Tol-in-Gaurhoth LI: The Pain of Wargs - Page 7 - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Thinlómien · 10-11-2008, 02:18 PM

Just to expand on what I just said, I feel we're badly on the wrong track like we've been this far. And now time's running out too... and I don't even know if voting Kath (which is what I feel like doing the most at the moment) is any wiser.

Brinniel · 10-11-2008, 02:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Legate

That's quite connected topic, too, and I would second this now. Actually, I have just skimmed through the earlier Days once again (it's called "cursoric reading"), if there are any particular things which would now bring my attention, especially concerning those who have slipped under my radar this far (i.e. Mith, Gwath, Kath, Di, Gaunt...). From those, I got a complex-ish picture of Gaunt as innocent-looking. Besides that, it's either grey zone (Gwathagor, and also Kath, whom I besides that dislike just because of her style of posting, which I a) can never decipher whether being wolfy or innocent, b) am just annoyed with because the posts appear just once a Day, but they are so long ) or too little to chew (Di), or too chaotic (Mithalwen).

Well, I think for most of these people it's due to RL. You know, not everyone has as much time as you do.

But of the quiet ones, I'm mostly worried about Di, Shasta and Gollum who have said so little I can't get any read from them.

From Mith, Kath, Gwath, and Gaunt I've heard enough to get at least some idea. Though I do wonder where Kath and Gaunt are...they didn't say a lot, but enough yesterDay...but toDay they have yet to show up at all...

Kath · 10-11-2008, 02:23 PM

Ah I'm so sorry! I've been having such a busy and fantastic time all day that I completely forgot about this!

Quick thoughts, based on it being Nogrod that died, are that either Lommy and or Legate are playing a blinder of a game and bluffing as hard as they can or someone is trying to set one of them up. Really don't know, except that due to me being suspicious of Legate yesterDay the former option strikes me as more likely.

Right I'm going to go and read through toDay and just try to get a few ideas. I'll be back with some thoughts and a vote soon.

Brinniel · 10-11-2008, 02:23 PM

Btw, I'm not gonna vote for a quieter player toDay. It's a good idea to keep an eye on them, but I want to actually take some time to examine them toMorrow rather than randomly vote for one of them toDay based on nothing...

EDIT: Oh good, Kath showed up.

Gollum the Great · 10-11-2008, 02:27 PM

Phew! I'm finally back!

I must admit that I'm surprised at how much Legate has been chasing after me (so to speak). All this "I can't get anything out of his votes so I'll keep up this Gollum topic" holds me amazed. Well I'm not going to suspect you for today (hahaha) but I think your overdoing it.

Innocentish:

Rune: he has (if I remember right) reasonable posts and find nothing particularly odd or suspicious about him.

Gwathagor: not much to base a suspicion on.

Mithalwen: see Gwath

Shasta: nothing to go by

Diamond: see above. Though I don't agree with her that the traitors are quiet.

Kath: for the reasons above.

Not so Innocent:

Legate: somewhat confusing posts. Not that he has been speaking in evil vein of me (if I use the expression correctly), but simply hounding on after anyone for half a long web page just looks like your trying to get others to follow you.

Brinniel: hard to explain. There's what seems an aura of queerness about her, so I have no grounds for a true suspicion.

Gaunt: hardly contibuted to the flow of discussion, and appeared to want both Nogrod and Groin out. Still, with so little evidence from him, I once again have nothing to really suspect.

Thinlomien: strange posts, it seemed to me, but if they were just to start the game going, then...

Have to vote now.

++Lommy

Legate of Amon Lanc · 10-11-2008, 02:27 PM

Well, tell me about a good voting situation...

Speaking of Shasta, now - has he been around AT ALL since some Day 1?!??

I was thinking about voting Brinniel, now, but this does not seem much like that could be done...

I am no way going to vote Rune, I still hold what I said, I think he is reasonable.

Hmph, whatever the course this village takes, I am quite discomforted...

Brinniel · 10-11-2008, 02:29 PM

Okay, I'm not gonna wait til the very last minute in case the mod's clock runs earlier than mine. So I will vote:

++Legate

For reasons I have stated earlier. There's just something sinister about him.

EDIT: X-ed with Legate

Legate of Amon Lanc · 10-11-2008, 02:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gollum the Great

I must admit that I'm surprised at how much Legate has been chasing after me (so to speak). All this "I can't get anything out of his votes so I'll keep up this Gollum topic" holds me amazed. Well I'm not going to suspect you for today (hahaha) but I think your overdoing it.

Okay, good master, but would you PLEASE AT LAST care to answer my question?!??? Why you voted Nogrod yesterday???

Kath · 10-11-2008, 02:34 PM

Hmm, so Legate starts off saying about the possibility that someone is trying to frame him AND Lommy. To be honest I think the Lovers idea is quite unlikely, but I think it possible that a guilty Legate might attach himself to an innocent Lommy in a 'who ... us?' kind of way.

Rune is being very vicious - particularly toward Mith. I wonder though whether he is simply trying to put her under pressure to see what she is.

Lommy, despite her efforts to paint me as a wolf, I think is posting quite innocently. In answer to a couple of her points against me, my Kitanna analysis was done in limited time, hence the confusion with what Nog and Legate said. Also, I think it was quite useful to see why Samwise was lynched, after all I'd missed much of the reasoning behind it so it was very useful to me.

So yeah:

++LEGATE

For the reasons from yesterDay and the fact that what I read of him from toDay made me no less suspicious.

Brinniel · 10-11-2008, 02:35 PM

Four minutes left...

Legate of Amon Lanc · 10-11-2008, 02:39 PM

Okay...

There seems to be the only option to save myself. Although she wasn't my prime suspect, maybe there is this Rune-theory which could be...

++Lommy

EDIT: x-ed since my last post... hmph...

Thinlómien · 10-11-2008, 02:40 PM

++Legate

Just to make sure no one who's late is going to kill me.

*sigh*

I doubt he is a wolf but we may hope the best...

Just now this village just strikes me as silly...

Legate of Amon Lanc · 10-11-2008, 02:41 PM

Okay people, as it seems unlikely that Lommy would vote herself, and nobody else is seemingly around, a few last words.

This game is horrible by the performance of the silent players. Some are not even around at all (Shasta). Nog should have been around. And despite what Brinn said about RL time, I also was busy during the week, but I tried to post and I think I did - at least somewhat. This is a game... not a place of empty silence.

EDIT: x-ed with Lommy.

Eomer of the Rohirrim · 10-11-2008, 02:43 PM

Voting is closed. Legate is to be lynched.

Eomer of the Rohirrim · 10-11-2008, 03:19 PM

The Wargs had become more vicious this day; resentment had flared up, caused by the murderers in their midst. Legate garnered more votes than any other, and it was decided that he should die. But as his would-be executioners rounded on him, a terrifying transformation occured. Legate writhed and twisted, and he grew to a great size; becoming a form mighty and magnificent, yet also dreadful; and such a look of wickedness was in his eyes as the Wargs had never before seen. This fearsome spectre stood poised, waiting for battle. The Wargs pounced upon him, and they fought a brutal exchange. The stranger was remarkably powerful, and even all the Wargs together were struggling with him, but then they heard a deep, booming laughter, and they stopped to look at where it had come from.

Brinniel had not yet joined proceedings. She stood there, her unnatural form trembling, as if about to burst. The demented gaze she sported was proof enough that she was no real Warg. She cast aside her skin, so it seemed, and grew into a figure so similar to what Legate had become.

It cried out: "Manwë! Thou hast tried to cripple the Wargs, but how it has turned out -- they have helped me cripple thee!"

And he flung himself at his foe, a devastating collision that rent a chasm in the middle of the ancient Wargish sanctuary. Manwë had time enough to cry "Melkor!" before their clash; afterward he shrieked, a sound so terrifying some Wargs threw themselves to the ground. And then he was gone.

Melkor danced to the top of a stone pillar, looked back at the Wargs and smirked. Some gave chase, but Melkor flew off the side of the hold, down into the valley, and disappeared victorious. He had achieved his goal.

The Wargs, bemused though they were, soon began to remember their old friends Legate and Brinniel, who had been murdered by the two mightiest beings in Arda mere hours ago.

---------------------------------------------

The Living

Thinlómien
Kath
Gwathagor
Shastanis Althreduin
Mithalwen
Diamond
Gollum The Great
Rune Son of Bjarne
Gaunt

The Dead

SamwiseGamgee (Guardian)
Kitanna (Warg)
Groin Redbeard (Warg)
Nogrod (Warg)
Legate of Amon Lanc (Manwë)

Victorious

Brinniel (Melkor)

Night 4 has begun. Villains, send me a name; Seer, send me a name.

Eomer of the Rohirrim · 10-12-2008, 02:40 PM

The Warg Elders were far too exhausted, after the bizarre happenings of the dusk, to look at the walls of Eomer. In truth, they missed nothing essential. They had done well to dispose of the master of the villains, he who had directed the slaughter of Wargs, including Legate of Amon Lanc -- the Warg whose form he had assumed. That despicable Manwë was ever cursed by Wargs after.

And Melkor too had been and gone, slaying Brinniel in the process, though aiding the Wargs in damaging Manwë so badly that he would never again be seen in Middle-earth. Their private war was not at an end, though it never again caught the Wargs so grievously. The Wargs knew now how the mighty thought of them.

In the morning, the Warg Elders found that more terrible things had happened: Rune Son of Bjarne had been slain, obviously with gruesome gusto. A blade was sticking through his heart, not quite obscuring the Wargish markings neath the fur on his chest: the markings were of ancient tradition in Warg magic, and their meaning was not lost on the Elders. Rune had been a Warg skilled in seeing the truth beyond the outer layer of beings of this Middle-earth; he had been one of their specially gifted: their Seer.

They later found the body of Shastanis Althreduin, who had not been seen for at least one day. He had not been murdered directly, but had indeed died of grief, at the realisation of the pain of Wargs.

---------------------------------------------

The Living

Thinlómien
Kath
Gwathagor
Mithalwen
Diamond
Gollum The Great
Gaunt

The Dead

SamwiseGamgee (Guardian)
Kitanna (Warg)
Groin Redbeard (Warg)
Nogrod (Warg)
Legate of Amon Lanc (Manwë)
Shastanis Althreduin (Warg)
Rune Son of Bjarne (Seer)

Victorious

Brinniel (Melkor)

-----------------------------------

Day 4 has begun.

Diamond18 · 10-12-2008, 03:36 PM

I may be particularly out of it, but I can't understand what exactly happened with Brinniel there. Did she die automatically because Legate was lynched? Does that make them some sort of "anti-lover" pair? Me not gets it.

With Rune gone this village seems doomed to debilitating silence. I'm one to talk, I know, and unfortunately I won't have time to remedy that completely. But I should be able to delay my vote to a wee bit closer to the deadline.

For now, it seems a closer read of Rune's posts are in order.

Thinlómien · 10-12-2008, 03:48 PM

So, our seer dead? Not nice, not at all. But at least so is one of the baddies. (And two extra casualties on our side - not good.)

Well, at least I know what to do. First I will look through Rune's posts and see who he might have dreamt of.

Then, I will reread yesterDay's narration. I'm rather puzzled as for what Legate actually was, and how was Brinniel related to that. It didn't look like Legate was an ordinary wolf. Maybe he was some kind of a werebear? (But that Brinn thing still looks weird to me.) And then lastly I will never even half-trust that Monsieur d'Amon Lanc again.

But even if it looks probable that he was something else than ordinary wolf, it makes sense to check if he has suspicious connections with anyone.

edit: xed with Di

Thinlómien · 10-12-2008, 04:30 PM

I think it's rather difficult to interpret Rune's posts. On Day2, his suspect list looked unseerish, but this was his list of people he won't vote:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rune

Groin: He has this air of innocens around him. . . It is not that I agree with him as such, but it is the fact that he does not seem the least bit manipulative.

Kath: It is annoying that she is not around, but I really want her around at least for another day.

Nogrod: Because he seem very Nogrod-ish and this normaly means he is innocent, but I am probably going to change my mind later in the game. . .I mean it is Nogrod.

Gaunt:I need more time to analyse

Lommy: A mixture of what I said about Nogrod and Gaunt.

This is what he said yesterDay:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rune

Maybe it is just the style that Mith plays that confuses me, she pops up a few times and with some small posts which are mostly uncontrovertial or at least in my view not really creating much of disciution. Anyways I will not be voting for her again today, that would not be fair unless somehthing major happens.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rune

People I am quite confident I will not vote for today:

Mith - I have voted for her two times now and even though I stand by my decision I think it would be unwise to vote for her at this point. . . For one she is gennerally regarded as innocent so it would be a waste of a vote, secondly it would not leave much of a pattern for people to analyse should I get killed. oh and also: It is very easy to become to focused on one individual and thus become blind to what others do, so yeah I do not think it would be wise to vote for her again today.

Kath - I really like Kath as a player. . .of course there are limmits to how long I can use this as an excuse for not suspecting her.
Maybe I should add Gaunt to that list.

Of course he said other stuff too, but these quotes stuck me as most important. None of his suspicions anywhere look seerish.

I think he dreamt of Mith on Night3. That would explain his reluctance to vote her again. Then he probably also dreamt of Kath... (which would mean I've once again been wrong about stuff

). Who was the third dream, then? I'd be inclined to say Groin, that "air of innocence" looks rather seerish. He could have dreamt of Gaunt too, but that seems less likely.

So, if we think he dreamt of Mith and Kath (and Groin), that leaves me, Diamond, Gwath, Gollum and Gaunt as possible wolves. How many are there supposed to be in there? At least one. Possibly two. Or even more, who knows. Anyway, right now I'm most suspicious of Gwath. Gollum looks a little fishy (haha, Gollum and fishes

) too. Diamond has managed to slip under my radar, and so has Gaunt, but some of his posts had an innocent feel.

Now, I'm off to reread that Legate-Brinn narration and have a quick look at Legate's posts.

Gwathagor · 10-12-2008, 05:31 PM

Not only did I defend Brinniel, who turned out to be Melkor (surprise!), but I also voted against our Seer. I look pretty dirty right now.

How many werewolves do we have now? I guess it has to be 3 or less, since there are only 7 players remaining, right? That doesn't seem to fit with the prophecy. But I guess we should just focus on trying to sift out one at a time.

Well - I've written all this and now I discover that I don't actually have anything useful to say...I guess I'll try to stop in and do some substantial analysis later this evening, or tomorrow afternoon.

I will say this. I'm sick of voting for obvious people that turn out to be good. At this point in time, the odds are good that I will go after somebody who's been quiet and unobtrusive, like Diamond or Gollum. Yeah, that's flawless logic for you.

Thinlómien · 10-12-2008, 05:38 PM

Okay, I don't really get that Legate-Brinn stuff.

And not much to say with Legate's connections to other people either. His interactions with Gwath look a little fishy though: Legate keeps supecting but not really suspecting Gwath and Gwath keeps trusting but not really trusting Legate, or really, it's not even that simply but it looks like an elaborate dance and slightly suspicious.

Legate and Gollum are interesting. I could see it all as constructed, or then Gollum is simply innocent. Hmm... really that last attack of Legate's could be seen as a wolf attacking a fellow and thus trying to make him look innocent when he knows he's going down...

YesterDay's voting, then...

Diamond voted him first. It looks pretty innocent, but the fact that she didn't give any grounds for her vote worries me.

Mith cast the second vote on him. There were no other votes that early. This would make me think Mith wasn't Legate's fellow even if there wasn't any Rune-evidence for her innocence.

Gwath voted Rune then. If he was Legate's fellow, would he have chosen someone less widely trusted?

Rune voted me.

Gollum voted me next, tying me with Legate. Now this makes me wonder, really...

Brinn voted Legate.

Kath voted Legate next. Either a smart fellow seeing he's dying already or an innocent. This vote was rather decisive, after all. I'm inclined to think Kath innocent just based on Rune's posts anyway.

Legate voted me.

I voted Legate.

Okay. If Legate had any fellows, I'd be looking most closely at Gollum, even though Gwath, Gaunt and Diamond could very well be ones too.

So, I'm afraid this all didn't make me much wiser...

edit: xed with Gwath

Thinlómien · 10-12-2008, 05:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gwathagor

Not only did I defend Brinniel, who turned out to be Melkor (surprise!), but I also voted against our Seer. I look pretty dirty right now.

But if she was Melkor, wasn't she kind of on our side? I got that picture at last... And btw if it was anyone else that said something like this I'd be raising my eyebrows at the jumpinessbut suspicious comments like this are very gwathistic...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gwath

But I guess we should just focus on trying to sift out one at a time.

Agreed.

Gollum the Great · 10-12-2008, 06:20 PM

Hmm. With Rune, Legate, and Brinniel gone I have the idea Lommy is the only one who will keep up a steady flow of conersation.

This situation is horrible. I can't justify accusing most of the remaining party because of the almost total lack of evidence of any kind, except simply being quiet, like Gaunt, but then so have I been a silentish sort of player.

To another topic, I was first chased around by Legate, and now Lommy has chosen me for a target. Knowing now who Legate was, I am tending towards considering Lommy a traitor. Of course, I may be wrong and I am not making a decision off of so slim evidence as that, but I am watching Lommy.

Thinlómien · 10-12-2008, 06:44 PM

So, Gollum, you first mourn that everybody is too quiet and then suggest lynching someone who is according to your own words the only one who will keep up the conversation? Great logic.

I don't really understand this village and to be honest, I'm even annoyed with it. (This is not especially for you, Golly, so don't take this as a personal attack.) All the Days, only the actions of the loud players are discussed. Then, every Day, a loud player is lynched and with the exception of Legate, they've all been innocent. Then, the village just always picks a new loudmouth to lynch. On top of that, the cowardly wolves keep taking down loudmouth people as well.

Is this supposed to be a good game? A bunch of people who say nothing and just get rid of the few ones who bother to commit time to actually doing stuff.

Not very enjoyable in my opinion. You might as well lynch me next, would fit the pattern nicely, wouldn't it? And would be just as useful as most of the other lynches. And you wouldn't have to bother with anyone actually talking and urging people to post. And I wouldn't have to get frustrated. Wouldn't that make everybody happy?

Okay, I know I'm generalising and not being fair, but I really don't like this "pop in once a day and make two or three posts" tactics because it makes discussion very difficult and what I like even less that this village is so stupidly centered on loudmouths that they wouldn't notice if the silent slip-under-the-radar wolves were doing pirouettes and blowing up bombs in their shady corners.

Gollum the Great · 10-12-2008, 07:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thinlómien

So, Gollum, you first mourn that everybody is too quiet and then suggest lynching someone who is according to your own words the only one who will keep up the conversation? Great logic..

Are you just trying to protect yourself? I mean, if we kill you, all we'll be short on will be a one-sided conversation.

Thinlómien · 10-12-2008, 07:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gollum the Great

I mean, if we kill you, all we'll be short on will be a one-sided conversation.

Obviously. So just kill me and get rid of it.

But really, I feel this village is being rather unconstructive. I bet the wolves are going to win this game.

Gollum the Great · 10-12-2008, 07:15 PM

Oh yeah. We'd also be missing another player. Must have overlooked that temporarily.

Thinlómien · 10-12-2008, 07:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gollum the Great

Oh yeah. We'd also be missing another player. Must have overlooked that temporarily.

Yes, surprising, isn't it? About as surprising as the fact we're going to miss another player anyway after today...

Gollum the Great · 10-12-2008, 07:29 PM

Ok. We're not getting anything done, and this may be the last time I post for several hours.

I believe innocent:

Kath
Mith
Diamond

Not sure:

Gwath
Lommy
Gaunt

Have fun.

Diamond18 · 10-12-2008, 08:54 PM

Well I can sort of feel your frustration Lommy, but speaking as one of the quiet ones, it's merely "real life" getting in my way -- I've had barely any time to read through the posts and once I've done that (and been forced to skim some of the longer ones) I have no time left to write lengthly well-thought out posts of my own. It's unfortunate but then we just have to play at the level we're capable of at any given time. In fact the quieter the village gets the easier it is for me to actually participate.

That said I do agree that it's somewhat silly for only loud players to be getting lynched. Wolves (or whatever the "bad guys" are in this game) are just as susceptible to real life induced time constraints, etc., so the probability of the foes in this village hiding among the silent is really very high.

Based on voting patterns yesterday I'm leaning towards Gwath or Gollum. Then there's Gaunt, who could be the perfect newbie-submarine-combo-of-doom. I will probably vote for one of those.

Gwathagor · 10-12-2008, 10:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thinlómien

But if she was Melkor, wasn't she kind of on our side? I got that picture at last...

Oh. I guess we are Wargs. I just saw "Melkor" and I thought "Ah ha, he's bad. I'm a dummy." I hope you're right, but I'm not going to worry about it too much at this point, since they're both dead - or gone anyway.

Gwathagor · 10-12-2008, 10:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eomer of the Rohirrim

It cried out: "Manwë! Thou hast tried to cripple the Wargs, but how it has turned out -- they have helped me cripple thee!"

Based on this, I think you're right about Melkor, Lommy.

And if that's the case (that Legate was bad), then Gollum has an interesting point here:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gollum the Great

To another topic, I was first chased around by Legate, and now Lommy has chosen me for a target. Knowing now who Legate was, I am tending towards considering Lommy a traitor. Of course, I may be wrong and I am not making a decision off of so slim evidence as that, but I am watching Lommy.

If Legate went after Gollum (did he? Someone should check...), then it's probably safe to bet that Gollum isn't a traitor. If.

Gaunt · 10-13-2008, 04:11 AM

Hello all,

Apologies for my recent lack of participation, I have been in the process of moving into a new flat and haven't been able to get on a computer.

And a lot has happened since I last posted.

I must say I don't really understand this Melkor-Manwe thing, although obviously Melkor was pro-warg.

As for Shasta dying of grief at the realisation of the pain of wargs, I don't really get that either.

At the moment I am inclined towards voting for Gollum, basically because there have been vague suspicions directed at him for a while now.

Hopefully I can come up with better justification (or even a different vote altogether) on further reading.

Mithalwen · 10-13-2008, 05:53 AM

Hi I am here and will be around a lot more later. Still trying to get my head around this but my instincts are at least holding true. I think Shasta was surely modfired?

Gaunt · 10-13-2008, 06:18 AM

Is it likely that the pairs of werewolves mentioned in Eomer's prophecy are meant to describe competing pairs of werewolves? I.e. It was Melkor's mission to kill Manwe and vice versa, and that when Legate (Manwe) was lynched by the Warg vote Brinniel's mission as Melkor was complete so she left the game.

I have no experience of this game to go on, so I don't know if scenarios like this have happened before.

Gaunt · 10-13-2008, 06:26 AM

And if the above is the case, is it not possible that legate went after Gollum thinking he was Melkor?

Mithalwen · 10-13-2008, 06:28 AM

There have been unusual variants but I am afraid I don't often have time to follow the games I haven't played but I don't think something quite like that has happened. A weid variant on lovers (maybe Noggin was on the money for once!). However how was the kill decided I wonder... and where do we go from here?

Mithalwen · 10-13-2008, 06:32 AM

And Eomer asked the villains to send a name. So we don't have a lot of scope for making errors. We have lost the main enemy but at least 2 remain. And we have lost both our gifted.

Gaunt · 10-13-2008, 07:07 AM

Reading over Eomer's prophecies, I think there were two original werewolves, who were joined on the third night by Manwe (Legate) and Brinniel (Melkor). I'm not sure what the exact roles of Melkor and Manwe were - would Manwe have been able to kill as a werewolf had not Melkor successfully assisted in having him voted off?

No matter. If this was the case, then are two werewolves working together left.

So:

night 2: Samwise lynched, Kitanna killed by werewolves

night 3: Groin Redbeard lynched, Nogrod killed by werewolves

night 4: Legate (Manwe) lynched, Rune killed by werewolves, Shasta dies for reasons unknown, possibly by the moderator.

Gaunt · 10-13-2008, 07:18 AM

I think the wolf kills on night 3 and 4 can be explained, but I still wasn't sure about Kitanna. Looking back, at one stage she suspected Samwise, Gollum and Gwath, but voted for Kath.

I wonder then if the two wolves are some combination of Gwath, Gollum and Kath?

Assuming Gollum is one (not that I necessarily am assuming that), then his recent list of remaining players that he thought were innocent and guilty would suggest that he and Kath are the wolves, because he listed Kath as probably innocent and Gwath as potentially suspicious. Unless it is some sort of bluff.

10-11-2008, 02:18 PM	#241
Thinlómien Shady She-Penguin Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: In a far land beyond the Sea Posts: 8,385	Just to expand on what I just said, I feel we're badly on the wrong track like we've been this far. And now time's running out too... and I don't even know if voting Kath (which is what I feel like doing the most at the moment) is any wiser. __________________ Like the stars chase the sun, over the glowing hill I will conquer Blood is running deep, some things never sleep Double Fenris

10-11-2008, 02:23 PM	#243
Kath Everlasting Whiteness Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Perusing the laminated book of dreams Posts: 4,725	Ah I'm so sorry! I've been having such a busy and fantastic time all day that I completely forgot about this! Quick thoughts, based on it being Nogrod that died, are that either Lommy and or Legate are playing a blinder of a game and bluffing as hard as they can or someone is trying to set one of them up. Really don't know, except that due to me being suspicious of Legate yesterDay the former option strikes me as more likely. Right I'm going to go and read through toDay and just try to get a few ideas. I'll be back with some thoughts and a vote soon. __________________ “If more of us valued food and cheer and song above hoarded gold, it would be a merrier world.”

10-11-2008, 02:23 PM	#244
Brinniel Reflection of Darkness Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Polishing the stars. Well, somebody has to do it; they're looking a little bit dull. Posts: 3,027	Btw, I'm not gonna vote for a quieter player toDay. It's a good idea to keep an eye on them, but I want to actually take some time to examine them toMorrow rather than randomly vote for one of them toDay based on nothing... EDIT: Oh good, Kath showed up. __________________ Nolite te bastardes carborundorum

10-11-2008, 02:27 PM	#245
Gollum the Great Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: The Pinnacle of my own might Posts: 403	Phew! I'm finally back! I must admit that I'm surprised at how much Legate has been chasing after me (so to speak). All this "I can't get anything out of his votes so I'll keep up this Gollum topic" holds me amazed. Well I'm not going to suspect you for today (hahaha) but I think your overdoing it. Innocentish: Rune: he has (if I remember right) reasonable posts and find nothing particularly odd or suspicious about him. Gwathagor: not much to base a suspicion on. Mithalwen: see Gwath Shasta: nothing to go by Diamond: see above. Though I don't agree with her that the traitors are quiet. Kath: for the reasons above. Not so Innocent: Legate: somewhat confusing posts. Not that he has been speaking in evil vein of me (if I use the expression correctly), but simply hounding on after anyone for half a long web page just looks like your trying to get others to follow you. Brinniel: hard to explain. There's what seems an aura of queerness about her, so I have no grounds for a true suspicion. Gaunt: hardly contibuted to the flow of discussion, and appeared to want both Nogrod and Groin out. Still, with so little evidence from him, I once again have nothing to really suspect. Thinlomien: strange posts, it seemed to me, but if they were just to start the game going, then... Have to vote now. ++Lommy __________________ 'It just shows you how true it is that one-half the world doesn't knows how the other three-quarters lives.' Bertie, The Code of the Woosters, by P. G. Wodewouse

10-11-2008, 02:27 PM	#246
Legate of Amon Lanc A Voice That Gainsayeth Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: In that far land beyond the Sea Posts: 7,606	Well, tell me about a good voting situation... Speaking of Shasta, now - has he been around AT ALL since some Day 1?!?? I was thinking about voting Brinniel, now, but this does not seem much like that could be done... I am no way going to vote Rune, I still hold what I said, I think he is reasonable. Hmph, whatever the course this village takes, I am quite discomforted... __________________ "Should the story say 'he ate bread,' the dramatic producer can only show 'a piece of bread' according to his taste or fancy, but the hearer of the story will think of bread in general and picture it in some form of his own." -On Fairy-Stories

10-11-2008, 02:29 PM	#247
Brinniel Reflection of Darkness Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Polishing the stars. Well, somebody has to do it; they're looking a little bit dull. Posts: 3,027	Okay, I'm not gonna wait til the very last minute in case the mod's clock runs earlier than mine. So I will vote: ++Legate For reasons I have stated earlier. There's just something sinister about him. EDIT: X-ed with Legate __________________ Nolite te bastardes carborundorum

10-11-2008, 02:34 PM	#249
Kath Everlasting Whiteness Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Perusing the laminated book of dreams Posts: 4,725	Hmm, so Legate starts off saying about the possibility that someone is trying to frame him AND Lommy. To be honest I think the Lovers idea is quite unlikely, but I think it possible that a guilty Legate might attach himself to an innocent Lommy in a 'who ... us?' kind of way. Rune is being very vicious - particularly toward Mith. I wonder though whether he is simply trying to put her under pressure to see what she is. Lommy, despite her efforts to paint me as a wolf, I think is posting quite innocently. In answer to a couple of her points against me, my Kitanna analysis was done in limited time, hence the confusion with what Nog and Legate said. Also, I think it was quite useful to see why Samwise was lynched, after all I'd missed much of the reasoning behind it so it was very useful to me. So yeah: ++LEGATE For the reasons from yesterDay and the fact that what I read of him from toDay made me no less suspicious. __________________ “If more of us valued food and cheer and song above hoarded gold, it would be a merrier world.”

10-11-2008, 02:35 PM	#250
Brinniel Reflection of Darkness Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Polishing the stars. Well, somebody has to do it; they're looking a little bit dull. Posts: 3,027	Four minutes left... __________________ Nolite te bastardes carborundorum

10-11-2008, 02:39 PM	#251
Legate of Amon Lanc A Voice That Gainsayeth Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: In that far land beyond the Sea Posts: 7,606	Okay... There seems to be the only option to save myself. Although she wasn't my prime suspect, maybe there is this Rune-theory which could be... ++Lommy EDIT: x-ed since my last post... hmph... __________________ "Should the story say 'he ate bread,' the dramatic producer can only show 'a piece of bread' according to his taste or fancy, but the hearer of the story will think of bread in general and picture it in some form of his own." -On Fairy-Stories

10-11-2008, 02:40 PM	#252
Thinlómien Shady She-Penguin Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: In a far land beyond the Sea Posts: 8,385	++Legate Just to make sure no one who's late is going to kill me. sigh I doubt he is a wolf but we may hope the best... Just now this village just strikes me as silly... __________________ Like the stars chase the sun, over the glowing hill I will conquer Blood is running deep, some things never sleep Double Fenris

10-11-2008, 02:41 PM	#253
Legate of Amon Lanc A Voice That Gainsayeth Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: In that far land beyond the Sea Posts: 7,606	Okay people, as it seems unlikely that Lommy would vote herself, and nobody else is seemingly around, a few last words. This game is horrible by the performance of the silent players. Some are not even around at all (Shasta). Nog should have been around. And despite what Brinn said about RL time, I also was busy during the week, but I tried to post and I think I did - at least somewhat. This is a game... not a place of empty silence. EDIT: x-ed with Lommy. __________________ "Should the story say 'he ate bread,' the dramatic producer can only show 'a piece of bread' according to his taste or fancy, but the hearer of the story will think of bread in general and picture it in some form of his own." -On Fairy-Stories

10-11-2008, 02:43 PM	#254
Eomer of the Rohirrim Auspicious Wraith Join Date: May 2002 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 4,992	Voting is closed. Legate is to be lynched. __________________ Los Ingobernables de Harlond

10-11-2008, 03:19 PM	#255
Eomer of the Rohirrim Auspicious Wraith Join Date: May 2002 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 4,992	The Wargs had become more vicious this day; resentment had flared up, caused by the murderers in their midst. Legate garnered more votes than any other, and it was decided that he should die. But as his would-be executioners rounded on him, a terrifying transformation occured. Legate writhed and twisted, and he grew to a great size; becoming a form mighty and magnificent, yet also dreadful; and such a look of wickedness was in his eyes as the Wargs had never before seen. This fearsome spectre stood poised, waiting for battle. The Wargs pounced upon him, and they fought a brutal exchange. The stranger was remarkably powerful, and even all the Wargs together were struggling with him, but then they heard a deep, booming laughter, and they stopped to look at where it had come from. Brinniel had not yet joined proceedings. She stood there, her unnatural form trembling, as if about to burst. The demented gaze she sported was proof enough that she was no real Warg. She cast aside her skin, so it seemed, and grew into a figure so similar to what Legate had become. It cried out: "Manwë! Thou hast tried to cripple the Wargs, but how it has turned out -- they have helped me cripple thee!" And he flung himself at his foe, a devastating collision that rent a chasm in the middle of the ancient Wargish sanctuary. Manwë had time enough to cry "Melkor!" before their clash; afterward he shrieked, a sound so terrifying some Wargs threw themselves to the ground. And then he was gone. Melkor danced to the top of a stone pillar, looked back at the Wargs and smirked. Some gave chase, but Melkor flew off the side of the hold, down into the valley, and disappeared victorious. He had achieved his goal. The Wargs, bemused though they were, soon began to remember their old friends Legate and Brinniel, who had been murdered by the two mightiest beings in Arda mere hours ago. --------------------------------------------- The Living Thinlómien Kath Gwathagor Shastanis Althreduin Mithalwen Diamond Gollum The Great Rune Son of Bjarne Gaunt The Dead SamwiseGamgee (Guardian) Kitanna (Warg) Groin Redbeard (Warg) Nogrod (Warg) Legate of Amon Lanc (Manwë) Victorious Brinniel (Melkor) Night 4 has begun. Villains, send me a name; Seer, send me a name. __________________ Los Ingobernables de Harlond

10-12-2008, 02:40 PM	#256
Eomer of the Rohirrim Auspicious Wraith Join Date: May 2002 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 4,992	The Warg Elders were far too exhausted, after the bizarre happenings of the dusk, to look at the walls of Eomer. In truth, they missed nothing essential. They had done well to dispose of the master of the villains, he who had directed the slaughter of Wargs, including Legate of Amon Lanc -- the Warg whose form he had assumed. That despicable Manwë was ever cursed by Wargs after. And Melkor too had been and gone, slaying Brinniel in the process, though aiding the Wargs in damaging Manwë so badly that he would never again be seen in Middle-earth. Their private war was not at an end, though it never again caught the Wargs so grievously. The Wargs knew now how the mighty thought of them. In the morning, the Warg Elders found that more terrible things had happened: Rune Son of Bjarne had been slain, obviously with gruesome gusto. A blade was sticking through his heart, not quite obscuring the Wargish markings neath the fur on his chest: the markings were of ancient tradition in Warg magic, and their meaning was not lost on the Elders. Rune had been a Warg skilled in seeing the truth beyond the outer layer of beings of this Middle-earth; he had been one of their specially gifted: their Seer. They later found the body of Shastanis Althreduin, who had not been seen for at least one day. He had not been murdered directly, but had indeed died of grief, at the realisation of the pain of Wargs. --------------------------------------------- The Living Thinlómien Kath Gwathagor Mithalwen Diamond Gollum The Great Gaunt The Dead SamwiseGamgee (Guardian) Kitanna (Warg) Groin Redbeard (Warg) Nogrod (Warg) Legate of Amon Lanc (Manwë) Shastanis Althreduin (Warg) Rune Son of Bjarne (Seer) Victorious Brinniel (Melkor) ----------------------------------- Day 4 has begun. __________________ Los Ingobernables de Harlond

10-12-2008, 03:36 PM	#257
Diamond18 Eidolon of a Took Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: my own private fantasy world Posts: 3,561	I may be particularly out of it, but I can't understand what exactly happened with Brinniel there. Did she die automatically because Legate was lynched? Does that make them some sort of "anti-lover" pair? Me not gets it. With Rune gone this village seems doomed to debilitating silence. I'm one to talk, I know, and unfortunately I won't have time to remedy that completely. But I should be able to delay my vote to a wee bit closer to the deadline. For now, it seems a closer read of Rune's posts are in order. __________________ All shall be rather fond of me and suffer from mild depression.

10-12-2008, 03:48 PM	#258
Thinlómien Shady She-Penguin Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: In a far land beyond the Sea Posts: 8,385	So, our seer dead? Not nice, not at all. But at least so is one of the baddies. (And two extra casualties on our side - not good.) Well, at least I know what to do. First I will look through Rune's posts and see who he might have dreamt of. Then, I will reread yesterDay's narration. I'm rather puzzled as for what Legate actually was, and how was Brinniel related to that. It didn't look like Legate was an ordinary wolf. Maybe he was some kind of a werebear? (But that Brinn thing still looks weird to me.) And then lastly I will never even half-trust that Monsieur d'Amon Lanc again. But even if it looks probable that he was something else than ordinary wolf, it makes sense to check if he has suspicious connections with anyone. edit: xed with Di __________________ Like the stars chase the sun, over the glowing hill I will conquer Blood is running deep, some things never sleep Double Fenris

10-12-2008, 05:31 PM	#260
Gwathagor Shade with a Blade Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: A Rainy Night In Soho Posts: 2,613	Not only did I defend Brinniel, who turned out to be Melkor (surprise!), but I also voted against our Seer. I look pretty dirty right now. How many werewolves do we have now? I guess it has to be 3 or less, since there are only 7 players remaining, right? That doesn't seem to fit with the prophecy. But I guess we should just focus on trying to sift out one at a time. Well - I've written all this and now I discover that I don't actually have anything useful to say...I guess I'll try to stop in and do some substantial analysis later this evening, or tomorrow afternoon. I will say this. I'm sick of voting for obvious people that turn out to be good. At this point in time, the odds are good that I will go after somebody who's been quiet and unobtrusive, like Diamond or Gollum. Yeah, that's flawless logic for you. __________________ Stories and songs. Last edited by Gwathagor; 10-12-2008 at 05:35 PM.

10-12-2008, 05:38 PM	#261
Thinlómien Shady She-Penguin Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: In a far land beyond the Sea Posts: 8,385	Okay, I don't really get that Legate-Brinn stuff. And not much to say with Legate's connections to other people either. His interactions with Gwath look a little fishy though: Legate keeps supecting but not really suspecting Gwath and Gwath keeps trusting but not really trusting Legate, or really, it's not even that simply but it looks like an elaborate dance and slightly suspicious. Legate and Gollum are interesting. I could see it all as constructed, or then Gollum is simply innocent. Hmm... really that last attack of Legate's could be seen as a wolf attacking a fellow and thus trying to make him look innocent when he knows he's going down... YesterDay's voting, then... Diamond voted him first. It looks pretty innocent, but the fact that she didn't give any grounds for her vote worries me. Mith cast the second vote on him. There were no other votes that early. This would make me think Mith wasn't Legate's fellow even if there wasn't any Rune-evidence for her innocence. Gwath voted Rune then. If he was Legate's fellow, would he have chosen someone less widely trusted? Rune voted me. Gollum voted me next, tying me with Legate. Now this makes me wonder, really... Brinn voted Legate. Kath voted Legate next. Either a smart fellow seeing he's dying already or an innocent. This vote was rather decisive, after all. I'm inclined to think Kath innocent just based on Rune's posts anyway. Legate voted me. I voted Legate. Okay. If Legate had any fellows, I'd be looking most closely at Gollum, even though Gwath, Gaunt and Diamond could very well be ones too. So, I'm afraid this all didn't make me much wiser... edit: xed with Gwath __________________ Like the stars chase the sun, over the glowing hill I will conquer Blood is running deep, some things never sleep Double Fenris

10-12-2008, 06:20 PM	#263
Gollum the Great Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: The Pinnacle of my own might Posts: 403	Hmm. With Rune, Legate, and Brinniel gone I have the idea Lommy is the only one who will keep up a steady flow of conersation. This situation is horrible. I can't justify accusing most of the remaining party because of the almost total lack of evidence of any kind, except simply being quiet, like Gaunt, but then so have I been a silentish sort of player. To another topic, I was first chased around by Legate, and now Lommy has chosen me for a target. Knowing now who Legate was, I am tending towards considering Lommy a traitor. Of course, I may be wrong and I am not making a decision off of so slim evidence as that, but I am watching Lommy. __________________ 'It just shows you how true it is that one-half the world doesn't knows how the other three-quarters lives.' Bertie, The Code of the Woosters, by P. G. Wodewouse

10-12-2008, 06:44 PM	#264
Thinlómien Shady She-Penguin Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: In a far land beyond the Sea Posts: 8,385	So, Gollum, you first mourn that everybody is too quiet and then suggest lynching someone who is according to your own words the only one who will keep up the conversation? Great logic. I don't really understand this village and to be honest, I'm even annoyed with it. (This is not especially for you, Golly, so don't take this as a personal attack.) All the Days, only the actions of the loud players are discussed. Then, every Day, a loud player is lynched and with the exception of Legate, they've all been innocent. Then, the village just always picks a new loudmouth to lynch. On top of that, the cowardly wolves keep taking down loudmouth people as well. Is this supposed to be a good game? A bunch of people who say nothing and just get rid of the few ones who bother to commit time to actually doing stuff. Not very enjoyable in my opinion. You might as well lynch me next, would fit the pattern nicely, wouldn't it? And would be just as useful as most of the other lynches. And you wouldn't have to bother with anyone actually talking and urging people to post. And I wouldn't have to get frustrated. Wouldn't that make everybody happy? Okay, I know I'm generalising and not being fair, but I really don't like this "pop in once a day and make two or three posts" tactics because it makes discussion very difficult and what I like even less that this village is so stupidly centered on loudmouths that they wouldn't notice if the silent slip-under-the-radar wolves were doing pirouettes and blowing up bombs in their shady corners. __________________ Like the stars chase the sun, over the glowing hill I will conquer Blood is running deep, some things never sleep Double Fenris

10-12-2008, 07:15 PM	#267
Gollum the Great Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: The Pinnacle of my own might Posts: 403	Oh yeah. We'd also be missing another player. Must have overlooked that temporarily. __________________ 'It just shows you how true it is that one-half the world doesn't knows how the other three-quarters lives.' Bertie, The Code of the Woosters, by P. G. Wodewouse

10-12-2008, 07:29 PM	#269
Gollum the Great Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: The Pinnacle of my own might Posts: 403	Ok. We're not getting anything done, and this may be the last time I post for several hours. I believe innocent: Kath Mith Diamond Not sure: Gwath Lommy Gaunt Have fun. __________________ 'It just shows you how true it is that one-half the world doesn't knows how the other three-quarters lives.' Bertie, The Code of the Woosters, by P. G. Wodewouse

10-12-2008, 08:54 PM	#270
Diamond18 Eidolon of a Took Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: my own private fantasy world Posts: 3,561	Well I can sort of feel your frustration Lommy, but speaking as one of the quiet ones, it's merely "real life" getting in my way -- I've had barely any time to read through the posts and once I've done that (and been forced to skim some of the longer ones) I have no time left to write lengthly well-thought out posts of my own. It's unfortunate but then we just have to play at the level we're capable of at any given time. In fact the quieter the village gets the easier it is for me to actually participate. That said I do agree that it's somewhat silly for only loud players to be getting lynched. Wolves (or whatever the "bad guys" are in this game) are just as susceptible to real life induced time constraints, etc., so the probability of the foes in this village hiding among the silent is really very high. Based on voting patterns yesterday I'm leaning towards Gwath or Gollum. Then there's Gaunt, who could be the perfect newbie-submarine-combo-of-doom. I will probably vote for one of those. __________________ All shall be rather fond of me and suffer from mild depression.

10-13-2008, 04:11 AM	#273
Gaunt Animated Skeleton Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: The bleak splendour of the north. Ok, Aberdeen. Posts: 28	Hello all, Apologies for my recent lack of participation, I have been in the process of moving into a new flat and haven't been able to get on a computer. And a lot has happened since I last posted. I must say I don't really understand this Melkor-Manwe thing, although obviously Melkor was pro-warg. As for Shasta dying of grief at the realisation of the pain of wargs, I don't really get that either. At the moment I am inclined towards voting for Gollum, basically because there have been vague suspicions directed at him for a while now. Hopefully I can come up with better justification (or even a different vote altogether) on further reading.

10-13-2008, 05:53 AM	#274
Mithalwen Pilgrim Soul Join Date: May 2004 Location: watching the wonga-wonga birds circle... Posts: 9,916	Hi I am here and will be around a lot more later. Still trying to get my head around this but my instincts are at least holding true. I think Shasta was surely modfired? __________________ “But Finrod walks with Finarfin his father beneath the trees in Eldamar.” Christopher Tolkien, Requiescat in pace

10-13-2008, 06:18 AM	#275
Gaunt Animated Skeleton Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: The bleak splendour of the north. Ok, Aberdeen. Posts: 28	Is it likely that the pairs of werewolves mentioned in Eomer's prophecy are meant to describe competing pairs of werewolves? I.e. It was Melkor's mission to kill Manwe and vice versa, and that when Legate (Manwe) was lynched by the Warg vote Brinniel's mission as Melkor was complete so she left the game. I have no experience of this game to go on, so I don't know if scenarios like this have happened before.

10-13-2008, 06:26 AM	#276
Gaunt Animated Skeleton Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: The bleak splendour of the north. Ok, Aberdeen. Posts: 28	And if the above is the case, is it not possible that legate went after Gollum thinking he was Melkor?

10-13-2008, 06:28 AM	#277
Mithalwen Pilgrim Soul Join Date: May 2004 Location: watching the wonga-wonga birds circle... Posts: 9,916	There have been unusual variants but I am afraid I don't often have time to follow the games I haven't played but I don't think something quite like that has happened. A weid variant on lovers (maybe Noggin was on the money for once!). However how was the kill decided I wonder... and where do we go from here? __________________ “But Finrod walks with Finarfin his father beneath the trees in Eldamar.” Christopher Tolkien, Requiescat in pace

10-13-2008, 06:32 AM	#278
Mithalwen Pilgrim Soul Join Date: May 2004 Location: watching the wonga-wonga birds circle... Posts: 9,916	And Eomer asked the villains to send a name. So we don't have a lot of scope for making errors. We have lost the main enemy but at least 2 remain. And we have lost both our gifted. __________________ “But Finrod walks with Finarfin his father beneath the trees in Eldamar.” Christopher Tolkien, Requiescat in pace

10-13-2008, 07:07 AM	#279
Gaunt Animated Skeleton Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: The bleak splendour of the north. Ok, Aberdeen. Posts: 28	Reading over Eomer's prophecies, I think there were two original werewolves, who were joined on the third night by Manwe (Legate) and Brinniel (Melkor). I'm not sure what the exact roles of Melkor and Manwe were - would Manwe have been able to kill as a werewolf had not Melkor successfully assisted in having him voted off? No matter. If this was the case, then are two werewolves working together left. So: night 2: Samwise lynched, Kitanna killed by werewolves night 3: Groin Redbeard lynched, Nogrod killed by werewolves night 4: Legate (Manwe) lynched, Rune killed by werewolves, Shasta dies for reasons unknown, possibly by the moderator. Last edited by Gaunt; 10-13-2008 at 07:20 AM. Reason: repetition

10-13-2008, 07:18 AM	#280
Gaunt Animated Skeleton Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: The bleak splendour of the north. Ok, Aberdeen. Posts: 28	I think the wolf kills on night 3 and 4 can be explained, but I still wasn't sure about Kitanna. Looking back, at one stage she suspected Samwise, Gollum and Gwath, but voted for Kath. I wonder then if the two wolves are some combination of Gwath, Gollum and Kath? Assuming Gollum is one (not that I necessarily am assuming that), then his recent list of remaining players that he thought were innocent and guilty would suggest that he and Kath are the wolves, because he listed Kath as probably innocent and Gwath as potentially suspicious. Unless it is some sort of bluff. Last edited by Gaunt; 10-13-2008 at 07:44 AM.