that way....but the ?Hobbits? I would think the shortness and the big fuzzy feet would've been enough to distinguish them from other races. [img]smilies/rolleyes.gif[/img]

zifnab · 01-17-2002, 04:03 PM

Well, I scanned through the first couple pages of “The Hobbit” where the Hobbits are described by Tolkien. And it doesn’t mention anything about their “pointy ears”. But some people call hobbits, halflings, and in many other novels and even RPG, Elves and Halflings have pointy ears. That is what I have always thought.

My, what long ears you have. The better to hear you with, my dear!?

[img]smilies/tongue.gif[/img] [img]smilies/tongue.gif[/img]

Elvenglass · 01-17-2002, 04:44 PM

Yes I would have to agree with Samwise with being able to distinguish hobbits by their hairy feet! As for the ears, I don't remember Elves being described as having pointy ears...

Samwise · 01-17-2002, 08:47 PM

[img]smilies/frown.gif[/img] I certainly can't remember it either. Then, as I've admitted, It has been a loooong time since I've read the books... [img]smilies/frown.gif[/img]

Quote:

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Sam Gamgee

Lostgaeriel · 01-17-2002, 11:54 PM

Thank you, all. And extra special thanks to Elrian for the link to the recent discussion of Elfin Anatomy.

I should have tried a search of the Newcomers, Books & Books II Forums for "elf ears" or "pointy ears". I would have found it.

So for my comic strip entries, the Elves will have pointy ears, but for my "serious" artwork they might not. I'm not sure yet.

Samwise · 01-18-2002, 04:21 PM

Looking forward to it, wether they do or not. [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]

Quote:

I made a promise, Mister Frodo! 'Don't you leave him, Samwise Gamgee', Gandalf said! 'Don't you leave him!
Sam Gamgee

Enkanowen · 01-21-2002, 12:57 PM

elves, hobbits, man, goblins... all these creatures were not invented by Tolkien, he took them from a variety of myths, hobbits are Halflings which have been described as between 2 and 4ft tall, elves have been described as tall and slender, with slightly pointed ears, immortal and more graceful than man... so the way these races look is the way they have looked for centuries of tale and myth

Dwarin Thunderhammer · 01-21-2002, 02:23 PM

Concerning Hobbits Tolkien wrote in one of his letters:

I picture a fairly human figure, not a kind of 'fairy' rabbit as some of my British reviewers seem to fancy: fattish in the stomach, shortish in the leg. A round, jovial face; ears only slightly pointed and 'elvish'; hair short and curling (brown). The feet from the ankles down, covered with brown hairy fur. Clothing: green velvet breeches; red or yellow waistcoat; brown or green jacket; gold (or brass) buttons; a dark green hood and cloak (belonging to a dwarf).
The Letters of J.R.R. Tolkien, 35 (#27)

Concerning whether Elves have pointed ears here isan artcle on elvish ears.

01-28-2002, 03:30 PM

[img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]I like the pointy ears! [img]smilies/tongue.gif[/img]

Carannillion · 01-28-2002, 04:35 PM

I'm for the pointy ones. Not very pointed, but a little. The ones in the movie fit my imagination 99.99%!

02-01-2002, 02:17 PM

the ears in the film seem perfect to me, plus they look really sexy

Frahhamn · 02-01-2002, 02:37 PM

ok. that person's new. most people don't say hobbits are S-E-X-Y. LOL... [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img]

Sindalómiel · 02-01-2002, 07:22 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Frahhamn:
<STRONG>ok. that person's new. most people don't say hobbits are S-E-X-Y. LOL... [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img]</STRONG>

Other hobbits probably do.

Samwise · 02-01-2002, 08:16 PM

Hello, Arreion. Welcome to the 'Downs. [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]
~Your friendly neighborhood gardener

Quote:

"Well, I'm back."
Sam Gamgee

Carannillion · 02-02-2002, 04:43 AM

I think the ears in the movie are sexy too!

Ara'rial · 02-02-2002, 06:53 PM

I liked the pointy elf ears. I think they're cool. Though I do not recall hearing about pointy hobbit ears in the books, but I have not read them al so yeah... But I like them.

Samwise · 02-03-2002, 04:19 PM

If I haven't had the chance to say it before, Ara'rial--welcome to the 'Downs!

Quote:

"Well, I'm back."
Sam Gamgee

02-05-2002, 07:13 PM

I am currently reading the books and in my imagination the hobbits and elves have pointy ears. From what I've read and heard, they do have pointy ears, in my opinion anyway...

Aralaithiel · 02-05-2002, 07:19 PM

Pointy ears are very sexy! And it never hurts to have long flowing hair, particularly golden or silver in color. I for one would like to see an elf with red hair! (Muses to self - hmmm, maybe I could be one of them there red-haired elves?) [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]

Mereth'iel · 02-08-2002, 09:37 AM

Hi All. Pointy elven ears aren't something that was just 'made up', but the image we have received from folklore. Also, not all elves are very tall. They can vary in height.
Mereth'iel [img]smilies/eek.gif[/img]

Samwise · 02-11-2002, 05:02 PM

Hello, Mereth'iel. Enjoy your time at the 'Downs.

Quote:

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door barred--Orcs coming!

Copyright 2002 S. Uffelman

02-11-2002, 05:55 PM

In all my stories when I use elves (which is almost every one) I tend to describe them as tall and lithe, with flowing hair (of some color, usually gold or black) and pointed ears. It might have been described somewhere in some book, but I really never thought of hobbits, or halflings, having pointed ears. I guess it all depends on the writer's and reader's imagination.

Starbreeze · 02-13-2002, 03:22 PM

I was puzzled by pointy hobbit ears, but the more times I see the film, the more I get to like them. [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]

Mereth'iel · 02-15-2002, 01:13 AM

I got to where I liked them too. I guess pointy ears are visible clue in movies that you are dealing with an out-of-the-ordinary creature.

Mereth'iel

Mereth'iel · 02-15-2002, 01:15 AM

P.S. Samwise, thanks for the welcome.

Starbreeze · 02-16-2002, 10:33 AM

I have information on this!

In TT in the first book of it Tolkein mentions that Merry and Pippin were like "elf children peeping round at the dawn of...etc". As it is generaly accepted the elves have pointy ears, is this a clue that hobbits do indeed have pointy ears?

Aralaithiel · 02-16-2002, 10:51 AM

Hmmm...could be, Starbreeze.

Starbreeze · 02-16-2002, 10:57 AM

Thats what I translated it as meaning anyway.

Raefindel · 02-16-2002, 03:05 PM

I'm glad you mentioned the red hair, Aralaithiel. That is just what my name means... Raefindel is Red-haired elf. Thaoug I am a rare elf, indeed! [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]

Samwise · 02-16-2002, 03:53 PM

Quote:

P.S. Samwise, thanks for the welcome.

You're quite....(you know)... [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]

Quote:

"Eavesdropping Sir? I don't follow you, begging your pardon. There ain't no eaves at Bag End, and that's a fact."
Sam Gamgee

Rosseiliantiel · 05-30-2002, 01:07 PM

Tolkein doesn't really say elves have pointy ears, but people tend to assume they do. Tolkein also doesn't say they don't...hmmmm...maybe some elves have pointy ears and some don't...my brain hurts

***Sharkû*** · 05-30-2002, 01:23 PM

Tolkien said hobbits had slightly pointed ears. Tolkien did not say Quendi have pointed ears (the only line where he ever said their ears were more 'pointed' and 'leaf-shaped' than human ears was from 1937/38 and can safely be rebuked). Ergo: Quendi do not have pointy ears in Tolkien's later writings including The Lord of the Rings. On the contrary, he meticulously stressed in his later philosophical writings that the difference between Quendi and Men was one of fate only, not of physiology.

Aramacil · 05-30-2002, 01:50 PM

what would an elf be without his pointy ears?

not much more than a normal human
(with some extra powers)

eleniwilwarin · 05-30-2002, 02:35 PM

i like elves wether they have pointy ears or not... [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img] i read the books not a long time ago and i could not see that they have pointy ears anywhere....

Lostgaeriel · 05-30-2002, 07:14 PM

Thanks Sharku!

I never imagined Elves looking any different than Men, except for being more beautiful and taller.

Where did Tolkien describe Hobbit ears as 'slightly pointed'? Is that the extent of the description?

When illustrating an event or character in a story, is the illustrator required to read every last word of every work by the author or is it enough to go by the information given in the story being illustrated?

Oh, never mind. I guess I could avoid the issue entirely by just covering Merry's ear(s) with his hair or his helmet! [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img] Time to get on with it.

01-16-2002, 07:41 PM	#1
Lostgaeriel Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Toronto the Good Posts: 479	Pointy Elf Ears? OK, this is driving me crazy! Where did Tolkien describe Elf (and Hobbit) EARS as being pointy? I understand the film using this as a visual device to distinguish Elves from Men, etc. But a lot of fan and professional artwork also shows the pointy ears. Is this based on JRRT's drawings? Or is it just an aesthetic that I don't understand? Are pointy ears more "fair" than rounded ears? I'm working on some drawings and want to be as accurate on the details that are set by JRRT. __________________ Elen síla lúmenn’ omentielvo, a star shines on the hour of our meeting.

01-17-2002, 02:37 AM	#3
Elrian Eldar Spirit of Truth Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Land of the FREE, Home of the BRAVE Posts: 794	Here's a link to another topic in here where the Elf ears issue came up. Link __________________ ~Call me a relic, call me what you will. Say I'm old fashioned , say I'm over the hill. That old whine ain't got no soul. I'll stick to Old Toby and a Hobbit hole.~

01-17-2002, 03:31 PM	#4
Samwise Faithful Spirit Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: #3 Bagshot Row, Petaluma, Ca Posts: 2,299	I wondered that about the Hobbits, too. I mean, the Elves, as it's been said, one just tends to think of them that way....but the ?Hobbits? I would think the shortness and the big fuzzy feet would've been enough to distinguish them from other races. [img]smilies/rolleyes.gif[/img] __________________ Giving thanks unto the Father...In whom we have redemption through His blood, even the forgiveness of sins.~Colossians1:12a,14 * * * * * * * I am Samwise son of Hamfast, if by hoe or trowel I can get these weeds out of your garden, I will.You have my shears!;)

01-17-2002, 04:03 PM	#5
zifnab Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: omni-presence Posts: 331	Well, I scanned through the first couple pages of “The Hobbit” where the Hobbits are described by Tolkien. And it doesn’t mention anything about their “pointy ears”. But some people call hobbits, halflings, and in many other novels and even RPG, Elves and Halflings have pointy ears. That is what I have always thought. My, what long ears you have. The better to hear you with, my dear!? [img]smilies/tongue.gif[/img] [img]smilies/tongue.gif[/img] __________________ Facebook.

01-17-2002, 04:44 PM	#6
Elvenglass Haunting Spirit Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Canada Posts: 55	Yes I would have to agree with Samwise with being able to distinguish hobbits by their hairy feet! As for the ears, I don't remember Elves being described as having pointy ears... __________________ Cormamin lindua ele lle Elen sila lumenn omentielvo

01-16-2002, 08:11 PM	#2
Dûrkriswen Pile O'Bones Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Lothlorien Posts: 12	Tolkien never mentioned the elves or hobbits as having pointy ears, but I gues everyone has allways thought of elves as having pointy ears, (I have, they look neat that way). And if the hobbits didn't have pointy ears, they would just look like little people with fuzzie feet, the the movie producers had to change it just a little. [ January 16, 2002: Message edited by: Dûrkriswen ] __________________ http://mediaservice.photoisland.com/...2320898899.jpg

01-17-2002, 11:54 PM	#8
Lostgaeriel Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Toronto the Good Posts: 479	Thank you, all. And extra special thanks to Elrian for the link to the recent discussion of Elfin Anatomy. I should have tried a search of the Newcomers, Books & Books II Forums for "elf ears" or "pointy ears". I would have found it. So for my comic strip entries, the Elves will have pointy ears, but for my "serious" artwork they might not. I'm not sure yet. __________________ Elen síla lúmenn’ omentielvo, a star shines on the hour of our meeting.

01-21-2002, 12:57 PM	#10
Enkanowen Haunting Spirit Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 53	elves, hobbits, man, goblins... all these creatures were not invented by Tolkien, he took them from a variety of myths, hobbits are Halflings which have been described as between 2 and 4ft tall, elves have been described as tall and slender, with slightly pointed ears, immortal and more graceful than man... so the way these races look is the way they have looked for centuries of tale and myth

01-21-2002, 02:23 PM	#11
Dwarin Thunderhammer Khazad-Doomed Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: The Green Dragon Posts: 182	Concerning Hobbits Tolkien wrote in one of his letters: I picture a fairly human figure, not a kind of 'fairy' rabbit as some of my British reviewers seem to fancy: fattish in the stomach, shortish in the leg. A round, jovial face; ears only slightly pointed and 'elvish'; hair short and curling (brown). The feet from the ankles down, covered with brown hairy fur. Clothing: green velvet breeches; red or yellow waistcoat; brown or green jacket; gold (or brass) buttons; a dark green hood and cloak (belonging to a dwarf). The Letters of J.R.R. Tolkien, 35 (#27) Concerning whether Elves have pointed ears here isan artcle on elvish ears. __________________ “Baruk Khazâd! Khazâd aimênu!” Come visit The Rohan RPG! The only RPG to fanfic on the downs! Without law there can be no freedom. Without justice there can be no law.

01-28-2002, 03:30 PM	#12
Arwen daughter of Elrond Guest Posts: n/a	[img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]I like the pointy ears! [img]smilies/tongue.gif[/img]

01-28-2002, 04:35 PM	#13
Carannillion Wight Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Mici Firya Posts: 135	I'm for the pointy ones. Not very pointed, but a little. The ones in the movie fit my imagination 99.99%! __________________ A cry for the people, but there's noone there to hear...

02-01-2002, 02:17 PM	#14
arre Guest Posts: n/a	the ears in the film seem perfect to me, plus they look really sexy

02-01-2002, 02:37 PM	#15
Frahhamn Pile O'Bones Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Minas Morgul Posts: 22	ok. that person's new. most people don't say hobbits are S-E-X-Y. LOL... [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img] __________________ AAAA!!! DON'T RATE ME DOWN!!!! :( RATE ME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ----Frahhamn's Dungeon ----Email Frahhamn ---- tlotr @ ezboard

02-02-2002, 04:43 AM	#18
Carannillion Wight Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Mici Firya Posts: 135	I think the ears in the movie are sexy too! __________________ A cry for the people, but there's noone there to hear...

02-02-2002, 06:53 PM	#19
Ara'rial Pile O'Bones Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Under the Sun Posts: 13	I liked the pointy elf ears. I think they're cool. Though I do not recall hearing about pointy hobbit ears in the books, but I have not read them al so yeah... But I like them. __________________ In the dark I hear a call Calling me there I will go there And back again...

02-05-2002, 07:13 PM	#21
Chica Bolger Guest Posts: n/a	I am currently reading the books and in my imagination the hobbits and elves have pointy ears. From what I've read and heard, they do have pointy ears, in my opinion anyway...

02-05-2002, 07:19 PM	#22
Aralaithiel Ghost Eldaran Queen Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: A remote mountain in Valinor Posts: 353	Pointy ears are very sexy! And it never hurts to have long flowing hair, particularly golden or silver in color. I for one would like to see an elf with red hair! (Muses to self - hmmm, maybe I could be one of them there red-haired elves?) [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img] __________________ A lelyat, wen! (Quenya Elvish for "You go, girl!"

02-08-2002, 09:37 AM	#23
Mereth'iel Pile O'Bones Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Misted Mississippi Posts: 23	Hi All. Pointy elven ears aren't something that was just 'made up', but the image we have received from folklore. Also, not all elves are very tall. They can vary in height. Mereth'iel [img]smilies/eek.gif[/img]

02-11-2002, 05:55 PM	#25
Elven Maiden Guest Posts: n/a	In all my stories when I use elves (which is almost every one) I tend to describe them as tall and lithe, with flowing hair (of some color, usually gold or black) and pointed ears. It might have been described somewhere in some book, but I really never thought of hobbits, or halflings, having pointed ears. I guess it all depends on the writer's and reader's imagination.

02-13-2002, 03:22 PM	#26
Starbreeze Ghost of a Smile Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Mirkwood - Middle Earth Posts: 389	I was puzzled by pointy hobbit ears, but the more times I see the film, the more I get to like them. [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img] __________________ Do not tamper with the affairs of wizards, they are not all that subtle - Terry Pratchett To write is to make dreams, to make dreams is to awaken the fantasy of the mind, to awaken the mind is to be a master.

02-15-2002, 01:13 AM	#27
Mereth'iel Pile O'Bones Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Misted Mississippi Posts: 23	I got to where I liked them too. I guess pointy ears are visible clue in movies that you are dealing with an out-of-the-ordinary creature. Mereth'iel

02-15-2002, 01:15 AM	#28
Mereth'iel Pile O'Bones Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Misted Mississippi Posts: 23	P.S. Samwise, thanks for the welcome.

02-16-2002, 10:33 AM	#29
Starbreeze Ghost of a Smile Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Mirkwood - Middle Earth Posts: 389	I have information on this! In TT in the first book of it Tolkein mentions that Merry and Pippin were like "elf children peeping round at the dawn of...etc". As it is generaly accepted the elves have pointy ears, is this a clue that hobbits do indeed have pointy ears? __________________ Do not tamper with the affairs of wizards, they are not all that subtle - Terry Pratchett To write is to make dreams, to make dreams is to awaken the fantasy of the mind, to awaken the mind is to be a master.

02-16-2002, 10:51 AM	#30
Aralaithiel Ghost Eldaran Queen Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: A remote mountain in Valinor Posts: 353	Hmmm...could be, Starbreeze. __________________ A lelyat, wen! (Quenya Elvish for "You go, girl!"

02-16-2002, 10:57 AM	#31
Starbreeze Ghost of a Smile Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Mirkwood - Middle Earth Posts: 389	Thats what I translated it as meaning anyway. __________________ Do not tamper with the affairs of wizards, they are not all that subtle - Terry Pratchett To write is to make dreams, to make dreams is to awaken the fantasy of the mind, to awaken the mind is to be a master.

02-16-2002, 03:05 PM	#32
Raefindel Sword of the Spirit Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Washington State Posts: 1,325	I'm glad you mentioned the red hair, Aralaithiel. That is just what my name means... Raefindel is Red-haired elf. Thaoug I am a rare elf, indeed! [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img] __________________ Blessed be the Lord my Strength, Who trained my hands for war and my fingers to fight. Psallm 144:1

05-30-2002, 01:07 PM	#34
Rosseiliantiel Wight Join Date: May 2002 Location: Hopelessly lost Posts: 178	Tolkein doesn't really say elves have pointy ears, but people tend to assume they do. Tolkein also doesn't say they don't...hmmmm...maybe some elves have pointy ears and some don't...my brain hurts __________________ Whatever floats your oyster.

05-30-2002, 01:23 PM	#35
*Sharkû* Hungry Ghoul Join Date: Jun 2000 Posts: 1,721	Tolkien said hobbits had slightly pointed ears. Tolkien did not say Quendi have pointed ears (the only line where he ever said their ears were more 'pointed' and 'leaf-shaped' than human ears was from 1937/38 and can safely be rebuked). Ergo: Quendi do not have pointy ears in Tolkien's later writings including The Lord of the Rings. On the contrary, he meticulously stressed in his later philosophical writings that the difference between Quendi and Men was one of fate only, not of physiology.

05-30-2002, 01:50 PM	#36
Aramacil Wight Join Date: May 2002 Location: Holland Posts: 131	what would an elf be without his pointy ears? not much more than a normal human (with some extra powers) __________________ "I will take the Ring," he said, "though I do not know the way."

05-30-2002, 02:35 PM	#37
eleniwilwarin Animated Skeleton Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: sweden and Lothlòrien Posts: 36	i like elves wether they have pointy ears or not... [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img] i read the books not a long time ago and i could not see that they have pointy ears anywhere.... __________________ mi lóme mi minë siril, minë aure mi minë elen...

05-30-2002, 07:14 PM	#38
Lostgaeriel Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Toronto the Good Posts: 479	Thanks Sharku! I never imagined Elves looking any different than Men, except for being more beautiful and taller. Where did Tolkien describe Hobbit ears as 'slightly pointed'? Is that the extent of the description? When illustrating an event or character in a story, is the illustrator required to read every last word of every work by the author or is it enough to go by the information given in the story being illustrated? Oh, never mind. I guess I could avoid the issue entirely by just covering Merry's ear(s) with his hair or his helmet! [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img] Time to get on with it. __________________ Elen síla lúmenn’ omentielvo, a star shines on the hour of our meeting.