Pocketses

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

Think of what Gollum kept in his pockets: Fish-bones, goblins' teeth, and other nasty things.

But do pockets suggest decent clothes? Or at least clothes that were once in decent condition and must still, at least, work? In every artist's impression I've seen of Gollum, he has been covered by tattered rags. If his clothes were so tattered, then it's likely that the pockets would have torn and wouldn't function properly (that might be how he lost the Ring ). Maybe Gollum's clothes, though old and worn and extremely scruffy looking, yet resembled old Hobbit clothes.

Or am I missing a quote somewhere? I just find movie-Gollum's loincloth to be quite hard to believe.

[Morsul the Dark]

Well to tell you the truth 500 years is a long time for clothes to stay in tact also perhaps what he kept in his pockets were the "oddements he had on his little island as stated in the Hobbit

[Firefoot]

Maybe Gollum had some kind of belt that he kept lots of little pouches (pockets) on. That's what I've always thought.

[the guy who be short]

Maybe the "pockets" were part of his anatomy? I always thought "pockets" was a metaphor, and he kept those things behind his ears.

[Bêthberry]

Interestingly, when I saw The Hobbit produced on stage, (before any of the movies came out) the incredible actor/gymnast who played Gollem wore a greyish body suit without any insignia of hobbit clothes. (His performance was so marvellous that I'm afraid FX Gollem was a let down for me.)

I think in part the lack of clothing signifies how distant Gollem is from human/hobbit society. He has been thrown back to the most elemental aspects of hobbit nature, even eating raw fish (from a Western perspective). He has been shunned, has he not, forced outside the human community and seems even to be beyond the need for warmth or protective covering. Thrown back solely upon himself, he is almost animalistic.

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

My *counts backwards to first reading of The Hobbit* 12-year-old imagination provided me quite nicely with Gollum dressed in naught but a pair of truly rough looking breeches that he had swiped from something he ate.

What has our pantses got in its pocketses? The teeths from its former master. Gollum.

I didn't imagine a loin cloth until the movies came out, and even then, I wondered how that impressive little garment defied the laws of physics so admirably. Perhaps he had a pocket sewn onto his loin cloth? Or perhaps... *sprays imagination with Lysol* Yes... he had pants.

[mark12_30]

Ah, but he was living in the caves then. That was (lessee, 111 - 50) sixty one years ago? Sixty-one years of searching for his Preciousssss, wandering in all sorts of nasty places, being tormented by Sauron himself-- and then released, only to be captured (oh, the indignity) by Strider, and bound, gagged, and driven like a cur all the way to Lorien! Then he was interrogated by Gandalf for a WEEK(would you want to go through that?!?), guarded by the Mirkwood elves, captured by orcs and taken prisoner AGAIN-- til he finally escaped from them and went and hid in nice, cozy old Moria.

No wonder he only had a loincloth left.

[Bêthberry]

Look, you two, Fea and Helen, I think we should wait until at least the second page before we start undoing Eomer's upright effort to mount a credible thread. Especially since Estelyn is not currently here to move this to Mirth.

I for one shall wait until the second page before I offer my opinion on how BookGollem had learnt to weave sedges and grasses into a decent fashion statement.

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

Originally Posted by mark12_30

No wonder he only had a loincloth left.

Really mark, just what do you think Strider, Gandalf, and those Elves did to him during all that time?

Edit: cross-posted with Bethberry. *mischievous snicker*

[mark12_30]

Originally Posted by Feanor of the Peredhil

Really mark, just what do you think Strider, Gandalf, and those Elves did to him during all that time?

Edit: cross-posted with Bethberry. *mischievous snicker*

I suspect that Strider dragged him by the rope quite a bit. And while I doubt that Gandalf did anything to him, I suspect that Gollum thrtashed around quite a bit (grovelling as was his wont) trying to avoid Gandalf's fiery gaze. And the elves let him climb that tree; it's easy to tear fragile old clothes while climbing trees.

The real question, though, would be what the Dol Guldur orcs would have done to him. Since Sauron wasn't hoping that Gollum would have had the Ring by then, there probably wasn't a "no sport" rule. Poor Gollum.

As for this "Gollem" character that Bethberry is so fond of-- Bb sweetie, are you straying off topic? This Gollem fellow of yours can't even make the right gutteral swallowing noise...



ps. "STRING, OR NOTHING!!!"

[dancing spawn of ungoliant]

Edit: Lots of cross-posting. Could I possibly write any slower? Anyway, I'm trying to make a serious answere here, mind you...

Originally Posted by Feanor of the Peredhil

I didn't imagine a loin cloth until the movies came out, and even then, I wondered how that impressive little garment defied the laws of physics so admirably.

Ditto.

Year 2941, Third Age, Bilbo meets Gollum who definitely has pockets (can't give you the quote because I don't have the Hobbit in English).

78 years pass.

Year 3019, Frodo meets Gollum who (according to the films) is clad in a mere loincloth. Hardly any pockets there. I understand if Gollum's clothes wear out while he journeys to Mordor, gets tortured by Sauron's minions, is kept in captivity by the Elves, finally escapes and trails the Fellowship.

Originally Posted by Bb

I think in part the lack of clothing signifies how distant Gollem is from human/hobbit society. He has been thrown back to the most elemental aspects of hobbit nature, even eating raw fish (from a Western perspective). He has been shunned, has he not, forced outside the human community and seems even to be beyond the need for warmth or protective covering. Thrown back solely upon himself, he is almost animalistic.

I agree. Once we know the history behind Smeagol's transformation into Gollum, his poor clothing and addiction to raw diet add just a couple natural details to his character.

However, in the Hobbit Gollum is portrayed just as some weird creature who talks to himself because there isn't anyone else to talk to. He's quite an eccentric being but far from an animal with his boat, riddles and little treasures. At this point Tolkien says that it isn't known where Gollum came from and how he got the Ring. I believe that there wasn't any mention about his age, either (I'm not sure, though). In that sense I think it's interesting that many artists have made Gollum so primitive already in their works based on the Hobbit. For example, Look at John Howe's watercolour painting of Gollum. What a wretched creature he is and almost naked, even.

After reading LotR and learning how long Gollum had been an exile they can't be his old hobbit clothes that he is still wearing in 2941 (not to speak of year 3019). I think it's plausible that Gollum took his dinner's clothes and wore them - if they had enough pockets for his liking.

[Alcarillo]

It is possible that the elves gave him clothing during his captivity with them, but I think he would rip elven clothes off as though they were deadly. Gandalf or Aragorn could've also gave him clothes with pockets, but I expect that Gollum tore them as soon as he could.

Gollum's clothing has probably been scraped together from his meals and the peoples he's lived near: some goblin things, some items he stole, etc. Mostly scraps of cloth and rags sewn together somehow. (Could he have sewn clothing?) I've imagined Gollum as wearing very tattered clothes, tattered after all his travels, tattered enough for any pockets to be torn. But who knows? Tolkien never described Gollum's clothes, (I think, I haven't checked that thoroughly) so we must only speculate.

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

Maybe the Orcs ripped them to shreds in Mordor? Certainly Elves are nice towards their captives (Gloin was clearly just being obtuse at the Council) but Orcs are not.

[Morsul the Dark]

Originally Posted by Feanor of the Peredhil

My *counts backwards to first reading of The Hobbit* 12-year-old imagination provided me quite nicely with Gollum dressed in naught but a pair of truly rough looking breeches that he had swiped from something he ate.

What has our pantses got in its pocketses? The teeths from its former master. Gollum.

I didn't imagine a loin cloth until the movies came out, and even then, I wondered how that impressive little garment defied the laws of physics so admirably. Perhaps he had a pocket sewn onto his loin cloth? Or perhaps... *sprays imagination with Lysol* Yes... he had pants.

I think the loin cloth was merely to keep gollum "decent"
I think in actuallity he would wear orc-like cloths i doubt his own cloths would survive in caves especially considering the poor craftsman ship of early times and that they had to survive 500 years in terrible conditions. so I believe he would steal orc garments when he caught them to eat them. and also he would have whatever they had which i believe were the oddaments he kept on his island.

[Gurthang]

I've never really thought about it. Ironically, I just (like five minutes ago) saw a graphic novel of The Hobbit. In it, Gollum was wearing tattered breeches. It looked good and well in place.

And while you're discussing pants, how about explaining how he got a boat down into that undergound lake?

[Morsul the Dark]

well like this. what happened was when Gollum was done with the orcs he had bones and clothes...being skilled at making boats from his earlier life(one skill he kept) he fashioned a shabby boat...

or

the cavern was once a dwarven mine and they used boats to mines the walls near the lake which were mithril rich once upon a time

[the guy who be short]

"Boat" was a pretty way of writing "floating, partially decomposed orc corpse" of course. That would be quite handy really, it would come with inbuilt oars...

[Bêthberry]

Who would have thought that Gollem's clothes would be reduced to such a thread? or such tattered ideas?

[Elianna]

Ironic isn't it, Bb?

My only contribution is that if you look on I think it's his right hip, in the movie, Gollum has a small pocket in his loincloth. Not enough to hold fishes' bones, orc teeth, bat wing, the Ring, and other things, but a pocket nonetheless.

[SamwiseGamgee]

Firefoot, I like the idea of this 'utility belt'. You never know, maybe in the other compartments were exploding beads, a grappling hook and some bat discs?

Anywho, I side with the opinion that Gollum was probably a ragtag kind of figure, just a mix of old hobbit clothes, nicked goblin items and other such stuff.

Do you think this subject has the potential to be the next 'Do balrogs have wings?' debate. I certainly hope so! If so I want to put it down early, I definitely think Gollum had wings...um, I'm just confused now!

[Lalwendë]

Gollum must have worn something, as I'm sure the Ring wouldn't have given him protection from the cold too. Plus he was living on a diet of fish and meat so this would mean no carbs to keep him warm - he'd have been like a particularly ugly supermodel wandering about dithering in the cold without any breeks. If he was killing Orcses to eat while he lived under the Misty Mountains then I can imagine he'd keep their clothes, wear some and use the rest to form a little cosy nest on his island.

[Holbytlass]

Originally Posted by Lalwende

- he'd have been like a particularly ugly supermodel wandering about dithering in the cold without any breeks.

He was! Didn't you see his picture in Crazy Captions donning Lara Flynn Boyle's tutu outfit?

Originally Posted by Morsul the Dark

I think the loin cloth was merely to keep gollum "decent"

I agree with this, personally I think Gollum wore nothing at all. Years of caring for nothing but his precious and living in such a hostile environment I imagine his body to be very calloused. Even if his body felt cold, I think he didn't care or acknowledged the sensation.
Tolkien, being the storyteller, put him in clothes to make him decent.